[1230vani]

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-sho...tos-and-specs/

At the front end are new headlamp graphics; the lights are believed to be upgraded to full LED items for brighter illumination at night time. Note also the repositioned foglamps lower down.

i3s:

Expect an electric motor tuned for more intense bursts of torque, faster acceleration claims and modest handling improvements thanks to wider tyres in place of the super-thin rubber fitted to regular or garden i3s.

Our sources suggest the extra grunt comes from new control electronics, rather than a more powerful battery or motor. Could this become the world's first mainstream performance electric hatch?

[bailyhill]

"Boo, Hiss"

This gives me extra incentive to keep my present REX.

Bailyhill

[TimeFor]

Bought a 2017 REx just before the 7 MSD program ended. Not regretting foregoing the i3s yet.

[bailyhill]

Anybody know when the special ordering is expected to open up? For how long can one special order a 2017 i3?

Bailyhill

[SCOTT26]

Tonight.

[cc3]

Test drove one today. Too expensive in the UK for the range available

I was hoping for better battery performance with LCI. New Mini in 2019 to get better battery technology ? Maybe worth looking at that as an option or new Leaf

[jmg]

Originally Posted by TimeFor

Bought a 2017 REx just before the 7 MSD program ended. Not regretting foregoing the i3s yet.

Do you think the MSD program will be back this time next year?

[The J-Man]

This car is no longer attractive in the US. I'm not sure why you would buy an i3 when you can get a Bolt or Model 3 with much better specs and probably cheaper.

[The J-Man]

Originally Posted by jmg

Do you think the MSD program will be back this time next year?

Highly doubtful. It might never return. A good global recession would be our best bet.

[tooshay]

The Tesla M3 is cheap with 310 miles and faster as it is 5.1 sec from 0-60. I love my i3 but it's going back after my lease is up. The M3 is on order.

[baldyloxx]

you cant just 'go get' a Model3 as easily as we make it sound.. have you seen the waiting list? and the BOLT is fugly and most likely doesn't handle like a BMW..

i3 is still in a good position in the US.

[TimeFor]

Originally Posted by The J-Man

This car is no longer attractive in the US. I'm not sure why you would buy an i3 when you can get a Bolt or Model 3 with much better specs and probably cheaper.

I wouldn't hold my breath on interior quality of the Tesla. The Model S has previously suffered from questionable quality issues from wavy stitching, to plastic cheapness, to general panel fit and finish. Its gotten much better over time but stills holds a fragrance of cheapness in a car that cost as much as a 750Li. What worries me is that Tesla didn't get it right with their flagship and now the much cheaper car may suffer too. They focus on their tech but for me that's not enough to overlook quality.

So for me, (and maybe a few others) The i3's unique materials, sustainable approach, simple utility, and fit + finish is enough.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by baldyloxx

you cant just 'go get' a Model3 as easily as we make it sound.. have you seen the waiting list? and the BOLT is fugly and most likely doesn't handle like a BMW..

i3 is still in a good position in the US.

.

[baldyloxx]

Good general comparison data and I don't disagree... But, put them on the road with 'common folks' back to back and I'm pretty sure they will gravitate to the BMW when it comes to 'Fun to Drive'.

i3 is just a better crafted machine.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by cc3

I was hoping for better battery performance with LCI. New Mini in 2019 to get better battery technology ?f

Probably.
Then a yet another battery leap in 2020.
To be followed by an improvement in 2021, with 2022 delivering something better yet.

Battery capacity and CPU clock speeds will always continue to improve. You can't wait out the progress.
Gotta take what's available now and enjoy.

Originally Posted by baldyloxx

you cant just 'go get' a Model3 as easily as we make it sound.. have you seen the waiting list?

Very true.
I got on the list the day after it was announced, and Tesla's web site tells me the earliest I could get a plain vanilla Model 3 would be in March'18. Dual motor in 3Q'18.

Originally Posted by baldyloxx

and the BOLT is fugly and most likely doesn't handle like a BMW..

i3 is still in a good position in the US.

Frankly, i3 does not handle like a BMW.
Nor accelerate like one. Nor brake like one. Nor corner like one.

