02-24-2017, 07:01 AM | #23 |
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03-07-2017, 06:44 PM | #24 | |||
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My 2015 Coded US REx often shows more than 170 miles of total range. I rarely use a 1/4 of that in a day. Quote:
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Springs, spacers, tint, tinted wheel arch reflectors, done. ----- A lot of these comments remind me of why I don't get on this site much anymore. Can you imagine the flack someone would get, or multiple people would get if they went into an M3/M4/M5/M6 forum and posted about how AWFUL they think those respective cars look? To each and every nay-sayer I say DRIVE IT, I was hooked instantly. It is a crazy fun car to drive, we now have two of them. Luckily the i3 has an AMAZING Facebook Group, its one of the best features of the car, so I don't have to check their forum very frequently. Its just a glaring reminder of how some BMW owners are. "My BMW is better than your BMW because of XYZLMNOP" GTFOver yourselves.
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03-10-2017, 04:01 AM | #25 |
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Dual electrical engines - xDrive
With 125Ah batteries and 400k, let's hope BMW i branch will get rid of the gasoline engine and tank for good.
Use the space in the back where the REX system is for the stuff that is now in front and fit an extra engine in front instead. A xDrive i3 would be super cool and really needed for the "s" models to get some traction. Also for safer regenerating in wintertime. |
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03-10-2017, 03:05 PM | #26 | |
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However, I must say that having the REX myself, gives another option. The DC fast Charge has to grow up a little bit more, making the REX unnecessary. This would make my X3D obsolete, and I could go to one car, so would be able to absorb the higher cost. It will come. We just all cannot wait. Bailyhill
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03-10-2017, 05:48 PM | #27 | ||
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What does take a significant amount of space is the REX engine. BMW could reclaim that space to put more batteries on board of BEV cars. But they don't, and they won't. It boils down to the extra cost, and the fact that another +10-15% more battery capacity would bump the cost of the car up, and make it that much harder to sell. And frankly, +10-15% capacity bump is not enough. Quote:
i3, as much as I like mine, has become noncompetitive with its price vs. range value proposition. Since i3 was launched 3 years ago, the market has evolved way quicker than Munich was prepared to react. Normally, BMWs have ~7 year life-cycle. With the rate of EV and battery technological innovation, i3 went from compelling to forgotten in 3 years. I can guarantee you no traditional automaker was prepared for that! Without a larger chassis to accommodate a 2x physically larger (60+ kWh) battery (+33% capacity increments from battery density wont' do), i3 has become a fish out of water. It is now book-ended by much longer range competitors: Bolt (cheaper built, but lower price) and Model S (higher quality throughout, a bit higher price). Another engine would bring its price closer to Model S, but without the range and luxury. It wont reverse the downward sales spiral of the i3. So the project wont get the funding. a
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03-10-2017, 07:12 PM | #28 | |
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How much does that cost? Do I make 6 extra payments at my current rate? Do they give me extra miles or do I just buy a lump sum of miles? |
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03-10-2017, 10:22 PM | #29 | |||
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Then, BMW FS had effectively rescheduled my lease turn-in date for T+4 months (that's all I needed). Quote:
Your monthly payment stays the same. You get a prorated mileage allowance based on current lease terms. If you have a 10K/year lease, then extending the lease for +6 months will get you +5K of additional millage allowance. HTH, a
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03-10-2017, 10:37 PM | #30 | |||
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Going from 90Ah to 125Ah (next step in Samsung batteries) will provide a +39% capacity boost. If you assume a similar handicap with actual range, we would get ~ +31% range bump, upto ~150 miles. Still too little to compete effectively against Bolt or Model S, or Model 3. But better than it was before. The only outstanding questions are:
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I just don't take the REX onto long journeys anymore. Use ICE cars for that. Therefore, short range is sufficient. But if i3 did have an appreciably longer range, I probably would have pushed its limits a lot more. a
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03-12-2017, 04:24 PM | #31 |
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Going from 60Ah to 90Ah battery capacity (same physical tray size) gave i3 an effective 50% battery boost (from 22KWh to 33KWh). The actual range increased by less than that, from 81 miles to 114 miles, or + 40%, due to the extra weight.
