[Verdi]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I believe we are there already:
- Model S for "premium" EV buyers
- Everything else for "budget" category.

Sadly, i3 is neither here, nor there.

It's priced as "premium" EV, but its sub-sub-compact size and range belongs squarely in the "budget" category.
Even there, it is becoming less and less competitive, as other "budget" offerings are coming out with longer range and better acceleration (Bolt later this year, Model 3 early next year).

Tesla is something else. It's not for car lovers. It's for the rich progressive guys who loves Apple and had a crush on Steve Jobs. Now Elon Musk is their new hero.

It's not as small as you think. I'm a tall guy and I can easily fit in the back seat. The luggage space is also quite big and practical with the big opening.

In Sweden the i3 is less than half the price of the Model S. You can get one with almost all options for $46k. A Model S is like $125k. And since our currency has lost like 48% to the USD in 3 years it makes the Tesla super expensive.

My monthly cost for the i3 is on par with a used car in the $15k-$20k bracket. Around $500 a month. Or even less. Yes, a Nissan Leaf would be even cheaper but not by that much.

Originally Posted by afadeev

Absolutely true, but if 340i was the size and had the acceleration of a plain vanilla MINI cooper, they wouldn't.

The i3 is actually in many ways faster than the 340i around town and that's the primary use of it. It's not supposed to be the only car. It's a car you use to and around the city. And in the city I can't think of a car I'd rather drive than the i3. It's just brilliant.

Originally Posted by afadeev

I'm not trying to engage in theoretical discussion, just reconciling EV sales #s with our theories:
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

I've also owned BMWs for 20+ years (starting with E30s), but never exclusively, nor fanatically.

Unfortunately, BMWs have slipped behind Tesla in terms of "coolness" and technology edge.
By a huge margin.

Perhaps but I really hope the i5 becomes a "Tesla killer". You're right though. I can't understand why the traditional car makers were so slow off the mark on this. It's obvious that the future belongs to the EV.

Originally Posted by afadeev

Take a look at what Model S has done to the US large luxury sedan sales. That market has remained largely stagnant over the past 3-4 years at ~100-120K units, but Model S's has gained market share to ~50% at the expense of all other makes and models, including Merc's S-class and BMW's 7-series.
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/10/16...n-q3-us-sales/

Same story in Europe:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwin.../#2c8a78cb7588

Anyone wants to bet against Model 3 doing something similar to 3-series and i3 over the next few years?

We'll see. Tesla must be able to build all those cars in a very short time. I don't think it's that easy. Tesla is for me just a company that's designed to create a revolution in the car industry. Not take over.

Originally Posted by afadeev

I do see replacing BMW's with Tesla's over the next few years.
If that happens, it will be 100% BMW's fault for sitting on its ass and not providing a technologically competitive product offering.
And for having become less "cool" then Tesla.

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We'll see what happens but I think all major European car makers are working on EVs now. They will be a few years behind Tesla though, that's true. But sometimes the tortoise beats the hare. Tesla is still to make a profit while BMW is very profitable. Who's a winner in the long run? Don't know.