[RocGuy]

I cannot find the answer to this question anywhere really. Does anyone know how much the range extender actually extends the miles you can drive? Does this turn the i3 into a car I can use for an all day road trip? Without having to stop to charge it for 3 hours... ??

[jadnashuanh]

No, the REx only has a small gas tank, but it is said to extend the range by about 100%. After that, you'd be stopping about every 100-miles or so to refill the tank, AND, depending on the driving, your trip may be more reserved...it depends on where and how you are driving...the motor is not all that big, and while it can provide enough current to keep you going probably on the flat, should you have a long incline, you might find out your speed drops off.

The car is not designed for a long trip...it is explicitly stated that it is designed as a city car, or near the city, for typical commuting distances. Testing has said through the electric mini and other BMW electric vehicles, that most people only drove them around a max of 34-miles a day, about 1/3 of the normal battery capacity. The REx is for those that might have range anxiety, and maybe decide to take a side trip on the way home and won't have to worry about running out of juice.

The i8, and other future I-series cars may be a 'normal' car replacement, but the i3 is not.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by RocGuy

I cannot find the answer to this question anywhere really. Does anyone know how much the range extender actually extends the miles you can drive? Does this turn the i3 into a car I can use for an all day road trip? Without having to stop to charge it for 3 hours... ??

What you are looking for is an Extended Range Electric Vehicle. The Chevrolet Volt is such a vehicle. It has a 38 mile electric range and a 300 mile gas-powered range. People without badge-anxiety buy them and love them.

[jadnashuanh]

There is good reason to have dedicated vehicles for various jobs just like you shouldn't use a pair of pliers to remove a tight nut, you shouldn't try to use a dedicated city car for a long trip. You could do it, but it would be awkward, and you'd have to accept the consequences of extended stops (unless you could find fast charging stations along your route and bought the car with that option).

FWIW, I tried to get into a Chevy Volt, and couldn't! At least, not without invoking severe neck and back issues. GM's QA/QC has improved, but I still take issue with it - their attitude (look at the current recall and Congressional actions for GM) has been less than stellar towards the consumer. It's not that they can't make a good product, it's that for a long time, the bean counters were in charge, and dragged the whole thing down. It takes a long time to weed out the problems and readjust the attitudes.

Plus, my goal for a run around town car is to avoid the short distance, cold start issues with my ICE, which I would keep once I find an electric I can live with...the issue is still open on the i3 since I haven't had a chance to try one out. But, it would meet 90% of my driving needs if I, and the things I like to carry, all fit well.

[bozola]

I want to buy one, but my commute is 50 miles. REX or not?
I3 or not?

[jadnashuanh]

100-miles round trip? I'd buy the REx, or a different car. Especially in the winter, I do not think you'd make it without the REx, and you'd be close to empty under normal circumstances in Comfort mode. You might make it without, but it would be very tight, and you'd have to probably run in Eco or Eco Pro mode, which progressively disables some functions (like heat, except when the windshield gets foggy, and max speed, and max acceleration). Now, if you could talk your employer to install a charging station, or park where there is one, no problem.

Luckily, I do not have a commute, and most of my trips are either to the park, the doctor, or shopping, and those are all close. I'd use my ICE for longer trips out of the area, or if I needed to carry more.

The i3 is not designed as an only car for most people, but it can provide the needed transportation most of the time for many. Either rent a car for those vacations, or when you need something that can travel further, or opt for the BMW program that includes that, or keep your old vehicle. Personally, I do not see many people buying this as their only vehicle except for the dedicated city dweller, or someone close enough to be able to use it for the vast majority of their driving needs. It is smaller for a reason, and they limited the max range for many reasons (price, weight, size, primarily).

Using an electric vehicle in a dense city environment has few disadvantages and many advantages: it's small, doesn't pollute, has better acceleration to city speeds than most cars, and can zip here and there without issue (at least in the i3). Good turning circle, decent room at least for two, and acceptable for 4 for a commute, along with a nice cabin. Enough room for getting groceries on the way home, too. Over time, more and more workplaces and retail locations will have chargers, and you can top off while getting your coffee or lunch, or shopping, thus removing some of the round-trip limitations, but early adopters will be at a disadvantage while that infrastructure is built up. But, if you look at the number of charging stations in place over the last few years, it is growing rapidly, and will do it even faster as more electric vehicles are delivered.

[bozola]

Sorry. 50 miles round trip

[jadnashuanh]

50-miles seems to be well within the worst case winter range of the i3. Now, that's totally speculation, but seems in line with those who have them in Europe as reported so far. No idea what will happen as the battery ages...they haven't been around long enough, but BMW does have a long battery warranty. I haven't read the conditions on when it applies, but when you don't stress the battery (BMW won't let it discharge as far as it could), and manage the recharging, they can last a very long time.

