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      10-28-2013, 11:41 AM   #23
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And thus it begins...

Munich. The TV campaign for the BMW i3, the BMW Group’s first series-produced, pure-electric vehicle, got underway on last weekend in all relevant European markets. The BMW i3 will debut on the market on 16 November 2013.

The BMW i3 TV commercial “Decisions” opens over the skyscrapers of Chicago; the camera swoops down to focus in on two cars driving side-by-side through the backstreets of the city – a BMW i3 and a BMW i8. The narrator talks about the future-shaping decisions the company had to make to reinvent the automobile from the ground up – to create an electric vehicle with a passenger cell made of carbon fibre offering a range of intelligent mobility services. Each fundamental choice is visualised as the cars change direction at junctions. As the decisions become more concrete and more detailed, the camera zooms in closer on the BMW i3.

The camera finally peers inside the car through the rear window. It shows the interior as it drives with the viewer along the road. Now, at the latest, it becomes clear what is unique about this commercial: It is a so-called “one taker”, with no breaks in the film to interrupt the camera’s long flight, which starts over the roofs of the city and continues through the car to reveal the BMW i3 in all its uniqueness at the end.

This seamless camera tracking was made possible using a helicopter in combination with the latest cinema-quality 3D animation technology. The BMW i TV commercial was shot on location in Chicago. The creative agency responsible is Dorten (Berlin/Stuttgart), with film production by Hochkant Film (Munich). The music comes from young Munich band Claire with their track “Horizon”.

Uwe Dreher, responsible for global marketing communications for the BMW i, sums up: “The new TV spot is the highpoint of our BMW i3 launch campaign. The viewer experiences the lengthy decision-making process behind the BMW i3 in fast motion, so that, at the end, it feels like you are right inside the car. The film will make viewers eager to experience for themselves the fascinating and unique driving feeling and typical BMW driving pleasure the electric BMW i3 has to offer.”

The team also produced a number of short films to communicate specific product information about the BMW i3. These focus on the BMW i3’s unique key features, such as BMW eDrive, BMW Connected Drive, interior design and home charging. The six 15-second spots are designed to showcase the BMW i3’s everyday driveability and encourage viewers to take a test drive to discover the BMW i3 for themselves.



Or English.

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      10-28-2013, 01:39 PM   #24
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Wait, a marketing hack wasn't totally honest? Call Breitbart!

I know what you're driving at, but I'm not sure I agree with it. BMW isn't solely about sales volume, but rather profitability and staying independent. The i cars are a huge financial burden and a huge risk, but if the gamble pays off, it extends their time as one of very few independent car manufacturers. Whether that matters, or provides cars that you or I want to buy, is possibly another conversation, but that same marketing hack likely sees some value in it, even if we might not.
Independent from what, Rolls Royce, Mini, Toyota?
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      10-29-2013, 06:38 AM   #25
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Scott26:
Was this what you refered to in this post:
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...2#post14764432

?
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      10-29-2013, 09:17 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by matbl View Post
Scott26:
Was this what you refered to in this post:
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...2#post14764432

?
No I was in Amsterdam preparing for the i3 press drives.
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      10-29-2013, 09:48 AM   #27
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Independent from what, Rolls Royce, Mini, Toyota?
Well they acquired Rolls, resurrected MINI and have a future joint product with Toyota. The Toyota link isn't an ownership interest, so yes, independent.
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      10-30-2013, 08:59 AM   #28
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Well they acquired Rolls, resurrected MINI and have a future joint product with Toyota. The Toyota link isn't an ownership interest, so yes, independent.
I think you have a misunderstanding of the word "independent" used in the context of the automobile industry. As recent as 5 years ago BMW used to publish adds that claimed it didn't have to make platform sharing compromises that other automotive companies have to make (i.e. VW/Audi; Lexus/Toyota; Lincoln/Ford; Chevrolet/Cadillac), because it only made BMWs (let's not bring into discussion the parts sharing between BMW platforms). BMW alluded that it could build uncompromised cars because it all its models were not shared platforms with other automotive brands. The upcoming 1 series shares platform with Mini. The 7-Series shares platform with Rolls Royce. Apparently BMW is now going to collaborate with Toyota. The term independent doesn't mean sole (public) ownership of a company as you infer; it means independent upon use of common platforms between automotive Brands (i.e. Toyota Camry /Lexus GS 350). BMW is no different than any other automotive corporation in this aspect; other than sheer scale (i.e. it is much smaller). And by the way BMW didn't resurrect Mini, it acquired it when the Rover Group was split up and sold (like it did with Rolls Royce). The New Mini was already being designed during ownership of the Mini brand by the Rover Group.

