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      03-26-2012, 10:14 AM   #89
SCOTT26
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Wow, Scott! You're getting more and more opinionated lately... Not saying I don't mind. Most representatives of a brand (official or unofficial) prefer to re-divert the topic back to their own brand rather than calling others "cross-dressers" (even if it may be true).
I guess I am opinionated , but I have been in the industry for a fair part of my life so I guess I am entitled to state my opinion on matters that concern greatly, even more so today.

I find that today there is no originality with some manufacturers. Some are so intent on making a BMW that outdoes BMW in every respect that they are too occupied on doing exactly what BMW does that they completely forget about originality. Then when the time comes and the media state "Not a BMW , not even close to a BMW" it creates a new paragraph on their media tombstone. "tried to succeed by being BMW".

For BMW success was not created overnight , the reputation of BMW was built by cars that defined a more sportier term to luxury touring that was generated not only on the road but on the race track too.
Today there is no patience. Some manufacturers want that image , that desireability right away that originality is lost.
It took BMW decades to where it is now and no matter how much resources? or how much money you have? , you cannot achieve that magnitude of success overnight.

People at BMW are very opinionated. Even the CEO , Because they are passionate about the brand, BMW is a doctrinated in their blood and majority of staff members including myself have been there before the start of the rise to the top. And like myself some do not like the idea of seeing a similiar marketing campaign or product idea within another brand that imitates the overall BMW philosophy instead of being original. For example Norbert Reithofer - see his comments on Audi as volume masquerading as premium. And Whatever Audi do, will be because BMW done it first. It is not all friendly in the auto industry at the end of the day it is a competition and everyone is playing to win.


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As for the i brand - BMW has taken on a monumental task with this. BMW has already convinced the world that is builds a driver's car - and enjoys tremendous success with that. Now BMW is trying to be known as having an distinct fleet of the most efficient-yet-dynamic vehicles. Where the world has truly pointed out that it appreciates a driver's car, it will be interesting to see if the world is looking for efficient dynamics yet. Many "green-initiative" makers have tried efficient cars by way of electric vehicles (Toyota somewhat pioneered here with useable - and marketable - hybrids) but with the much anticipated and yet seemingly lackluster launch of the Volt and even the Karma and Tesla, it seems to me the world (aka the Consumer) is saying they love the idea but when shopping they would rather stick to what they know best.

It's a terrific endeavor and quite a gamble on BMW's part and I sincerely hope they can pull it off... If not this go-around then in 2050 when it becomes so important that consumers won't have a choice and BMW will be known as having "cool" efficient vehicles.
I foresee BMWi maybe taking a decade or so , to fully cement itself with its philosophy. BMWi will endeavor to deliver products and solutions to customers who seek new challenges , especially in the future in regarding - What will happen if? BMWi is actually time travel and genealogy. The entire brand concept from design to solutions is brought about by the what if , what will we like to drive in the future? and what can the future look like?
If you were in the fifties or sixties they had aspirations of living on the moon and driving around in jet cars which not only drive on the road , but also fly in the air. BMWi utilises that kind of thinking but in a more realistic manner.
With BMWi that kind of thinking and influences from the past are actually going to materialize with the BMW i3 and i8, they are going to be nothing like you have ever seen or driven before.

BMW believe that for BMWi to be successful it has to be its own brand - the i3 is not a variant of the 3er for example. And the BMWi philosophy is "Born Electric" meaning that this is not a BMW electrified. BMWi can also be determined as going back to the very beginning of BMW and building a brand that inherits the typical characteristics of a BMW but with Alternative drivetrains.
In terms of electrification , some say other manufacturers have gone down the existing product route for familiarity? But BMW believe that in order for the public to accept the BMWi cars that they have to be different and cutting edge in every aspect possible and that includes allowing the cars to be leased for a day within rental networks so that anyone will be able to drive a BMWi car and not leave them as mutually exclusive to the select few.


