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      05-05-2014, 05:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l888apex
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut
Great stuff. Wake me up when you can fully charge one in less than 30 minutes.
Ok well wake up buddy...it gets to 80% in 20 min with DC Fast Charge Option 4U7
LOL

Good luck finding one that is in fact compatible to this car.

They are mostly nonexistent.

CHAdeMO is the current standard!!

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      05-05-2014, 06:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 24v256
About time. I'm a longshoreman and we unloaded about 200 of these here in nj about 2 months Ago. They're pretty fun to drive, the acceleration is pretty quick!
Good to know for future I3 owners that their new unbroken cars were being driven hard and thoroughly tested by port staff #TMI
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      05-05-2014, 06:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
LOL

Good luck finding one that is in fact compatible to this car.

They are mostly nonexistent.

CHAdeMO is the current standard!!

Most of the plug-in vehicles either being sold or planned to be sold in the next year or two have announced they will use the same connector that BMW chose - they did that for a reason. Nissan Leaf and Tesla have not, at this time, decided to switch. Around where I live, there are more J1772 stations than the alternatives, and none within 100-miles for a Tesla.

As to who and how often you'll get to provide DC fast charging capability to plug in, it's hard to say, but they are coming, but only useful if you have one near you and decided to buy the optional ability for the vehicle. I live all of a bout 1/4-mile from a BMW dealer...not sure what they are putting in, but they have at least two installed now, and don't have any cars yet...demand will dictate how big and how fast the charging network expands. The car manufacturers are likely to be promoting that, if not helping to subsidize it.

BMW's liquid cooling and battery conditioning system is not unique, but isn't then norm - it can go a long ways toward helping to extend the life of the batteries.

One thing to keep in mind, most people will not be regularly trying to recharge the vehicle from near empty, so your time to fully recharge will likely not be the extremes listed. If I remember from the sticker just approved, it says 4-hours for a full recharge. Something not everyone realizes, is that even with level two charge points, they all do not source the max current the vehicle can accept, so that might affect your overall charge time as well.

If I were to put one in, I'd probably consider putting one in that could provide the max the standard allows, then, I'd not have to change it down the line as battery tech or the on-board charging circuits become more capable. Right now, the most the i3 can accept on a level 2 charge point is 32A, but the standard allows for over twice that current.

Last edited by jadnashuanh; 05-05-2014 at 06:23 PM..
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      05-05-2014, 07:33 PM   #26
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It's a bit like GSM for phones. CCS has been adopted as the European standard. The Japanese will be adopting the same standard and then..... who knows Tesla may rule. ;-)
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      05-05-2014, 11:14 PM   #27
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      05-05-2014, 11:40 PM   #28
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And this is cool why? They look terrible....
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      05-06-2014, 02:47 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
LOL

Good luck finding one that is in fact compatible to this car.

They are mostly nonexistent.

CHAdeMO is the current standard!!

Most of the plug-in vehicles either being sold or planned to be sold in the next year or two have announced they will use the same connector that BMW chose - they did that for a reason. Nissan Leaf and Tesla have not, at this time, decided to switch. Around where I live, there are more J1772 stations than the alternatives, and none within 100-miles for a Tesla.

As to who and how often you'll get to provide DC fast charging capability to plug in, it's hard to say, but they are coming, but only useful if you have one near you and decided to buy the optional ability for the vehicle. I live all of a bout 1/4-mile from a BMW dealer...not sure what they are putting in, but they have at least two installed now, and don't have any cars yet...demand will dictate how big and how fast the charging network expands. The car manufacturers are likely to be promoting that, if not helping to subsidize it.

BMW's liquid cooling and battery conditioning system is not unique, but isn't then norm - it can go a long ways toward helping to extend the life of the batteries.

One thing to keep in mind, most people will not be regularly trying to recharge the vehicle from near empty, so your time to fully recharge will likely not be the extremes listed. If I remember from the sticker just approved, it says 4-hours for a full recharge. Something not everyone realizes, is that even with level two charge points, they all do not source the max current the vehicle can accept, so that might affect your overall charge time as well.

If I were to put one in, I'd probably consider putting one in that could provide the max the standard allows, then, I'd not have to change it down the line as battery tech or the on-board charging circuits become more capable. Right now, the most the i3 can accept on a level 2 charge point is 32A, but the standard allows for over twice that current.
BMW is installing 220 Level 2 Chargers at all it's North American Dealers.

Apartment and condo dwellers are going to be quite limited for some tine to come.
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      05-06-2014, 02:48 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonville
It's a bit like GSM for phones. CCS has been adopted as the European standard. The Japanese will be adopting the same standard and then..... who knows Tesla may rule. ;-)
Absolutely correct observation.

