[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Inge_F

Sorry, but no one ever claimed that wider tires would account for nearly 7 secs per lap.

I was more pointing out the mere fact that people are making excuses for its poor performance. The car sucks as far as lap times go plain and simple...and its performance in general is far lacking. Tires arent going to make up for those facts...help, yes, but not make any meaningful difference especially when you could easily say the othe two cars could benefit too from wider rubber.

I dont think overall it helps that the i8 came out a time when cars like the 918 Spyder, p1, LaF are out, of which, all are far greater technological and performance achievments (and far better looking to boot) which will shape the future of cars. The i8 isnt nearly the same calibre.

[Carac]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I was more pointing out the mere fact that people are making excuses for its poor performance. The car sucks as far as lap times go plain and simple...and its performance in general is far lacking. Tires arent going to make up for those facts...help, yes, but not make any meaningful difference especially when you could easily say the othe two cars could benefit too from wider rubber.

I dont think overall it helps that the i8 came out a time when cars like the 918 Spyder, p1, LaF are out, of which, all are far greater technological and performance achievments (and far better looking to boot) which will shape the future of cars. The i8 isnt nearly the same calibre.

You would probably complain that supermodels are bad at weightlifting too. You are applying your "standards of excellence" (laps times on a track) to a car where they are moot; not judging it based on what it was engineered and built to do (offer a currently unmatched combination of sporty driving, fuel economy, cutting edge tech and materials, bold styling, and sustainable production with wind and hydro powered production plants). That doesn't mean the car is deficient...your expectations are. If lap times and track ability were the sole metrics by which cars were judged we'd all be driving Formula cars to work.

[ericsi]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I was more pointing out the mere fact that people are making excuses for its poor performance. The car sucks as far as lap times go plain and simple...and its performance in general is far lacking. Tires arent going to make up for those facts...help, yes, but not make any meaningful difference especially when you could easily say the othe two cars could benefit too from wider rubber.

I dont think overall it helps that the i8 came out a time when cars like the 918 Spyder, p1, LaF are out, of which, all are far greater technological and performance achievments (and far better looking to boot) which will shape the future of cars. The i8 isnt nearly the same calibre.

Comparing apples and oranges. Laf costs £1 mln, i8 1/10th of that. What do you expect? For the price, it's plain and simple amazing.

Go drive one and see for yourself.

[VMRWheels]

Interesting read, thanks for sharing OP!

[clbmw]

I was at my local dealership chatting to a friend who is a salesperson, he was due to drive an i8 today and I cannot wait to hear his experiences, however he understood when I said a used McLaren 12C isn't that far away from the i8 in terms of price....

[Inge_F]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I was more pointing out the mere fact that people are making excuses for its poor performance. The car sucks as far as lap times go plain and simple...and its performance in general is far lacking. Tires arent going to make up for those facts...help, yes, but not make any meaningful difference especially when you could easily say the othe two cars could benefit too from wider rubber.

Yes, all cars will get more grip with wider rubber, we know that.
What I'm saying is that the i8 would not be that much behind if it had the same type of tires as the other two, wether they all had 215s all around or 275...

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I dont think overall it helps that the i8 came out a time when cars like the 918 Spyder, p1, LaF are out, of which, all are far greater technological and performance achievments (and far better looking to boot) which will shape the future of cars. The i8 isnt nearly the same calibre.

Those 3 cars are built from a whole different philosophy where consumption and cost had no priority what so ever. Eletric power are there just for power boost/torque fill and they cost 10 times more. Sure, all cars are a compromise of some degree, also these 3, but the i8 is one of the best compromises between performance and consumption today.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Inge_F

Yes, all cars will get more grip with wider rubber, we know that.
What I'm saying is that the i8 would not be that much behind if it had the same type of tires as the other two, wether they all had 215s all around or 275...




Those 3 cars are built from a whole different philosophy where consumption and cost had no priority what so ever. Eletric power are there just for power boost/torque fill and they cost 10 times more. Sure, all cars are a compromise of some degree, also these 3, but the i8 is one of the best compromises between performance and consumption today.

I'm saying with wider tires the i8 would still get destroyed. Wider tires are not going to make up 7 seconds on a 1:17 lap. I could easily say lets put wider tires on the 911 and R8 and they would also benefit. End result, the i8 still gets utterly embarassed.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

I think some people just don't get what an i8 is. It would have been easy for BMW to stick a V8 engine on to the carbon frame of the i8, wider and stikier tyres and make it a 911/R8 fighter.

Instead they decided to look in the future and make a concept car with the best hybrid/electric technology available for a fairly reasonable price (compared to the LaF and 918).

Period.

BTW, if I want to do track times, I'll take my formula 1600 and beat the crap of all Porsche 911 and R8 and whatever and have more fun driving...

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Carac

You would probably complain that supermodels are bad at weightlifting too. You are applying your "standards of excellence" (laps times on a track) to a car where they are moot; not judging it based on what it was engineered and built to do (offer a currently unmatched combination of sporty driving, fuel economy, cutting edge tech and materials, bold styling, and sustainable production with wind and hydro powered production plants). That doesn't mean the car is deficient...your expectations are. If lap times and track ability were the sole metrics by which cars were judged we'd all be driving Formula cars to work.

+1

[Inge_F]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I'm saying with wider tires the i8 would still get destroyed. Wider tires are not going to make up 7 seconds on a 1:17 lap. I could easily say lets put wider tires on the 911 and R8 and they would also benefit. End result, the i8 still gets utterly embarassed.