Originally Posted by baldyloxx

Good general comparison data and I don't disagree... But, put them on the road with 'common folks' back to back and I'm pretty sure they will gravitate to the BMW when it comes to 'Fun to Drive'.

i3 is just a better crafted machine.

Compared to any other bimmer on offer, i3 handle like a Geo Metro.
But we all like it anyway!
At least the subsidized lease price points that BMW has been throwing at us lately

Alas, NO, I would not conclude that it is superior to Bolt in handling characteristics.
I haven't driven Bolt (sat in one, hated the driver seat, liked the overall package), but i3 is a borderline unsafe vehicle for highway driving. From massive tram-lining to high susceptibility to wind buffeting, I actively avoid taking it on the highway. Which is pretty much the opposite of 'Fun to Drive'.


a

[baldyloxx]

This is BMW's first EV.. So it handles like a BMW EV.. Which I'm sure is 'better' than all other brands' EV's..

EV's can't be compared to their COMBUSTION counterparts/predecessors because of their 'increased' weight/balance when it come to driving dynamics.. FACT.

My Volt felt like a pig in mud compared to the i3 when it comes to pure Driving Feel...

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by baldyloxx

This is BMW's first EV.. So it handles like a BMW EV.. Which I'm sure is 'better' than all other brands' EV's..

Why are you "sure"?
Have you driven a Tesla?
Either Model S or Model 3 will embarrass i3 in handling department.

On the handling scale, i3 is right next to Prius, and nowhere in near any other decent handling car. EV or not.

Originally Posted by baldyloxx

EV's can't be compared to their COMBUSTION counterparts/predecessors because of their 'increased' weight/balance when it come to driving dynamics.. FACT.

NONSENSE.

i3 weights 2,961 lbs. That's very light by modern car standards. Battery weight is low to the ground, so there are ZERO excuses not to make this car handle as well, or batter than, an M3 (3,540 lbs) or a Model 3 (‎3,837 lbs), or a Model S (4,469 lbs).

Yet, i3 continues to handle like a pregnant pig on skates.
I do hold out hope that this will be addressed with i3-S package.
For now, there is nothing "BMW" about i3 - not the handling, not the acceleration, not the styling. We've learned to accept and live with the above, but lets please not pretend that this is normal, or as expected, or "as good as it gets for an EV". Because we know that's not true.

i3 is an interesting EV experiment, for sure. And it's priced right at where the i3 leases are effectively free to own, net of gas savings. So yeah, I got one, twice, actually.

But that is not to say that I will make up excuses for i3's drive-train and handling deficiencies, or BMWs truancy in addressing them:
- anemic acceleration
- rear biased weight distribution for no good reason, even on BEV cars (worse on REX), which leads to off-throttle over-steer in slippery conditions.
- way too soft springs and roll bars that generate minivan-like body roll during turns
- under dampened springs
- comically narrow and fragile tires that tram-line like crazy, and don't last the length of a typical 24 month/20K lease period
- terrible aerodynamics that kill mileage at highway speeds, and expose car to wind buffering that requires ongoing steering corrections to stay in lane.

None of the above are present on any other BMW model, not even MINI's. Not in an i8 either, just the i3.
So BMW (duah) and BMW i-group do know how to build great handling cars, they just left i3 suspension engineering to the Lada summer intern exchange program hobos, and waited 4 years post launch to do anything about it ....


a

[-c-]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Why are you "sure"?
Have you driven a Tesla?
Either Model S or Model 3 will embarrass i3 in handling department.

On the handling scale, i3 is right next to Prius, and nowhere in near any other decent handling car. EV or not.

NONSENSE.

i3 weights 2,961 lbs. That's very light by modern car standards. Battery weight is low to the ground, so there are ZERO excuses not to make this car handle as well, or batter than, an M3 (3,540 lbs) or a Model 3 (‎3,837 lbs), or a Model S (4,469 lbs).

Yet, i3 continues to handle like a pregnant pig on skates.
I do hold out hope that this will be addressed with i3-S package.
For now, there is nothing "BMW" about i3 - not the handling, not the acceleration, not the styling. We've learned to accept and live with the above, but lets please not pretend that this is normal, or as expected, or "as good as it gets for an EV". Because we know that's not true.

i3 is an interesting EV experiment, for sure. And it's priced right at where the i3 leases are effectively free to own, net of gas savings. So yeah, I got one, twice, actually.