Going from 90Ah to 125Ah (next step in Samsung batteries) will provide a +39% capacity boost. If you assume a similar handicap with actual range, we would get ~ +31% range bump, upto ~150 miles. Now if you add in a REX with a larger tank, is reasonable to expect an additional ~150 miles from the REX. This makes a trip with a destination 300 miles away feasible, and with a fill up at the other end, you can come back 150 miles. Add in a fast charge at the destination or on the way back, and you can do a very nice 600 mile round trip. This is competitive with what is out there, considering the way the i3 drives. I would do this in a hearbeat when my 2015 REX comes off lease in 8 months. Bailyhill
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03-13-2017, 03:57 AM | #32 | |
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03-13-2017, 10:37 PM | #33 | |||
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You could (with excessive patience and planning for gas stops) get current REX to travel 300 or 600 miles, but it hardly makes it an EV challenge to BOLT or Model S. Unless your i3 is your one and only car, REX range does not really matter, or count. For two reasons: 1). It's an emergency reserve, utilizing or relying on which noisily defeats the motivation for buying and using an Electric Vehicle in the first place. 2). i3 is a largely disappointing highway cruiser. It's way too susceptible to wind buffeting (from both cross winds and 18-wheelers), narrow wheels tend to tramline along asphalt grooves, and way too soft springs + tiny sway bars provide floaty and uninspiring handling during emergency lane changes. Highway speeds also destroy EV mileage. Long story short, I've given up on taking the i3 on the highways. That's the area where M3 and other ICE cars excel on all fronts. If BMW were to come out with "Sports" package that would fix highway handling challenges (or buys and re-badges Model S), I will reconsider #2. Until then, I'm returning my REX in favor of a 93Ah BEV. Quote:
YMMV, a
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03-14-2017, 07:51 AM | #34 | |
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300 mile Range Opens the Market
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Hello afadeev; I don't disagree with your perspective. In fact, while I don't have an M3/i3, I have an x3D and an i3 Rex. These cars cover my needs very well, as the i3 and M3 cover your needs. I agree that the highway handling needs to be fixed, but that might not take a full M version--perhaps adaptive drive or the mag fluid shocks and some software would make a big difference--or maybe just a proper deployed spoiler (costs range?). What we have to keep in mind, that we each have over a 100 Grand at list price tied up in our cars. Not too many folks can do that, and I am not sure that I would not opt for a Tesla if I wanted to drop that much money at one time. I got the leftover crazy lease on the 2015 REX, so its like I have only $75K tied up--actually lease both cars so its more like a monthly payment. If BMW does evolve the i3, next generation batteries, bigger tank for the REX, and Xdrive in some cases, then they have a vehicle that does everything for folks--300 miles on a charge and a tank of gas, and can go anywhere in snow country--like a small SUV. I think that would open up the market considerably. They should also consider putting additional battery where the REX goes, for a long distance BEV. This might even preclude the REX. It also requires the maturing of the Fast Charge network, so that one has that option about every 150 miles. They seem to have sold 11K and 6K units in the first couple of years. I am sure that they wanted to do much better than that. Right now they are limited to folks who have shorter needs or two cars, like you and I. I am sure that an M version would fill out the lineup, but right now I suspect that the i3 needs volume before they can justify the special edition M. An advanced battery, dual motor, 400hp, AWD, track capable, car would be stiff competition for the M. However, an advanced battery, 170hp, AWD, nice riding car for us old folks would expand the market, keep BMW competitive in the EV space, and provide revenue for the i3M, and we would both be happy, along with a lot of other campers. Bailyhill
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03-14-2017, 10:31 PM | #35 | ||||
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In my case, I may be leasing a $50K i3-BEV, but my exposure is only $250 * 24 == $6K over 2 years. That's Honda Civic money. Net of gas savings, it's a ~$100/month car. For a vehicle MSRP-ed at $50K, that's an absolutely a steal. In fact, i3 would be an absolutely perfect car for parents to get for their teenagers. Pretty safe, not too fast, always on an EV range leash ;-) My kids are not old enough to drive, but BMW is missing a serious marketing segmentation opportunity here! Quote:
I suspect there are serious packaging constraints preventing this (battery tray is sealed, and ends before the rear axle), else, BMW is usually pretty ingenious with its packaging solutions. Quote:
Effectively, that means selling i3s to people living near major cities. I picked word "near" on purpose, because you can't reliably recharge an EV in NYC (way too few public EV chargers), so owning one while you live in the City is impractical (never mind the costs of parking and insuring a car in NYC, period). i3 really requires a garage with an L2 charger that it can hog exclusively. Any time. Quote:
///M brand sales represent somewhere between 5-10% of equivalent regular model sales. So if there were 6K i3s sold in the US last year, at most, i3M would have sold ~600 of them. That's would have been less than 1/2 of i8 sales last year. You see where it becomes a super-niche product that can't justify proper new sub-model R&D investment. And ///M quality upgrades would require serious redesign with extra cooling (Model S overheats and craps out on track), better aerodynamics, interior upgrades, etc, etc. An i3"S" upgrade, with stiffer suspension + wider tires + maybe stronger engine, is way cheaper to put together. Priced reasonably, people will buy it. I would. So I bet an "S" will happen. 4WD i3M would have been cool, but is highly unlikely to happen. Not unless i3 sales suddenly go exponential and hit 10x in a few years between now and 2021, when i5 SUV is due to arrive. Bolt and Model 3 will make sure that that (sadly) will not come to pass. In a way, i8 is, and will remain, an i3///M-car ;-) a
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03-16-2017, 06:08 PM | #36 | |
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I was thinking that they would make a second battery tray, fitted where the REX is now. Keep it the same weight as the REX, but all battery, >120 Ah cells. Bailyhill
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03-20-2017, 04:55 AM | #37 |
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From bimmerpost I read 15 ps extra for i3s. My dealer confirmed they have official info (okay semmi official inside info) carbon black will be a color choice for i3s. They also told me no larger battery for i3s, current upgraded one stays. Also wider wheel arches at least for i3s model. i3 is a great car imo. Coming from several coupes (e46, e92) as well as x6/x5. I now have a 2017 x5 and i am buying an i3 soon because i simply love it and no real need for an X5 (i will keep it for really long trips couple of times per year).
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03-20-2017, 03:11 PM | #38 | |
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120 Ah battery?
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More range opens up the market, and with the Bolt and Model 3 as soon to be to market, they could use more. Bailyhill
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03-24-2017, 11:13 AM | #39 | ||
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Alas, there is the third, and possibly the most critical one that needs to be considered, the cost. As long as BMW continues to charge more for larger capacity batteries ($1.2K premium for 94Ah over 60Ah), the higher cost will deter some buyers. Thus, any range gain customer pull will be offset, or negated, by higher vehicle costs. Quote:
Anther +25% range bump (from 94Ah to 120Ah Samsung batteries), to ~130 miles, will do nothing to pull customers away from either Bolt of Model 3. To bring to market a meaningful increase in range, BMW needs to redesign and elongate the i3 frame to make room for more batteries. There is no indication that any such effort is underway, at last not in time for MY'18 refresh. i3 has already got longer range than Leaf, yet it is trailing it badly in sales, roughly 2.5 : 1. Leaf is much cheaper, starting at $30K vs. i3's $42K. Evidently, that has a HUGE impact on sales. Increasing the cost with marginally longer battery capacity risks making i3 that much less competitive in the marketplace! a
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03-25-2017, 11:17 AM | #40 | |
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03-27-2017, 06:04 AM | #41 | |
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03-27-2017, 07:22 AM | #42 | |
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Bailyhill Bailyhill
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03-27-2017, 01:53 PM | #43 | |||
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- Model S for "premium" EV buyers - Everything else for "budget" category. Sadly, i3 is neither here, nor there. It's priced as "premium" EV, but its sub-sub-compact size and range belongs squarely in the "budget" category. Even there, it is becoming less and less competitive, as other "budget" offerings are coming out with longer range and better acceleration (Bolt later this year, Model 3 early next year). Quote:
I'm not trying to engage in theoretical discussion, just reconciling EV sales #s with our theories: http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ Quote:
Unfortunately, BMWs have slipped behind Tesla in terms of "coolness" and technology edge. By a huge margin. Take a look at what Model S has done to the US large luxury sedan sales. That market has remained largely stagnant over the past 3-4 years at ~100-120K units, but Model S's has gained market share to ~50% at the expense of all other makes and models, including Merc's S-class and BMW's 7-series. https://cleantechnica.com/2016/10/16...n-q3-us-sales/ Same story in Europe: https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwin.../#2c8a78cb7588 Anyone wants to bet against Model 3 doing something similar to 3-series and i3 over the next few years? I do see replacing BMW's with Tesla's over the next few years. If that happens, it will be 100% BMW's fault for sitting on its ass and not providing a technologically competitive product offering. And for having become less "cool" then Tesla. a
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03-27-2017, 07:14 PM | #44 | ||||
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