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You're missing the point. Whether it's an R8/SLS or F12 Berlinetta competitor, the point is BMW is selling itself as being a particularly sportive brand but they do not have a super sports car in their product portfolio, in spite of every other premium brand having one.

And the M6 certainly isn't it, it's just an overweight Gran Turismo car.
In light of BMW not having a Super Sports car , I would say we are doing well if we are still the worlds leading premium manufacturer. The BMW image of a sporting to drive concept is established within every BMW model. Other manufacturers might have the Super Sports car to back up the image, but do they have other products that reflect the super sports car?
And in a lot of examples that would be no.

In regards to the M6. I am asked if the M4 would be the same car but distilled? Unfortunately the M4 cannot be the M6. As the M4 is more accessible and in a way more volume-orientated to the M6. The customer base for the M4 is also more varied as the M6 is more exclusive, M3 E92 is the key essential performance car that BMW offer and the new model will continue that progress and be more innovative in every key respect than before.


Ferrari already made an SUV. It's called the FF and the most ugly Ferrari I have every laid eyes upon. Interestingly from a BMW standpoint they were apparently inspired by the flattened-bug-look of the Z4 Coupé that fortunately is not produced anymore.

Ferrari don't classify the FF as an SUV , they say the Maserati Kubang will be the SUV that is needed from Italy. (interestingly enough at the 2011 IAA I seen the VAG contingent measure the Kubang and again with an imaginary vehicle alongside it, which given the proposed size was the Bentley SUV)
I liked the Z3 Coupe and M Coupe , it was quirky and interesting at the same time and was a riot to drive , especially that M. Those cars were created by sheer creativity , it was not just a marketing exercise or commitee.
It was like a Toy - A source of enjoyment for hours.
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      03-26-2012, 02:02 PM   #90
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      03-26-2012, 02:20 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Ferrari already made an SUV. It's called the FF and the most ugly Ferrari I have every laid eyes upon. Interestingly from a BMW standpoint they were apparently inspired by the flattened-bug-look of the Z4 Coupé that fortunately is not produced anymore.
Do you actually know that for a fact, because I find it hard to believe. There are past Ferrari's with similar proportions to the FF, so to say that they copied BMW seems like a stretch to me.

FF looks like a modern version of the Type 195 inter (circa 1950) to me.
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      03-26-2012, 06:42 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I guess I am opinionated , but I have been in the industry for a fair part of my life so I guess I am entitled to state my opinion on matters that concern greatly, even more so today.

I find that today there is no originality with some manufacturers. Some are so intent on making a BMW that outdoes BMW in every respect that they are too occupied on doing exactly what BMW does that they completely forget about originality. Then when the time comes and the media state "Not a BMW , not even close to a BMW" it creates a new paragraph on their media tombstone. "tried to succeed by being BMW".

For BMW success was not created overnight , the reputation of BMW was built by cars that defined a more sportier term to luxury touring that was generated not only on the road but on the race track too.
Today there is no patience. Some manufacturers want that image , that desireability right away that originality is lost.
It took BMW decades to where it is now and no matter how much resources? or how much money you have? , you cannot achieve that magnitude of success overnight.

People at BMW are very opinionated. Even the CEO , Because they are passionate about the brand, BMW is a doctrinated in their blood and majority of staff members including myself have been there before the start of the rise to the top. And like myself some do not like the idea of seeing a similiar marketing campaign or product idea within another brand that imitates the overall BMW philosophy instead of being original. For example Norbert Reithofer - see his comments on Audi as volume masquerading as premium. And Whatever Audi do, will be because BMW done it first. It is not all friendly in the auto industry at the end of the day it is a competition and everyone is playing to win.




I foresee BMWi maybe taking a decade or so , to fully cement itself with its philosophy. BMWi will endeavor to deliver products and solutions to customers who seek new challenges , especially in the future in regarding - What will happen if? BMWi is actually time travel and genealogy. The entire brand concept from design to solutions is brought about by the what if , what will we like to drive in the future? and what can the future look like?
If you were in the fifties or sixties they had aspirations of living on the moon and driving around in jet cars which not only drive on the road , but also fly in the air. BMWi utilises that kind of thinking but in a more realistic manner.
With BMWi that kind of thinking and influences from the past are actually going to materialize with the BMW i3 and i8, they are going to be nothing like you have ever seen or driven before.