Using your definition then, Honda, VW, Ford, GM, Toyota, Daimler-Benz, Subaru, Fiat, just to name a few, are all independents as is BMW.
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      10-30-2013, 09:52 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Using your definition then, Honda, VW, Ford, GM, Toyota, Daimler-Benz, Subaru, Fiat, just to name a few, are all independents as is BMW.
INDEPENDENT:
a (1) : not subject to control by others : self-governing (2) : not affiliated with a larger controlling unit <an independent bookstore>

Does that help? No one owns BMW, aside from investors and the Quandts. And yes, the companies you listed (except Subie) are indeed independent.

Just for reference, some that aren't and have been consumed by others include Rolls, Porsche, Mini (part of what was formerly Rover), Land Rover (also part of Rover, but no longer part of BMW), Aston Martin, Jaguar, etc.

In other words, no one in Japan, or the US, or France, calls the shots for BMW. I hardly think a single sports car platform being shared with Toyota will have much of impact on BMW's decisions, but perhaps it is the first chip in the wall, we'll see.

What I think you've mistaken for independent is solitary, or singular manufacturing. Lexus, Scion and soon Prius being brands of Toyota does not mean to anyone besides you and maybe some of your incorrectly informed friends that Toyota is in anyway something other than independent.
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      10-30-2013, 03:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
INDEPENDENT:
a (1) : not subject to control by others : self-governing (2) : not affiliated with a larger controlling unit <an independent bookstore>

Does that help? No one owns BMW, aside from investors and the Quandts. And yes, the companies you listed (except Subie) are indeed independent.

Just for reference, some that aren't and have been consumed by others include Rolls, Porsche, Mini (part of what was formerly Rover), Land Rover (also part of Rover, but no longer part of BMW), Aston Martin, Jaguar, etc.

In other words, no one in Japan, or the US, or France, calls the shots for BMW. I hardly think a single sports car platform being shared with Toyota will have much of impact on BMW's decisions, but perhaps it is the first chip in the wall, we'll see.

What I think you've mistaken for independent is solitary, or singular manufacturing. Lexus, Scion and soon Prius being brands of Toyota does not mean to anyone besides you and maybe some of your incorrectly informed friends that Toyota is in anyway something other than independent.
I was clear, the discussion is around the definition of independent when it viewed in the context of automotive companies and platform sharing among Brands of the same corporation. That is the context of what BMW tries to convey in its TV and print ads when it clamed it was free of the compromises of platform sharing. The ad campaign was squarely aimed at VW, who basically produces near 40 vehicles from one platform.

Also, using your definition in the context of automobile corporations, then well over a majority of companies are "independent", which then I ask what makes BMW unique? You wrote "The i cars are a huge financial burden and a huge risk, but if the gamble pays off, it extends their time as one of very few independent car manufacturers." So now I am confused about your previous statement, what exactly did you mean?
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      10-30-2013, 03:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
You wrote "The i cars are a huge financial burden and a huge risk, but if the gamble pays off, it extends their time as one of very few independent car manufacturers." So now I am confused about your previous statement, what exactly did you mean?
Well two things are at play here, BMW is one of few privately held car companies, and even including publicly held ones, there aren't exactly a ton of those, you'd have GM, Ford, Fiat, BMW, MB, VW, PSA, Hyundai, Honda and Toyota. I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two.

But let's say that BMW found themselves in financial difficulties. There are two levels of how they stand to lose their independence, by going public, but remaining essentially the same as they are now, BMW cars and motorcycles, MINI and Rolls, or by being acquired by one of the larger players, the latter being the more relevant towards this discussion.

tl;dr - in order for the Quandts to retain control of BMW, the i program needs to be successful. If it's not BMW would either need to transition to a publicly held company, or become part of a larger car company.

I'm guessing that the German appetite for investing in large ventures is slightly lower than it was a decade or more ago.
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      10-30-2013, 09:18 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Well two things are at play here, BMW is one of few privately held car companies, and even including publicly held ones, there aren't exactly a ton of those, you'd have GM, Ford, Fiat, BMW, MB, VW, PSA, Hyundai, Honda and Toyota. I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two.

But let's say that BMW found themselves in financial difficulties. There are two levels of how they stand to lose their independence, by going public, but remaining essentially the same as they are now, BMW cars and motorcycles, MINI and Rolls, or by being acquired by one of the larger players, the latter being the more relevant towards this discussion.

tl;dr - in order for the Quandts to retain control of BMW, the i program needs to be successful. If it's not BMW would either need to transition to a publicly held company, or become part of a larger car company.