But that is not to say that I will make up excuses for i3's drive-train and handling deficiencies, or BMWs truancy in addressing them:
- anemic acceleration
- rear biased weight distribution for no good reason, even on BEV cars (worse on REX), which leads to off-throttle over-steer in slippery conditions.
- way too soft springs and roll bars that generate minivan-like body roll during turns
- under dampened springs
- comically narrow and fragile tires that tram-line like crazy, and don't last the length of a typical 24 month/20K lease period
- terrible aerodynamics that kill mileage at highway speeds, and expose car to wind buffering that requires ongoing steering corrections to stay in lane.

None of the above are present on any other BMW model, not even MINI's. Not in an i8 either, just the i3.
So BMW (duah) and BMW i-group do know how to build great handling cars, they just left i3 suspension engineering to the Lada summer intern exchange program hobos, and waited 4 years post launch to do anything about it ....


a

Yea I'm sure just the addition of sway bars in the "s" will have a dramatic effect on it's handling as the i3 in its current form is devoid of such a simple part, funny to even think a BMW would be devoid of such a simple part for good handling sake........ unless they always new of the "s" and kept the sway-bars off of it for a marketable advantage in the handling dept.

[baldyloxx]

There is something called Power-to-Weight.. EV will always be at a disadvantage for the simple fact of them damn batteries.. Therefore you cannot compare the two (EV/Combustion) when it comes to Driving Feel because of the amount of Suspension required just to carry the vehicle latelone 'tune' the suspension for superior handling.. When you have to shave weight on an EV somethings got to give. Even on a Tesla.

Its no coincidence that EV handle the way they do.. Not even the Tesla S handles all that well.... Especially compared to the M5, but will definitely smash it in a straight line... The only EV that performs 'well' is the Rimac, but yeah, try purchasing one of those...Reality will eventually set in..

We can argue the sidewind issue all day... Guess what, all 'Tall Compact Hatches' suffer from the same, and believe it or not its partially because of the low battery that you feel it up high so much. Hell, my volt would get pushed around and that greenhouse is tiny..

[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by -c-

Yea I'm sure just the addition of sway bars in the "s" will have a dramatic effect on it's handling as the i3 in its current form is devoid of such a simple part, funny to even think a BMW would be devoid of such a simple part for good handling sake........ unless they always new of the "s" and kept the sway-bars off of it for a marketable advantage in the handling dept.

I'm hoping the i3 sport will bring the i3 back to a drivers car as they are far from a drivers car at present and this stopped me buying an i3 18 months ago.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by baldyloxx

There is something called Power-to-Weight.. EV will always be at a disadvantage for the simple fact of them damn batteries..

And what does this have to do with i3 handling deficiencies?

Wanna know how much i3 batteries weight?
--> 230 kg.
Wanna know how much an S55 (ICE) engine, cooling, and exhaust systems weight?
--> 243 kg.

Which drive train has weight disadvantage?

Originally Posted by baldyloxx

Therefore you cannot compare the two (EV/Combustion) when it comes to Driving Feel because of the amount of Suspension required just to carry the vehicle latelone 'tune' the suspension for superior handling..

Any vehicle can have suspension engineered so that it handles well.
From 1,600 lbs Lotus Elise to 4,400 lbs M3 and Model S.

Heavier cars will always carry more momentum and be less agile, but that has NOTHING to with our i3 discussion, as i3 weights only 2,800 lbs - the lightest of all BMWs in production today.

Originally Posted by baldyloxx

When you have to shave weight on an EV somethings got to give. Even on a Tesla.

Cute theory, unfortunately, unsupported by facts.


a

[baldyloxx]

Any vehicle can be engineered to have it 'handle well'.. Which will drive up cost. Even without a 'swaybar' the i3 still is on par, if not better than others "in its class"

S55 has 370hp vs the i3 170hp. So yes, one will feel 'more fun to drive' compared to the other. (Similar weight vehicles, but the power/weight advantage goes to the S55 vehicle, which may have some mildly tuned suspension by default) Put 170hp in an M2, how fun will it be then?

The argument is why you can't compare EVs to Combustion.. Let alone trying to compare the i3 to something that's not even in the same 'class'.