12-07-2023, 03:26 PM | #5171 |
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Then you have no understanding of DERs and our electrical grid. Solar is part of the solution, not the solution. Making the stupid statement about Solar and night time is so played out and uneducated in this point in time it is comical. No one takes that statement seriously because they know how juvenile of a response/reaction it is. I know it was witty in the 90s to say that maybe even the early 2000s. Its a bit played out now, don't you think?
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12-07-2023, 03:35 PM | #5172 |
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No why are you? Generally I don't look to solar panel CO for anything but rose colored information.
Solar Panels Popularity Generates Concerns About Recycling Nov 28, 2023 Solar panels consist of sheets of glass and plastic polymer covered in silicon rectangles—the semiconductors that do the work of converting sunlight to electricity. Held together by an aluminum frame, these panels may also contain copper, silver or other metals, such as lead, which makes disposal difficult. Because of that, most solar panels end up in landfills; only about 10% are recycled. Without federal guidelines for recycling solar panels, each state has designed its own regulations. On top of the inconsistency in recycling rules is the cost: according to a March 2021 report from the NREL, the cost to recycle a panel ranges from $15 to $45, while the cost to throw it away amounts to just a few dollars. https://www.ecmag.com/magazine/artic...bout-recycling As for the rest of your post I don't see we are in much disagreement. |
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12-07-2023, 03:41 PM | #5173 | |
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[QUOTE=Car-Addicted;30715157][QUOTE=Torgus;30715100]Are you spreading FUD on purpose?
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If it currently costs 15-45 those cost will lower in the future because of economies of scale. What I meant about FUD was that solar modules are so toxic. I really don't think they are, everything I have read is they can all be recycled and solar 'waste' is a very small concern in the grand scheme of things. Their 3 main components are some of the most commonly found elements on earth which is why they are attractive as an energy generating resource. We will literally never run out of material to make solar panels(or nukes in a time line that matters). Same can not be said of oil or lithium. Now the fact so many are made with literal slave labor of the uyghurs in China is horrible. People put solar modules in DUMB places. Like like people want to use EVs in dumb applications. A great use case for EVs are school buses. The buses mainly run a few times a day. The rest of the time they are sitting idle or turned off. They generally sit all weekend. They mainly only drive around town. Plenty of time to charge them up while not in use. You can also use the 50+ massive batteries as a resource at night or during the weekend when the buses are not being used. Each town has a fleet of school buses. A good use of EVs IMO. Plenty of dumb places to try and push EVs like semi long distance travel or for 18 wheelers for instance etc. EVs work in certain use cases just like many other technologies. The future will be a combination of many technologies coming together. But...we really need to build a bunch of nuke plants and strengthen on grid ASAP IMO. Last edited by Torgus; 12-07-2023 at 03:54 PM.. |
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12-07-2023, 03:59 PM | #5174 | |
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100% solar is stupid and will never work. You can look at Cali and see the ramifications of having so much PV on their grid and the massive duck bill curve and the effects it has on generation. Installing that much solar could still be useful, if we wanted to export via SHVDC to other countries. We agree on a lot. I will vote for the candidate that lets me have my freedoms as published in the constitution and its amendments and who wants MORE NUKES! Edit: The last year ICE cars can be bought I am buying two brand new. One truck for me, one SUV for the wife. They will last me until I perish.
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12-07-2023, 04:38 PM | #5175 |
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I don't see that we are in disagreement on anything. The biggest issue is it is too cheap to dispose of solar panels in a land fill than is it to recycle then. This needs to be addressed.
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12-07-2023, 05:16 PM | #5176 | |
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For ICE/EV - the path forward should be focused on plug-in hybrids, imo. That's where 75% of the vehicles should be. Put 50 mile EV range into every car with a gas engine that can handle the high load situations and regen power on longer trips. But when stuck in stop and go traffic on the daily commute, it's all EV. Everyone gets to save on gas, we save on pollution, and EV is a great experience in stop and go traffic, pretty much made for it. Instead of gas to go and brake dust to slow, it's electricity to go and regen to slow... you're recovering at least some of that energy you just spent. But I also think full EV has a place, particularly in short distance higher density areas like cities. ICE has it's place too, like sports cars, towing, and long distance travel. I think I said it earlier in this thread, but I'd like to see a realistic goal of 25% EV, 50% plug-in, 25% ICE. Maybe eventually that can change as the electrical grid changes, battery tech changes, etc. |
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12-07-2023, 05:31 PM | #5177 |
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Nuclear is an extremely high risk vs reward source of power. Man has proven time and time again that serious accidents can and do happen at nuclear powerplants even with all the safeguards and protocols. We all know the obvious nuclear accidents, but there are also tons of near misses and minor accidents at plants which could have been catastrophic and would have made Chernobyl look like look like a minor accident.
