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      02-27-2013, 01:40 PM   #67
ptack
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I just want to see the Top Gear review and power lap.
Ha, there's a chance that BMW will not let them near either car based on Tesla's experience. These are like BMW halo cars and if they aren't absolutely spectacular the guys from Top Gear could rip them up in front of a global audience. BMW is being very guarded about these.
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      02-27-2013, 01:52 PM   #68
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Not going to happen.
What is hypothetical price point for this?

in retrospect my comment is neieve as there are plenty of BMW's in hte $100k+ range already that are not HOLO status
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      02-27-2013, 01:55 PM   #69
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No sh*t. "Never run out of battery"...umm no. It is a plug in hybrid, you have to charge it every night. The fact that it has a range put on electric power, means as some point you will run out of electric. At that point you have a 3-cylinder sports car. Do some driving around the city in all electric, add in some combined sporty driving. That battery will fully discharge, you better believe.
Uh... Sorry, no. Apparently you have no idea what PHV is.

Edit: jdong has a perfect explanation there. I think you should read that first. If you are a gear head, you should understand it.
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      02-27-2013, 02:24 PM   #70
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Uh... Sorry, no. Apparently you have no idea what PHV is.

Edit: jdong has a perfect explanation there. I think you should read that first. If you are a gear head, you should understand it.
I am sorry you think you will have full electric + gas power ratings 100% time of ownership. You are a fool if you think that. They are selling the i8 as a sports car, meaning people will want to take in canyon carving (aka hard driving). The i8 is not intended for "eco drivers".
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      02-27-2013, 02:34 PM   #71
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Very rarely does a driver constantly ask for the peak power output out of the car for more than half a minute at best.

The Prius, for example can only boost for around half a mile under full throttle (see last sentence of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_...ve#Performance). The ActiveHybrid 3/5 can provide around 20 seconds of boost (http://www.driving.ca/research-car/r...940/story.html). Starting with 100% juice, I'm usually down to 90% after a full throttle 0-70. But remember the AH3 only has a 1 mile electric range, so the i8's battery is much much larger.
One problem is when people start quoting cars like the Prius when talking about the i8. Like in this video, it is already being compared to the 911 or M3. The i8 is being sold as a sports car. People drive their 911's and M3's hard, they are not eco-driving them like a Prius.

Now your argument makes 100% sense when talking about the i3.
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      02-27-2013, 04:09 PM   #72
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      02-27-2013, 04:43 PM   #73
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BMW Just Can Not Make A Supercar.
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      02-27-2013, 05:07 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
One problem is when people start quoting cars like the Prius when talking about the i8. Like in this video, it is already being compared to the 911 or M3. The i8 is being sold as a sports car. People drive their 911's and M3's hard, they are not eco-driving them like a Prius.

Now your argument makes 100% sense when talking about the i3.
Dude, please read what I wrote again... I was talking about the Prius and AH3/Volt's power management strategy, not about their sporty performance. The basic power management strategy in a hybrid is the same whether it's for a Prius or for a high-end hybrid sports car... It's about maintaining enough reserve power for boost when the user needs it. I used to work on hybrid electric power architecture for high-end high-power applications, so I do know what I'm talking about. Also, note that the turbo-3 in the i8 is good for 220HP, which is well over double that of the Prius, not to mention you get the turbocharged flat torque profile. The i8 is not even remotely similar in performance to a Prius. Even if you take out the electric boost.

I didn't say you'd get 100% of the rated power 100% of the time. In fact I said the exact opposite. I said the car can only continuously give you peak output for a limited amount of time, but in the real world it will aggressively recharge the pack when you're asking for less power, so it's ready for the next time you floor it.


I don't know how you drive your 911 or M3, even an "aggressive" driver is going to have a hard time depleting the battery on an i8. You're going to hit some limit before long -- whether it's the felony speeding limit, or the maximum safe speed for the track you're on (e.g. enter a corner? the car's gonna charge while you let off on the gas), or the governed speed limiter that prevents the drivetrain/tires from flying apart.

Let's do some hypothetical calculations. The i8 is powered by a 96kW(129HP) electric motor and a 220HP (164kW) turbo-3. So, even in full gasoline mode, you have a 220HP, 3300lb car. That's not all that wimpy. If you are flooring it fully, a 7.2kWhr battery pack can provide 96kW for 4 minutes 30 seconds. The car is going to reach its governed top speed well within a minute, so you can't even apply full electric power for all that long. It's unclear from public information what the generator is in the i8. Assuming it's a parallel hybrid using the traction motor as the generator, it will be able to recharge the battery fully in 4 minutes 30 seconds as well.

Of course the above numbers are theoretical back of the envelope calculations, but the real figures are in the same ballpark. The electric machine only provides 1/3 of the total system power, and its role in instantaneous boost only requires a few seconds of electric charging (via load shifting) and its role in continuous assist can be sustained for much longer than one can be foreseen to need!
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      02-28-2013, 03:58 PM   #75
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Now spotted in little Denmark!
Interesting pictures in link:

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      02-28-2013, 04:10 PM   #76
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Quote:
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Now, your statement is true in that if you continuously ask for more power than the engine can produce, [...] you'll be pegged at the governed top speed for quite some time.

Very rarely does a driver constantly ask for the peak power output out of the car for more than half a minute at best.

The Prius...
Well, on the street for sure, you are not constantly flooring. On the racetrack, that's another story now. I'd be curious to see if the i8 can make a full Nurnburing flat-out lap without exhausting the batteries in the middle. It -is- a race car, if it can't race, it is a strange animal.
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      03-04-2013, 04:49 AM   #77
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I think the i8 is coming along very well. The performance seems to be on par with what BMW originally stated it would be. Those tires look a little thin for my taste, even in the non snow test pics but I still can't wait to see it in person.

With the upcoming NSX, rumored next gen GTR and a few others that will be in this price range, I anticipate that BMW will introduce an M model, (Mi8, M8, i8M or whatever) using the upcoming M3/4 motor and possibly an uprated version of the electric motor up front giving the car maybe as much as 600hp.
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      03-06-2013, 12:11 PM   #78
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http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/03/laferrari/
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