Same tires as the competitors and it would be closer, that's for sure. Define destroyed, it is just 4,1 sec behind the Audi in the first place. I'm sorry I have to repeat my self, but no one ever said it would make up for 7 seconds. Don't know where you have that from.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Inge_F

Same tires as the competitors and it would be closer, that's for sure. Define destroyed, it is just 4,1 sec behind the Audi in the first place. I'm sorry I have to repeat my self, but no one ever said it would make up for 7 seconds. Don't know where you have that from.

I know youre not saying it would make up 7 seconds. But it wont make up enough to even be within comparison. Wider tires might make up a second or 2, but I again could say wider tires on the 911 could make up 1 or 2 seconds for it making the delta 7 seconds again. Either way, its not on the same planet as the 911.

[Inge_F]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I know youre not saying it would make up 7 seconds. But it wont make up enough to even be within comparison. Wider tires might make up a second or 2, but I again could say wider tires on the 911 could make up 1 or 2 seconds for it making the delta 7 seconds again. Either way, its not on the same planet as the 911.

Ah, yes, if you sustain the delta on tire width you will probably sustain the 7 second delta as well, more or less. What I'm trying to tell you is that if you totally remove the tire width delta, the lap time delta will decrease!

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Inge_F

Ah, yes, if you sustain the delta on tire width you will probably sustain the 7 second delta as well, more or less. What I'm trying to tell you is that if you totally remove the tire width delta, the lap time delta will decrease!

It would decrease some, but not enough to make any difference. Again, knocking a second or two off that 7 second delta is still a difference that is equivalent to a lifetime on pretty much any lap short of the Ring, and even that difference on the Ring is getting up there.

I wonder, though, if the i8 going to wider tires would upset the aero on the car. They obviously chose the tire widths for a particular reason.

No matter which way you slice it, this is a terribly poor performing track car.

[Inge_F]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

It would decrease some, but not enough to make any difference. Again, knocking a second or two off that 7 second delta is still a difference that is equivalent to a lifetime on pretty much any lap short of the Ring, and even that difference on the Ring is getting up there.

I wonder, though, if the i8 going to wider tires would upset the aero on the car. They obviously chose the tire widths for a particular reason.

No matter which way you slice it, this is a terribly poor performing track car.

Like I said, it would decrease and that makes a difference.
They chose those tires for eco reasons, thats why they are both narrow and quite hard, to reduce friction.
With that in mind I think its a very well performing track car.

[PurM3]

The markup on i8 is insane. I don't think it's worth it.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by Inge_F

I haven't driven it yet, probably never will, but to call it useless for track days is a bit harsh don't you think?

I called it useless because it is precisely that. Useless. Entirely useless. It's not harsh at all, it's simply the reality.

Originally Posted by Inge_F

I don't know the rate its able to regenerate power during braking and partly power-demand situations, but I believe that there will always be some el. power available.

Once the battery is empty, it's empty. It can only be recharged by plugging it into a charger or having the petrol engine recharge it partially, which will obviously reduce the petrol engine's power.

Which means that after a couple minutes on the track you're left with a 231hp three cylinder engine. And I don't know about you, but that's my definition of "useless".

Originally Posted by Inge_F

And you will always have the possibility to do like one re-charge lap for every two hot-laps for example, like they do in F1 these days. Don't think Lewis H. call his car useless for that reason..

Let's not compare F1 and streetcars here, that's entirely unreasonable.

You can't recharge the i8 battery quickly, which means either you take a break of several hours to be able to drive another 2 minutes, or you simply take another car that has been designed as a sports car and not as a technological showcar with a nicely designed body.

The i8 wouldn't even be able to finish half a lap on the Nordschleife without the electrical engine being useless due to the drained battery. I think this answers any doubts you could harbor about its performance as a "track car".

And that's ok because it's not designed with that purpose in mind. But one shouldn't think it's a sportscar just because it looks like one.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by Carac

You would probably complain that supermodels are bad at weightlifting too. You are applying your "standards of excellence" (laps times on a track) to a car where they are moot; not judging it based on what it was engineered and built to do (offer a currently unmatched combination of sporty driving, fuel economy, cutting edge tech and materials, bold styling, and sustainable production with wind and hydro powered production plants). That doesn't mean the car is deficient...your expectations are.

Exactly.

If you want a real sportscar - i.e. that you can use on a track for a day or so, which doesn't lose almost half its power once you floor it for a while on the Autobahn, or with which you can drive on a few mountain passes without plugging it into a wall socket for a few hours in order to have all its power available - then you need to buy something else.

If that's not what you want to do, and you're happy with a futuristic looking car that has a nice suspension setup for some fun in a few corners and that is all about sustainability and pushing the envelope on the hybrid idea, then the i8 is just the thing. Whether it's worth its price tag is another question and will in the end only depend on everyone's personal preferences.

[dr.sb]

Shall we wait for the i8S? If it meets the R8 and 911 or is even a second off the pace and priced even 15-20% more than the 911 and has 40-50% better fuel efficiency etc with the technology, then I would go for the i8S. I imagine the i8s will come with thicker tires etc.

The i8 is actually never made to really compete on track with the R8, or atleast we all know it can't. It does drive fantastically though and no one can deny that. If they can push the 0-60 quicker and make it R8 fast, I have my deposit ready for a £130-150k specced car. Hence I have held out on a 911.

Sunny