BMW believe that for BMWi to be successful it has to be its own brand - the i3 is not a variant of the 3er for example. And the BMWi philosophy is "Born Electric" meaning that this is not a BMW electrified. BMWi can also be determined as going back to the very beginning of BMW and building a brand that inherits the typical characteristics of a BMW but with Alternative drivetrains.
In terms of electrification , some say other manufacturers have gone down the existing product route for familiarity? But BMW believe that in order for the public to accept the BMWi cars that they have to be different and cutting edge in every aspect possible and that includes allowing the cars to be leased for a day within rental networks so that anyone will be able to drive a BMWi car and not leave them as mutually exclusive to the select few.



In light of BMW not having a Super Sports car , I would say we are doing well if we are still the worlds leading premium manufacturer. The BMW image of a sporting to drive concept is established within every BMW model. Other manufacturers might have the Super Sports car to back up the image, but do they have other products that reflect the super sports car?
And in a lot of examples that would be no.

In regards to the M6. I am asked if the M4 would be the same car but distilled? Unfortunately the M4 cannot be the M6. As the M4 is more accessible and in a way more volume-orientated to the M6. The customer base for the M4 is also more varied as the M6 is more exclusive, M3 E92 is the key essential performance car that BMW offer and the new model will continue that progress and be more innovative in every key respect than before.


Ferrari already made an SUV. It's called the FF and the most ugly Ferrari I have every laid eyes upon. Interestingly from a BMW standpoint they were apparently inspired by the flattened-bug-look of the Z4 Coupé that fortunately is not produced anymore.

Ferrari don't classify the FF as an SUV , they say the Maserati Kubang will be the SUV that is needed from Italy. (interestingly enough at the 2011 IAA I seen the VAG contingent measure the Kubang and again with an imaginary vehicle alongside it, which given the proposed size was the Bentley SUV)
I liked the Z3 Coupe and M Coupe , it was quirky and interesting at the same time and was a riot to drive , especially that M. Those cars were created by sheer creativity , it was not just a marketing exercise or commitee.
It was like a Toy - A source of enjoyment for hours.
Thanks for your comments Scott. It is nice to hear from a BMW insider. Very excited for the BMW i brand
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      03-26-2012, 07:52 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Mako View Post
are you guys serious? the posts so far are pretty funny.

1) this is not meant to be a super sports car, but rather a car that the upper class can buy and still feel good about the environment, compared to buying their Prius. What do you think Brad Pitt would rather be seen driving?
+1000...like the Tesla, but the BMW brand behind it.
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      04-18-2012, 03:28 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I liked the Z3 Coupe and M Coupe , it was quirky and interesting at the same time and was a riot to drive , especially that M. Those cars were created by sheer creativity , it was not just a marketing exercise or commitee.
It was like a Toy - A source of enjoyment for hours.
Maybe it would be better for BMW to recapture the same silly driving sensations they used to - like everyone around here gets aggrivated about? Believe me, the numbers of every new BMW get more impressive than the previous, but the sheer driving pleasure of the cars are always diluted. I own a 2001 740i M Sport, and a brand new 750Li. I can tell you that the old 7 series satisfies me much more, and everyone comments on how much sexier it is than my new 7. It rides superb, it handles like my 3 series, NA V8 noise and throttle response, and was all about the true BMW luxury car. My new 7 feels like a tank that leaves me cold at the end of every drive. Literally the only things I enjoy about that car is when someone gets in and comments on the rear space, then when they close the soft-close door, and pulling up in a car that big. That's about it.

