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Originally Posted by Kiwi

Why should tax payers subsidise your car to make it look affordable and why should a company make money due to tax payers subsidising the cost.

Gas price is cheaper than water in America why would you even bother.

What is the true cost of charging the i3 per mile.

Don't get me wrong I planned on buying an i3 but could not make the numbers work. Their's no subsidies in New Zealand and this is the way it should be.

BMW 1 series is half the price and does 40 miles per gallon. It would take an i3 a life time to maybe get the gas saving returned but properly wouldn't as the i3 can only travel short distances before charging is required. Batteries are only warrantied for 8 years how long will these batteries last.

I'm not trying to be a troll over the i3 I'm trying to understand the car and why people purchase the i3.

All green energy for me . So true cost is only 1.80 for a full charge. Not coal. Lucky me I have the opportunity to choose where I get my energy.


Why should tax payers subsidize? Well I'm not in the government and they choose what to spend my tax dollars on .... But if the gov is offering to give me some of my money back I'll take it! They waste my money on other stupid things so whatever, that argument is stupid.


I didn't buy the i3 because of trying to find hidden savings or being green or having one vehicle magically paying me back for driving it. I bought it because it's cool and different and a different form of mobility so their you have it. Quite a simple choice for me. . Also the fact it will never rust and dissolve as I'm in the rust belt is an even better reason! Cars are a money pits, BMW's are even bigger ones. I had my 135 for a year and a half and within that time it scared me to death to have thought to own it past the warranty. This car not so much. I have yet to have an actual mechanical failure or glitch. To put it frankly this has been the most rock solid BMW I have ever owned and I've had 7 of them. Hell I've had two loaners break on me. But still love the brand and gladly come back for more

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

Why should tax payers subsidise your car to make it look affordable and why should a company make money due to tax payers subsidising the cost.

Well, because that's how the political process works in practically all countries!
Many things are subsidized beyond reason: we are stuck with inferior ethanol gas that costs more to produce than what government sells it for to the refineries. It's a total boondoggle for the corn farmers.
You can probably come up with hundreds more examples just by watching US or Kiwi news feed.

So now we have a boondoggle that benefits the EV owners, not just organized political interests.
I will take it.

Originally Posted by Kiwi

Gas price is cheaper than water in America why would you even bother.

Because cars don't drive on water?
Or beer, which BTW is also cheaper by volume than gasoline in most parts of the world. Lots of good things are cheaper by volume than gas, but I still need to drive. Electricity happens to be the cheapest energy storage medium available on the market today.

Not the cleanest (largest portion is produced from burning coal), but the cheapest nonetheless:
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3

Originally Posted by Kiwi

What is the true cost of charging the i3 per mile.

That depends on the source of electricity, the distance of the generation plant from your charger, and the transmission loss.
In reality, since all electrons are commingled in the power grid, one can pretend that you are buying (and paying premium) for green energy produced by some specific solar panel, you can only work with the averages.

Average fixed cost of electricity in my area is 8.9c / KWh. Add another ~3c / KWh for distribution charges. That's ~12c / KWh total cost.

I get 4.5 miles from one KWh of energy stored in the i3 batteries.
That is 2.67c / EV mile.

Most ICE cars get (at best) 20 miles per gallon in the city. Frequently less.
Lets go with 20 mpg. At $2.69 per gallon (premium price I paid yesterday), that's 13.45c / mile.

That is 5x cost of EV vs. ICE mile.

The above math is indirectly effected by the subsidies for electricity and gasoline exploration and refining. I accept the reality of both as externalities.

Originally Posted by Kiwi

Don't get me wrong I planned on buying an i3 but could not make the numbers work. Their's no subsidies in New Zealand and this is the way it should be.

I can guarantee you that there are numerous subsidies doled out for oil and gas exploration ventures. Probably for sheep farming and anything and everything else that interest groups can shake down from the government.

Just not for the EV owners, apparently.
Suck to be you, then.

Originally Posted by Kiwi

BMW 1 series is half the price and does 40 miles per gallon. It would take an i3 a life time to maybe get the gas saving returned but properly wouldn't as the i3 can only travel short distances before charging is required. Batteries are only warrantied for 8 years how long will these batteries last.

I'm glad you ran the #s and came up to a logical for you conclusion.
Just bear in mind that 1 series doesn't get 40 mpg in city, only (downhill) on a highway. EVs have a huge running cost advantage in cities and suburbs, but it is diminished on a highway (my i3's mileage drops to 3.8-4.0 miles / KWh on the highway).

Battery lifespan is uncertain, but I would worry less about it last 8+ years than having a newer generation battery/EV car in the market that will have 2x range and speed within those 8 years.

Then again, no ICE engine is guaranteed to last for more than 4 years / 50K miles (US warranty, lower elsewhere in the world). Ask me how I know - my i3's predecessor's, R56 MINI's engine self-destructed at 68K miles (thank you BMW/Peugeot).

Originally Posted by -c-

I didn't buy the i3 because of trying to find hidden savings or being green or having one vehicle magically paying me back for driving it. I bought it because it's cool and different and a different form of mobility so their you have it.

I leased it for all of the above reasons, including ~$200/month daily commute savings (see math above).

It doesn't pay me back fully, but does bring down the cost of the car's lease to ~$130/month. Which is a pretty low-cost and cool foray into EV world !

a

[chico2011]

I have about 13,000 on our '15 i3 Rex. The tires are at about 4/32" with even wear. However, on bad weather, they are beginning to become useless and dangerous. My wife is complaining of a lot of slip on bad weather. I do not think the tires will go much longer. In comparison to the run flats on my 535, these tires will probably last about the same, 15K or so. BMW knows about the tire wear, they just do not care. They are more concerned with performance, than consumer maintenance costs. Another example of BMW over engineering their cars without regard to downstream costs to the consumer. Wife loves the car otherwise!

[jefflieb]

I am about to return this car with 21,000 same tire as new this is some normal wear, I expect no BMW pushback at lease turn in.

[-c-]

Now at 23k miles on the sport summer 20" tires and now finally replacing them.

Will post pics of how low the tread is after 23k miles.

[reductase]

I'm at 33,000 miles on the original 19" all seasons. The rear set are way past due for replacement and very uneven wear on the edges. The front appear to be even wear and not as far worn but I'll be changing all 4 at the end of summer. I'm noticing a bit of slipping across metal plates and rail crossings but otherwise they actually feel less squirrelly than with deeper tread. I'm mostly freeway driving, but take full advantage of the acceleration at traffic lights and stops.

I'm also looking for any other options for some slightly wider wheels/tires but the few aftermarket options I've seen use the same width and need the same tire with all the same problems. Maybe even the 175 as a square setup would be an improvement albeit with some rubbing on hard turns assuming I can source the tires reasonably.