It's funny isn't it...
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      05-06-2014, 08:33 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24v256 View Post
Who said anything about them driven hard?? We don't even go above 30mph.. Don't be ignorant. Also it's pretty easy to notice if a car accelerates quick or not when you are driving it down a street even without flooring it. If you drive one I think you'll see what I mean, they feel very torquey
My message here is not to be troublesome but rather promote care in what you post here. Making a statement as you did "They're pretty fun to drive, the acceleration is pretty quick!", which by the way I see you deleted the post, is a very leading statement toward spirited driving and not something I would want to know as it is always a buyers worst fear that cars are mishandled during shipping and processing. No worries man just use care. I have no doubt the cars will have a lot of torque and I think there was even a video of an I3 a little while back racing an E-90 and being ahead until about 30-35 mph.
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      05-06-2014, 08:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suave
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24v256 View Post
Who said anything about them driven hard?? We don't even go above 30mph.. Don't be ignorant. Also it's pretty easy to notice if a car accelerates quick or not when you are driving it down a street even without flooring it. If you drive one I think you'll see what I mean, they feel very torquey
My message here is not to be troublesome but rather promote care in what you post here. Making a statement as you did "They're pretty fun to drive, the acceleration is pretty quick!", which by the way I see you deleted the post, is a very leading statement toward spirited driving and not something I would want to know as it is always a buyers worst fear that cars are mishandled during shipping and processing. No worries man just use care. I have no doubt the cars will have a lot of torque and I think there was even a video of an I3 a little while back racing an E-90 and being ahead until about 30-35 mph.
Yes, they are a one gear wonder !
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      05-06-2014, 08:42 AM   #33
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I can see how it could be misunderstood reading it online, especially with the use of an exclamation point, lol. i just meant how noticeable the torque is, and they are a treat to get in after countless prius'. But Believe me we take excellent care of every car.

Last edited by RP256; 05-06-2014 at 09:21 AM..
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      05-06-2014, 10:44 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
Most of the plug-in vehicles either being sold or planned to be sold in the next year or two have announced they will use the same connector that BMW chose - they did that for a reason. Nissan Leaf and Tesla have not, at this time, decided to switch. Around where I live, there are more J1772 stations than the alternatives, and none within 100-miles for a Tesla.

As to who and how often you'll get to provide DC fast charging capability to plug in, it's hard to say, but they are coming, but only useful if you have one near you and decided to buy the optional ability for the vehicle. I live all of a bout 1/4-mile from a BMW dealer...not sure what they are putting in, but they have at least two installed now, and don't have any cars yet...demand will dictate how big and how fast the charging network expands. The car manufacturers are likely to be promoting that, if not helping to subsidize it.

BMW's liquid cooling and battery conditioning system is not unique, but isn't then norm - it can go a long ways toward helping to extend the life of the batteries.

One thing to keep in mind, most people will not be regularly trying to recharge the vehicle from near empty, so your time to fully recharge will likely not be the extremes listed. If I remember from the sticker just approved, it says 4-hours for a full recharge. Something not everyone realizes, is that even with level two charge points, they all do not source the max current the vehicle can accept, so that might affect your overall charge time as well.

If I were to put one in, I'd probably consider putting one in that could provide the max the standard allows, then, I'd not have to change it down the line as battery tech or the on-board charging circuits become more capable. Right now, the most the i3 can accept on a level 2 charge point is 32A, but the standard allows for over twice that current.
Tesla will have Chademo adapter shortly, so no need to switch
Pretty quick charging, but still very limited in US
It's pretty much standard in EU though
At the moment, J1772 is the most popular one
And for Tesla, it's their network of Superchargers, which is fastest known charging

P.S. I'm happy public is getting introduced to more EVs
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      05-06-2014, 03:14 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Yes, they are a one gear wonder !
Please tell me where in the USA you can get anywhere near the max speed of the i3 legally? And, where, in a city and its suburbs will you need that speed? And why do people here complain about speed limiters when, unless they pick the car up in Germany (and, drive it enough to get past the breakin period) would ever have a chance of approaching that limit? It only limits it in top gear, so you have the full range.

The thing is designed as a city car, with maybe a short side-trip either from or to the country. It is not designed as a general purpose car, a track car for the weekends, or to beat people in drag races, but it will do quite well in the city canyons - far better than the Leaf, Ford, and Volt smaller options, and makes the smart electric look pretty poor, too.