The 80's and 90's BMWs had the most soul, the best look, and BMW was truly the leader on top of the game. When I bought my E90, people (including my family) thought I bought the old 3 series because there was a 2005 330i sitting in the lot next to mine at delivery. The new 3 has been regarded by awful numb steering and a synthetic, artificial experience that gets in the way of the "shit grin" feeling BMWs used to provide. BMW obviously recognizes the fact that they made mistakes - just look at the driver oriented dashboards coming back, the beauty of the new exterior and interior designs. Some things are going back to "old school" except the thing that really matters, the thing that really defines a BMW, and the thing that is most important a BMW - the DRIVE. If BMW was such a leader, they would manage to construct cars that complied with new standards and didn't detract from this main goal of the vehicle.

I remember when the e90 came out, it had its quirks, but reviewers and new owners raved about the performance increase over the e46. The F10 was a disappointment compared to the drive of the e60, the F01 got softer, the F30 is more disappointment - what's next? Is the M Division going to start disappointing soon?

Please don't take my input personally, but I'm only throwing it out there.

Edit: Something I just thought about: remember when you could order a 7 series in RED? That would be unthinkable today, and isn't even offered. It's only a color, but a huge symbol of values.
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Last edited by shanecarmaster1; 04-18-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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      04-18-2012, 09:29 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanecarmaster1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I liked the Z3 Coupe and M Coupe , it was quirky and interesting at the same time and was a riot to drive , especially that M. Those cars were created by sheer creativity , it was not just a marketing exercise or commitee.
It was like a Toy - A source of enjoyment for hours.
Maybe it would be better for BMW to recapture the same silly driving sensations they used to - like everyone around here gets aggrivated about? Believe me, the numbers of every new BMW get more impressive than the previous, but the sheer driving pleasure of the cars are always diluted. I own a 2001 740i M Sport, and a brand new 750Li. I can tell you that the old 7 series satisfies me much more, and everyone comments on how much sexier it is than my new 7. It rides superb, it handles like my 3 series, NA V8 noise and throttle response, and was all about the true BMW luxury car. My new 7 feels like a tank that leaves me cold at the end of every drive. Literally the only things I enjoy about that car is when someone gets in and comments on the rear space, then when they close the soft-close door, and pulling up in a car that big. That's about it.

The 80's and 90's BMWs had the most soul, the best look, and BMW was truly the leader on top of the game. When I bought my E90, people (including my family) thought I bought the old 3 series because there was a 2005 330i sitting in the lot next to mine at delivery. The new 3 has been regarded by awful numb steering and a synthetic, artificial experience that gets in the way of the "shit grin" feeling BMWs used to provide. BMW obviously recognizes the fact that they made mistakes - just look at the driver oriented dashboards coming back, the beauty of the new exterior and interior designs. Some things are going back to "old school" except the thing that really matters, the thing that really defines a BMW, and the thing that is most important a BMW - the DRIVE. If BMW was such a leader, they would manage to construct cars that complied with new standards and didn't detract from this main goal of the vehicle.

I remember when the e90 came out, it had its quirks, but reviewers and new owners raved about the performance increase over the e46. The F10 was a disappointment compared to the drive of the e60, the F01 got softer, the F30 is more disappointment - what's next? Is the M Division going to start disappointing soon?

Please don't take my input personally, but I'm only throwing it out there.

Edit: Something I just thought about: remember when you could order a 7 series in RED? That would be unthinkable today, and isn't even offered. It's only a color, but a huge symbol of values.
Well all car manufacturers have to make everything softer, its for mass market appeal. I wish BMW could make a so called "enthusiast package" with proper tires and sportier suspension. Which bring me on to another point, why are BMWs coming with the worst tires possible (excluding m cars) The new 3 and 5 have reviews that say worse handling because of worse tires. They come with touring and low rolling resistance tires that decrease performance tremendously for 1 mpg. I say this because I drove the new 3 with 18 inch pirelli p7 low rolling resistance summer, a 19 inch car with bridgestone s001 and a 18 inch with s001. The s001 is a proper summer tire making the grip level higher along with make more predictable handling and feel. So Scott26 why is BMW putting some awful tires on their brilliant cars?
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