I know the argument is for much smaller nuclear powerplants to mitigate risk, but even a meltdown at a tiny powerplant could render hundreds of square miles uninhabitable for hundreds of years. Also, I can't think of anyone that would want a nuclear powerplant in their backyard either knowing what we know now about the accidents. Lastly, as others noted, and the management of waste is an expensive and risky thing. Many of these wastes are essentially perpetually hazardous and radioactive.
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12-07-2023, 06:27 PM | #5178 | ||
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12-07-2023, 07:03 PM | #5179 | ||
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The grid I work with is in mostly northern states, power peaks are often during winter night time heating. Also keep in mind, the the wind doesn't always blow... It's less reliable than solar. |
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12-07-2023, 07:32 PM | #5180 | |
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California already regularly makes more solar than it can use, so what does it use at night? It has to buy *other types of power. More solar won't help California solve it's problems. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing, especially when that good thing is only available from 8AM to 6 PM. Texas sometimes makes more wind power than it can use. They have had to pay to produce power (negative sales value) at times. This is the problem: green power isn't a stable 24/7/365 resource like the other sources. Adding more unstable unreliable power to an unstable unreliable grid doesn't make the grid more reliable or more stable. |
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12-07-2023, 09:18 PM | #5181 | |
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But I work in a city and have seen plenty of people charging their cars parked on the street. They have an outlet run to the side of the road, and plug in. Granted it's in areas with all single family houses, no apartments to overrun street parking, so they're probably always able to park in front of their house. |
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12-07-2023, 11:04 PM | #5182 | |
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I live in a moderately densely populated neighborhood on the north side of the city. My neighborhood encompasses 1.7 square miles and has a population of about 56,300. That’s 33,000 people per square mile. This is what a typical residential street looks like in my neighborhood.
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12-08-2023, 02:31 AM | #5183 | |
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The recent discussion in this thread regarding land use of solar generation is about replacing nearly 80% of power generation now reliability provided by low cost traditional "non-renewable" sources. Because the earth goes dark every 12 hours DER is not reliable unless you think electricity is used to just power your computer and LED lightbulbs, and recharge your tablet and cell phone. Last edited by Efthreeoh; 12-08-2023 at 02:44 AM.. |
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12-08-2023, 05:08 AM | #5184 |
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What is a 'DER' anybody, all I know is that DER was a tv rental company in the sixties and seventies..
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12-08-2023, 05:19 AM | #5185 | |
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12-08-2023, 06:45 AM | #5186 |
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12-08-2023, 07:41 AM | #5187 |
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They say that in Canada it takes about 10 years to build a nuclear power plant and get it on line, that's once construction begins. The other issue with this is the environmental assessments, getting approval, permits, funding and then dealing with the anti nukes and NIMBY's. I don't think any of that work has even started so how far off are we, your guess is as good as mine.
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12-08-2023, 08:20 AM | #5188 | |
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How Tesla's become killer machines ! Last night , I watched the movie. It was great
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12-08-2023, 08:28 AM | #5189 | |
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12-08-2023, 09:39 AM | #5190 |
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12-08-2023, 09:45 AM | #5191 | ||
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Types of DERs: Solar Wind Hydro CHP Fuel Cells Microgrids Diesel or Natural Gas Generators NG Turbines Stand Alone ESS EVs this list goes on. DERs have been used to reduce demand charges on industrial buildings for over 40 years, probably longer. Also known as peak shaving which can save a building hundred of thousands a year in energy costs. DERs can also help with power quality issues which can be a big deal if you are affected by it. DERs are not just Solar and Wind, far from it. If you are familiar with energy generation the term DER has been used for the last 35+ years: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy02osti/31570.pdf The fact anyone wants to speak about electrical generation, the national grid, and what is 'best' for America's electrical generation & grid and are unfamiliar with what a DER is...interesting. DERs are required for our national grid. It's not some boogey man. It's not a left vs. right thing. It's not solar & wind. DERs are part of the solution not the solution. Just like EVs, ICE, Solar, Wind, Nuke, Coal, etc. it's not like 1 is the solution to everything which is how our monkey brains like to think the world works. Quote:
Very few items make more money recycling than throwing away I believe. Aluminum cans, glass, cardboard, PCBs, and scrap metal are about it as far as I know. I could be wrong. The good news is you can recycle solar panels and they last 50+ years. So it takes a long while before you need to recycle them...but you are correct solar panels are not currently inexpensive to recycle. Given how inexpensive and abundant the raw components of a solar panel are it begs the question to just bury them in a big hole I joke. It is good Solar is just 1 part of the DER and energy generation solutions for our grid. It is not the only solution. People don't have to hate it because they are right wing or listen to fox news. Solar has always been associated with the left. Probably always will be. Just one piece of the puzzle.
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Last edited by Torgus; 12-08-2023 at 09:56 AM.. |
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12-08-2023, 09:48 AM | #5192 |
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I've read about something like this before, instead of declaring war a cyberattack that commandeers EV's may be the little known secret weapon of an opposing enemy.
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