So, buying anything new is somewhat of a leap in faith. I may take it, but that's still to be seen. I get my first chance to drive one next month when the test fleet makes its round to my local dealer. I'll likely have time to make a decision, but they aren't making all that many this year - procrastination may make the decision to wait for you and me.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

There is good reason to have dedicated vehicles for various jobs just like you shouldn't use a pair of pliers to remove a tight nut, you shouldn't try to use a dedicated city car for a long trip. You could do it, but it would be awkward, and you'd have to accept the consequences of extended stops (unless you could find fast charging stations along your route and bought the car with that option).

FWIW, I tried to get into a Chevy Volt, and couldn't! At least, not without invoking severe neck and back issues. GM's QA/QC has improved, but I still take issue with it - their attitude (look at the current recall and Congressional actions for GM) has been less than stellar towards the consumer. It's not that they can't make a good product, it's that for a long time, the bean counters were in charge, and dragged the whole thing down. It takes a long time to weed out the problems and readjust the attitudes.

Plus, my goal for a run around town car is to avoid the short distance, cold start issues with my ICE, which I would keep once I find an electric I can live with...the issue is still open on the i3 since I haven't had a chance to try one out. But, it would meet 90% of my driving needs if I, and the things I like to carry, all fit well.

Oh, I forgot, BMW has never had a recall on any of its car models. But GM has, so the Volt is a low-quality car (and apparently one you can't fit in), I get it now. Seems to me I remember BMW only taking action on the HPFP issue once 60 minutes did a story on it and a lawsuit was threatened. And BMW is a company that can't even make a gas-turbo engine without the wastegates rattling themselves to death, and now has decided to make every car in it's line up turbocharged. There's confidence for you. I wonder how long it will take BMW to figure out how to make good turbos and fuel pumps; how long do you think we should wait? And I've been monitoring BMW's website for a job opportunity just in case they ever decide to start up an accounting department.

LOL

[jadnashuanh]

The issue with GM was, a problem was identified, and they continued to use the same design for many years...this is a management issue. It is impossible to build something and have it perfect in any quantity. The difference is, how do you handle it, both in perpetuating the issue, or trying to solve it, and what you do with those that are inconvenienced by the problem...I think BMW has done a better job than GM in this arena.

My goal for a city car would be no ICE...therefore, no oil to change, gasoline to buy, spark plugs to replace, oil filter to deal with, no cold start extra wear and tear on the engine, oil, exhaust system, etc. By definition, a city car isn't expected to deal with extended distance trips, or carry the luggage and quantity of people you may need when say going on vacation or to grandma's house for Thanksgiving. Adding the REx to the i3 negates some of those goals, and for me, anyway, would be less than the ideal. Same with the Volt with its ICE. The Volt was designed as a more efficient ICE, not as a dedicated city car. Their purpose and use are different.

The Volt is a neat device, with a quite complicated transmission, an ICE, and all the issues with maintenance of any ICE, and some of the benefits. It just so happens, it doesn't meet my needs or desires. If it does yours, go for it.

[tiburonh]

Originally Posted by bozola

Sorry. 50 miles round trip

For a 50 mile round trip, unless you are driving at 75 mph or more, and going up a mountain both coming and going, and using all the electrically powered accessories at their highest levels, you absolutely should be fine!

[bozola]

I drove one today. On my purchase list.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

The issue with GM was, a problem was identified, and they continued to use the same design for many years...this is a management issue. It is impossible to build something and have it perfect in any quantity. The difference is, how do you handle it, both in perpetuating the issue, or trying to solve it, and what you do with those that are inconvenienced by the problem...I think BMW has done a better job than GM in this arena.

My goal for a city car would be no ICE...therefore, no oil to change, gasoline to buy, spark plugs to replace, oil filter to deal with, no cold start extra wear and tear on the engine, oil, exhaust system, etc. By definition, a city car isn't expected to deal with extended distance trips, or carry the luggage and quantity of people you may need when say going on vacation or to grandma's house for Thanksgiving. Adding the REx to the i3 negates some of those goals, and for me, anyway, would be less than the ideal. Same with the Volt with its ICE. The Volt was designed as a more efficient ICE, not as a dedicated city car. Their purpose and use are different.

The Volt is a neat device, with a quite complicated transmission, an ICE, and all the issues with maintenance of any ICE, and some of the benefits. It just so happens, it doesn't meet my needs or desires. If it does yours, go for it.

Based on what the OP originally asked: if the i3 REX will provide for an "all day road trip", which it won't, I gave the OP a reasonable alternative. You come in, personalize the issue with saying you don't fit in the Volt (somehow that makes the car bad for everyone else) and then shit on GM (which currently has as good build quality as BMW does) because of one recall issue and how they handle it. BMW has a safety issue on the 3-series where the subframe damages the drive belt (and can cause the drivetrain to lock up) and hasn't issued any recall to this date. BMW has a second recall on 3-series passenger seat object passenger detection system, which may prevent the passenger airbag from activating properly. But hey it's BMW, so a 2-month delay, which I've experienced so far, in fixing the problem is okay (dang management executives!); hope no one dies while we all wait for parts.