When, and if, BMW makes an i-car for general purpose in a family size, it will probably be a hybrid until the battery technology improves considerably and the recharging infrastructure is much better. It's one thing for Tesla to say you can go shore to shore, but your route may not go anywhere near where you'd like to go. That will change, assuming they don't fold in the future before reaching that tipping point. With China and other countries' wealth increasing, and the demand for gasoline keeps rising, another, renewable source of energy and a vehicle that can use it will become more and more important. There will always be uses for oil, but we make lots more out of it than just fuel for our transportation.

Certainly, BMW could have given the i3 another gear or so, and increased max speed, but at what cost and benefit? More weight, means less range, and more complexity means more money and reliability. Just how much simpler is a single speed transmission verses any other choice? Lots. It will always be heavier, which means either more batteries, or less range. Why would you need it if you can reach 93mph in the first place? The i8 has it, but it can reach 155mph, and that would put the single speed motor at unreliable rotation rates. That limit is there for a reason. Again, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but for its intended use, it isn't a limiting factor, and is indeed a benefit to keep costs down and range up.
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      05-07-2014, 08:40 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Yes, they are a one gear wonder !
Please tell me where in the USA you can get anywhere near the max speed of the i3 legally? And, where, in a city and its suburbs will you need that speed? And why do people here complain about speed limiters when, unless they pick the car up in Germany (and, drive it enough to get past the breakin period) would ever have a chance of approaching that limit? It only limits it in top gear, so you have the full range.

The thing is designed as a city car, with maybe a short side-trip either from or to the country. It is not designed as a general purpose car, a track car for the weekends, or to beat people in drag races, but it will do quite well in the city canyons - far better than the Leaf, Ford, and Volt smaller options, and makes the smart electric look pretty poor, too.

When, and if, BMW makes an i-car for general purpose in a family size, it will probably be a hybrid until the battery technology improves considerably and the recharging infrastructure is much better. It's one thing for Tesla to say you can go shore to shore, but your route may not go anywhere near where you'd like to go. That will change, assuming they don't fold in the future before reaching that tipping point. With China and other countries' wealth increasing, and the demand for gasoline keeps rising, another, renewable source of energy and a vehicle that can use it will become more and more important. There will always be uses for oil, but we make lots more out of it than just fuel for our transportation.

Certainly, BMW could have given the i3 another gear or so, and increased max speed, but at what cost and benefit? More weight, means less range, and more complexity means more money and reliability. Just how much simpler is a single speed transmission verses any other choice? Lots. It will always be heavier, which means either more batteries, or less range. Why would you need it if you can reach 93mph in the first place? The i8 has it, but it can reach 155mph, and that would put the single speed motor at unreliable rotation rates. That limit is there for a reason. Again, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but for its intended use, it isn't a limiting factor, and is indeed a benefit to keep costs down and range up.
I personally am fine doing 93 in 1 gear. Like you said, not sure where one can do that legally, but just knowing it can get there, is enough for me. Those tires are another story.
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      05-09-2014, 10:50 AM   #37
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Sorry for a long first post, but here's a summary with the REX version of the BMW i3 might make sense for a lot of people - especially if it's the only car in a household:

Quote:
A list of good reasons to purchase a BMW i3 REX

1. It is incredibly inexpensive. You cannot find a liquid cooled, highly efficient, staggeringly low emission 34 hp gen-set anywhere for $3,850, much less one that imposes no volume penalty, and integrates seamlessly with the i3's electrical system.


2. It imposes a negligible weight penalty, slowing the zero to sixty time by only 0.8 seconds (still quicker than any other EV except the Teslas), and increasing the fuel consumption to carry the additional weight by only 4.65% (seehttp://http://bit.ly/16D8ajm) or roughly $129 (assuming $0.11/kWh) over the course of 100,000 miles


3. It eliminates the cost to rent or own and maintain a gasoline fueled vehicle for trips beyond a BEVs electric range.


4. It eliminates both the embedded and produced pollution caused by renting or owning a gasoline fueled vehicle for trips beyond a BEVs electric range.


5. It allows for a greater ratio of EV to gasoline powered driving for any given size battery bank:
- For EV only trips, it allows for full use of the battery's capacity, as the driver need not hold any EV range in reserve
- For trips beyond the range of a BEV, it allows for not only EV use, but use of the battery pack's full capacity. Consider a trip of 110 miles, only 100 of which could be reached by a BEV in its most economical mode. The BEV would stay in the garage, and the gasoline powered vehicle would travel the full 110 miles on gasoline only. A REx would be able to travel approximately 90 miles on electrical power, and need to travel only 20 miles using gasoline.


6. A BEV is limited to travel only between charging opportunities, making most trips outside of a roughly 30 mile radius inconvenient (3.5 hour wait to charge), and many trips impossible (no realistic charging opportunity). A REx can travel pretty much from any point on a map to any other point on the map conveniently with only a few minute stop for fuel every hour.