I'm guessing that the German appetite for investing in large ventures is slightly lower than it was a decade or more ago.
Here's the breakdown of the publically held BMW AG corporation:

Shareholders structure

by ownership[19]
Stefan Quandt: 17.4%
Johanna Quandt: 16.7%
Susanne Klatten: 12.6%
Free Float: 53.3%

by types
Strategic investors: 46.7%
Institutional investors: North America: 15.8%
United Kingdom and Ireland: 11.8%
Other Europe: 5.7%
Germany: 4.8%
Rest of the world: 2.5%

Other investors: 12.7%

Not sure how this means it's a privately held corporation. The stock is traded on various exchanges across the globe.
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      10-31-2013, 08:52 AM   #33
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Just to keep this derailment in full swing.

The Quandts control a near majority, in business terms, it's safe to say they hold an effective majority. Factor in the board members and they can pretty well ignore any investor opinions.

Now force the sale of some of the Q's shares and it changes from a family controlled business to what would be considered a public company, driven by voting shares.

You don't want an i3, right?
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      11-01-2013, 06:30 PM   #34
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BMWs strategy is to remain independent. Each division undergoes a management briefing where we are told time and time again that Independence is what the company strives for.

Many would like BMW. It will be the ultimate trophy.
But the blue propeller will not be placed on any boardroom in Michigan or Wolfsburg for that matter. BMW in its current guise is actually worth twice more than Mercedes-Benz. BMW is the No 1 premium car manufacture in the world, sales rise thanks to new and exciting product and niche models. And in the coming months far more expansive product is coming both on a volume and niche scale.

BMW has MINI and Rolls-Royce. Brands that were completely reborn under great investment and focused products that changed the perception of these brands.
One shows the benefit of automobile culture and the genius of product marketing . The other is the epitome of high class luxury.
Consider a rival with the same modus operandi that has (Maybach) and continues to crash and burn (Smart)

BMWi is a substantial investment it starts with the BMWi brand but will spread through every BMW group model , whether its a BMW , Rolls-Royce and eventually a MINI. The company SGL is very much under control of the Quandts and the investigation and development to bring mass volume production of CFRP has brought other industries to their door wanting to take advantage of CFRP. This is when the investment begins to pay off.
As other specific "transport" industries have sought expertise in the purchase and application of CFRP for their own industries. As does the auto industry particular the BMW-Toyota agreement , which will announce first details of their joint project at the Tokyo autoshow in November.

Other automobile manufactures know this and they are pissed they have missed this opportunity. As with the i3 and i8 BMW control the narrative on premium electric mobility no one else is even close. Daimlers comments about the i3 against the B-Klasse were according to industry analysts, words of panic. Which is expected a response from BMW.

The i3 and i8 are cars of a different nature there is nothing out there to even match up to their ideas and thinking. Comparisons between Tesla are just comparisons because they are electric. BMW does not have a competitor for the Model S. (Yet) just as Tesla does not have a competitor for the i3 (yet).

Full figures of customer orders have not been revealed yet - an announcement is coming prior to the US/Japanese premieres.
But in Europe, order an i3 today you can expect to take delivery in time for next summer.
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      11-02-2013, 07:18 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Other automobile manufactures know this and they are pissed they have missed this opportunity. As with the i3 and i8 BMW control the narrative on premium electric mobility no one else is even close. Daimlers comments about the i3 against the B-Klasse were according to industry analysts, words of panic. Which is expected a response from BMW.
I disagree. I think that Tesla control the narrative on premium electric mobility. BMW is staring to catch up, I think they have passed the Japanese (incl Toyota) and is now 2nd. But not in control just yet.
And I read a lot (from different continents and in different languages) in this subject.

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Comparisons between Tesla are just comparisons because they are electric. BMW does not have a competitor for the Model S. (Yet)
Yet implies sometime in the future. So when?
That BMW (Model S competitor) is what I would love to swap my current 5-series touring (F11) for.
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      11-03-2013, 07:35 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Just to keep this derailment in full swing.

The Quandts control a near majority, in business terms, it's safe to say they hold an effective majority. Factor in the board members and they can pretty well ignore any investor opinions.

Now force the sale of some of the Q's shares and it changes from a family controlled business to what would be considered a public company, driven by voting shares.

You don't want an i3, right?
Seriously? Three different Quandts own an average about 15% of the stock each. Other than being on the board of directors, you really think they have control on where and how engineering is applied to either platform share between brands or not?

From a 2010 Forbes article on control of the Ford Motor Company:

"Today the Fords collectively own less than 2% of the automaker, but –as in 1956, when the company went public — they remain firmly in control with 40% of the voting power through a special class of stock."