From what I've read about the GM ignition switch recall is the issue apparently relates to people who have an abnormal weight of keys on their key ring, which overcomes the switch lockout device (if you read GMs response on their website they suggest until the recall can be addressed the owner's vehicle, to remove all extraneous keys from the ignition key ring).

I'll also point out that GM, when it was discovered with the Volt (during a battery of Government crash tests on the same vehicle) that in a rare side impact event that may cause a chassis spar to possibly impale the battery box (and after the same crash-test Volt was then subjected to the NHSTB rollover test to check for containment of vehicle fluids), where the test Volt caught fire 3-weeks after the test (when it was improperly stored without first depleting the battery energy), GM immediately issued a voluntary recall and fixed the issue by adding extra protection around the battery box where the spar is. But GM management sucks and the i3 is a better car for someone who actually wants to drive farther than 80 miles. I get it now.

And WTF does a complicated transmission have to do with anything?

[jadnashuanh]

Assuming I wanted or needed a car for running around the city or short trips around home, I would not want a Volt. The Volt is a reasonable choice if you can only support one vehicle, as it can be used on extended trips. But, my gripe as a city car is that the engine still can come on, and cold starts are not the greatest thing for an ICE. The i3, without the REx, does not have any of those issues, but is limited to its intended purpose.

My issue with GM goes beyond what I mentioned, but it was not relevant to the discussion. Things are better than they were, but the vehicles are just not engineered as well IMHO...the fact that I don't fit into the Volt is just an aside...for those that do, and it performs for your desires, great. That's why there are hundreds of different makes and models out there...hopefully, something that meets your requirements. On the i3, you can't get much simpler than a single speed transmission with no sharing of power with the ICE like is possible with the Volt. While the Volt's design in that manner is a neat engineering reason to make it more efficient, the i3's design doesn't ever use the ICE for any part of propulsion, only to power the generator. On the Volt, the engine normally only drives the generator, but in some circumstances can supply some of the propulsion and charge the batteries, thus the comment on that it is complicated managing the electric motor, the ICE, and the generator, all linked into the same mechanical box. There's no direct mechanical connection between the i3's ICE and the electric propulsion system, it is entirely electrical, feeding juice to the batteries.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

Assuming I wanted or needed a car for running around the city or short trips around home, I would not want a Volt. The Volt is a reasonable choice if you can only support one vehicle, as it can be used on extended trips. But, my gripe as a city car is that the engine still can come on, and cold starts are not the greatest thing for an ICE. The i3, without the REx, does not have any of those issues, but is limited to its intended purpose.

My issue with GM goes beyond what I mentioned, but it was not relevant to the discussion. Things are better than they were, but the vehicles are just not engineered as well IMHO...the fact that I don't fit into the Volt is just an aside...for those that do, and it performs for your desires, great. That's why there are hundreds of different makes and models out there...hopefully, something that meets your requirements. On the i3, you can't get much simpler than a single speed transmission with no sharing of power with the ICE like is possible with the Volt. While the Volt's design in that manner is a neat engineering reason to make it more efficient, the i3's design doesn't ever use the ICE for any part of propulsion, only to power the generator. On the Volt, the engine normally only drives the generator, but in some circumstances can supply some of the propulsion and charge the batteries, thus the comment on that it is complicated managing the electric motor, the ICE, and the generator, all linked into the same mechanical box. There's no direct mechanical connection between the i3's ICE and the electric propulsion system, it is entirely electrical, feeding juice to the batteries.

I just don't get your issue with the internal combustion engine. You make it sound like cold starts are the death knell. 10's of millions ICEs have survived cold starts for the past 120 years or so with reliability in the multiple hundreds of thousands of miles. The OP seems to need a car that is not city-constrained, hence his original question; the i3 seems not to fit his needs and the Volt seems to fit them quite well.

[jadnashuanh]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I just don't get your issue with the internal combustion engine. You make it sound like cold starts are the death knell. 10's of millions ICEs have survived cold starts for the past 120 years or so with reliability in the multiple hundreds of thousands of miles. The OP seems to need a car that is not city-constrained, hence his original question; the i3 seems not to fit his needs and the Volt seems to fit them quite well.

I live within about 3-miles of 90% of my destinations...they often take awhile after arrival, so coming back home, it's a cold start as well. Cars just don't fair well with lots of them. Certainly, when you get things fully warmed up on a regular basis, the fact you started cold is mostly irrelevant, but neither the battery, the oil, nor the exhaust like the preponderance of the trips to be cold, especially in a cold climate. So, an all-electric for those, is a means of extending the life of both.