7. The REx offers the flexibility to change plans as situations change. An unexpected errand that would be impossible for a BEV to include in its planned range for the day would not even be a second thought for a REx


8. Certified morons like myself occasionally forget to plug the car in at night. A REx would get me to work the next day with no issues, whereas doing the same with a BEV would cost me over $150 in cab fare.


9. The battery range degrades tremendously as temperature drops - not so with the REx.


10. The battery capacity degrades with time and use - not so with the REx. A trip that you might be able to make on a brand new battery may be impossible 8 years and 100,000 miles from now when the battery will have degraded to as little as 70% of original capacity (BMW's warranty figure).
I think this was first posted on Tom's i3 blog in the comment section (I don't have the link at the moment).

As a summary, a REX could bridge the gap for people interested in electric vehicles without the range anxiety or other inconvience.

Last edited by volt12; 05-09-2014 at 11:07 AM..
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      05-09-2014, 11:05 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
LOL

Good luck finding one that is in fact compatible to this car.

They are mostly nonexistent.

CHAdeMO is the current standard!!

To be fair, Chademo also started with zero outlets back in 2010. Here's the uptake of Chademo in Japan and globally since 2010, quite rapid:

http://www.chademo.com/wp/wp-content...ingstation.pdf

Since more brands are behind CCS I expect a similar if not faster uptake for that "Western" standard.

ABB and other vendors now sell multi-standard chargers with both Chademo and CCS plugs in the same outlet:

http://chargedevs.com/newswire/north...fast-chargers/

I think by around 2020 the lack of fast-charging station issue will be over in most countries.

I guess all i3 buyers should get the car with the CCS charger option (except for maybe the REX version), it will probably be worth for the resale value as more CCS stations pop up in Europe and North America.
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      05-09-2014, 02:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volt12
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
LOL

Good luck finding one that is in fact compatible to this car.

They are mostly nonexistent.

CHAdeMO is the current standard!!

To be fair, Chademo also started with zero outlets back in 2010. Here's the uptake of Chademo in Japan and globally since 2010, quite rapid:

http://www.chademo.com/wp/wp-content...ingstation.pdf

Since more brands are behind CCS I expect a similar if not faster uptake for that "Western" standard.

ABB and other vendors now sell multi-standard chargers with both Chademo and CCS plugs in the same outlet:

http://chargedevs.com/newswire/north...fast-chargers/

I think by around 2020 the lack of fast-charging station issue will be over in most countries.

I guess all i3 buyers should get the car with the CCS charger option (except for maybe the REX version), it will probably be worth for the resale value as more CCS stations pop up in Europe and North America.
So for years to come it's going to suck until there are enough of these new plugs common enough to make it worth owning for much other than very basic short use.
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      05-10-2014, 06:34 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
So for years to come it's going to suck until there are enough of these new plugs common enough to make it worth owning for much other than very basic short use.
I guess it depends on the country and your driving needs. Some Euro countries like the Netherlands, the UK and Germany are rolling out many CCS stations this year and next year.

Small countries in Europe are already covered well with CCS stations on BMW dealer lots (at least BMW dealers who sell i3 cars are required to set up CCS stations as far as I know).

As regular EV drivers can tell, the charging statistics probably look like this for most Ev drivers:

70-90% Charging at home in your own garage (mostly overnight, very convenient)
10-30% Charging at the place of work, shopping malls or on transit/road trips

Even in the 10-30% of use cases there are a lot of slow charging needs (destination charging when people arrive at a hotel, their place of work during the day etc.)

Therefore fast CCS/Chademo charging stations are only needed a few times per month or even per year.

This is different to gas/diesel car owners in absolute need of gas stations in their area.

Fewer electric charging stations are needed to cover an area and they are used less often (as long as EV owners have a garage or other personal parking space where they can recharge their car)

For people who drive longer distances a few times per year, a REX car is probably the better option (see my long post above about REX advantages).

I can only recommend skeptics who never drove an EV to take a test drive in an i3, it's a great car, especially in a city and in the suburbs for daily commutes.

Last edited by volt12; 05-11-2014 at 03:06 AM..
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      05-21-2014, 06:19 PM   #41
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The Rex version is now also being delivered in the US...

http://insideevs.com/first-us-bmw-i3-rex-delivery/

Official ratings: BMW i3 REx Gets Official EPA Rating – Electric Range Of 72 Miles, Gas Only MPG Is 39

http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-rex-offi...tric-range-72/
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      05-23-2014, 11:06 AM   #42
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Test driving a couple of i3's today. Can't wait.
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      05-25-2014, 11:09 PM   #43
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Saw one here driving around, I like the integrated tail lights doesn't look bad at all
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