So the Quandts collectively own 46.7% of BMW and the Ford Family (all 81 living decedents) control 40% of the stock voting power, are you going to say Ford Motor Corporation is any less independent than BMW?
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      11-03-2013, 09:09 AM   #37
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Do you like to argue just for the sake of it? Is your argument really that 80+ people are about the same as 3? Do you have kids or even venture outside occasionally? Surely you're just kidding?
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      11-04-2013, 03:26 PM   #38
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Do you like to argue just for the sake of it? Is your argument really that 80+ people are about the same as 3? Do you have kids or even venture outside occasionally? Surely you're just kidding?
No I don't like to argue for the sake of it. You haven't answered my original question. You've tried to tied some sort of minority of stock ownership by the Quandt family to enabling BMW to operate independently. I'd like to know: BMW wants to keep operating independently from what? BMW wants to remain independent from what, or who? My contention is BMW is no different than Ford, both corporations are run by a board of directors, both corporations have a management structure with a CEO at the top, and both companies manufacture several brands or automobiles that share components and platforms.
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      11-04-2013, 03:44 PM   #39
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No I don't like to argue for the sake of it. You haven't answered my original question. You've tried to tied some sort of minority of stock ownership by the Quandt family to enabling BMW to operate independently. I'd like to know: BMW wants to keep operating independently from what? BMW wants to remain independent from what, or who? My contention is BMW is no different than Ford, both corporations are run by a board of directors, both corporations have a management structure with a CEO at the top, and both companies manufacture several brands or automobiles that share components and platforms.
You're trying to argue that the Fords (or Waltons for that matter, as they're as divergent in ownership now) have a similar level of control as the Quandts. That's just not logical. If you don't see how three active family members owning a 46+% share of the stock (and we're just talking common stock, not voting shares) is different than a disparate group of 50+ people with small piece meal shares, than I don't think we'll ever see this the same way.

I've worked for "public" companies where the ownership is held in similar fashion to what the Quandts have, and it's so far from the idealistic American view of a public corporation. The top three owned about 35% of the voting shares and had managed over the years to get their cronies into the board, representing another 20+% of the shares. The board never really convened, the C level execs just called the shots and the board backed them up if investors cried. It was eye opening. I'm guessing you haven't worked in a similar situation?

If Mulally could just pick up a blue phone and get 80 Ford family members to back him up and dive in, then this would be a similar situation, but the Quandts can get one or two other investors on board and ram things through. That's why they have a significantly different situation than just about any other car manufacturer.

Piech and Pischetsrieder had similar stories, but through the VW and Porsche infighting have lost their strong hold on both companies.
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      11-05-2013, 06:01 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
You're trying to argue that the Fords (or Waltons for that matter, as they're as divergent in ownership now) have a similar level of control as the Quandts. That's just not logical. If you don't see how three active family members owning a 46+% share of the stock (and we're just talking common stock, not voting shares) is different than a disparate group of 50+ people with small piece meal shares, than I don't think we'll ever see this the same way.

I've worked for "public" companies where the ownership is held in similar fashion to what the Quandts have, and it's so far from the idealistic American view of a public corporation. The top three owned about 35% of the voting shares and had managed over the years to get their cronies into the board, representing another 20+% of the shares. The board never really convened, the C level execs just called the shots and the board backed them up if investors cried. It was eye opening. I'm guessing you haven't worked in a similar situation?

If Mulally could just pick up a blue phone and get 80 Ford family members to back him up and dive in, then this would be a similar situation, but the Quandts can get one or two other investors on board and ram things through. That's why they have a significantly different situation than just about any other car manufacturer.

Piech and Pischetsrieder had similar stories, but through the VW and Porsche infighting have lost their strong hold on both companies.
I never said all 81 Ford Family members vote, you made that assumption. It is quite clear William Clay Ford II has control over the company with respect to the Ford family involvement. The point I was making is that just because three Quandts hold 40 some percent of the shares doesn't mean they make the level of decisions that keep BMW "independent", in fact since the Quandts have had that level of stock ownership for decades now, I'd put forth that they have slowly been diluting the BMW brand to the point most BMW enthusiasts (not the Roundel Hounds) are disenchanted customers.

But still ownership of the corporation and it's independence from platform dilution are two entirely different things. When BMW was truly "independent" it made 3 or sometimes 4 platforms: 3-Series, 5-Series, and the 7-Series, sometimes a 6-Series coupe, and the 8-Series Coupe both however derived from the 5 and 7 Series respectively. So not to argue the point, but with the introduction of the X-Series (based off of the car platforms) and now the 4-door grand coupes (a 4-door based off a 2-door coupe based off a 4-door sedan - LOL) and the Mini/1-Series platform and the 7-Series/Rolls platform, BMW is no more independent auto manufacturer than a company such as Toyota, or Ford.
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