04-21-2014, 05:38 PM | #45 |
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Very interesting discussion, I've enjoyed reading your opinions.
I think that BMW is clearly going with light and recycled materials for the i8, and in fact many of them might not seem as premium as in the R8 for example, probably the closest car to compare the i8 too. I believe that the i8 represents a new philosophy for the brand as a whole, it is something completely new, untested and different from anything else BMW has ever done before. While the i8 hasn't been released yet, when you all get your cars, I implore you to take your concerns up with BMW corporate, let them know what aspects of the car you like and don't. The future of "i" isn't written in stone. Now, about that M8, lets make that happen.
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04-21-2014, 06:13 PM | #46 | |||
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People really need to realize that all the i8s seen at auto shows and select dealerships thus far are almost guaranteed to be PRE-PRODUCTION CARS. These cars WILL have pieces here and there that will not be indicative of final production cars. I know this because I've seen it on a bunch of cars both at auto shows and at BMW NA. Most of the things that people are nitpicking about are the way they are because of this. I wouldn't be concerned in the slightest about most of this. It is normal for pre-production cars to use very cheap-looking and cheap-feeling plastics all over the place because it's easier, faster, and cheaper to make them. The iDrive controller won't change. As it is now, you get the same controller in a base 228i as you do in a $150k+ 760Li, so having it in your i8 shouldn't be any different. Also, as others have said, the i cars will be making use of recycled and more eco-friendly materials, so I would reserve judgement for the time when you actually sit in the car and feel it for yourself, and even when you do, keep this in mind. This isn't a hybrid-electric M6, it's a departure from what we're used to seeing from this brand (or from any brand), so we need to keep an open mind not only when looking at pictures online but also even in person. |
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04-21-2014, 08:18 PM | #47 | |
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Secondly, it doesn't matter if the car is moved from here to there, from grass to dirt, the rubber should fit. I believe that that is not dirt, look better, these are scratches, I have the same things on my Accord painted exhaust from the power wash, but that is 7 years later and still does not look like that. After one year of driving I should expect the rubber seal to look worse and fell apart on this car? Recycling materials? Shouldn't be cheaper if is recycled? And why I am geting recycled materials in my car? Ford uses in the Flex one kind of plastic made from straws but still looks better. and yes, it cost less. Also, I don't want a car made from second hand materials, for that money I want a toy that I can enjoy from every point of view, including richness of materials and awesome fit and finish with perfect fitting and no gaps. i was looking to buy a new toy that I am driving in the summer, however I am almost sure it will not be the I8. I might wait and see the new NSX. I am almost sure that will not look worse than this one.... Last edited by Teutonic; 04-21-2014 at 08:25 PM.. |
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04-22-2014, 08:48 AM | #48 | |||
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If you are so confident as to the perfection of all seals and fittings of every piece of rubber in a Jag or other cars as you stated, go ahead and post some pics of that Jaguar and make sure to include every fitting in every corner, nook, and cranny, and prove that you don't see a 3mm gap anywhere between seals. That kind of perfection is what I was referring to when I said you're nitpicking. Quote:
As to recycling materials, the idea may take some time to get used to, but given as the materials are a big part of the BMW i philosophy, I would venture to say that if you don't like the idea to the point of it being a deal breaker, you should probably look at a base Maserati GC which is in a similar price range to the i8 and will have a more plush interior with finer materials. Take a look at the interior on previous gen Corvettes - almost all plastic. Older Ferraris, same thing. Very spartan. The i8 interior materials is perhaps a future interpretation of that. Regardless of the materials, the interior is very well designed and driver-centric, which I happen to love. Quote:
We can agree to disagree on the nitpicking aspect; however surely if these are the reasons not to get an i8, you miss the point of the car entirely. I could care less. Even the cupholder isn't a deal breaker for me It would have been nice if it was nicer, but I'm not going to write off the entire car because of a few minor details. And, $135k isn't as much for a car as everyone's making it out to be. I was originally expecting this thing to come in much higher than that. A GT-R Track Pack costs nearly as much, looks like a conventional car, rattles and squeaks, and has a POS interior. But almost no car except hypercars can touch its performance. Different focus. The i8 is focused on technology, sustainability, and driving pleasure. Not luxury. |
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04-22-2014, 10:35 AM | #49 | |
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there are some pictures with my 2003 Jaguar X-Type AWD. The pictures were taken when the car was 8 years old or 150.000 km later. I don't have pictures of the rubber seals, I never thought I need that; however, you can see perfectly how the seals look like. They are ONE PIECE and they fit properly. That car was around $60.000 when I bought it new. the funny thing is, it was one of the cars that was always sitting outside at -40 C and it was my daily driver. I think it was a very good car. Also look at how the leather looks like 8 years later. keep in mind, this was a small Jaguar, not their top of the line. I have also included in here one picture with my 2006 Accord Coupe, which is house mule. Yes, they look good because, I love my cars a lot, I am a car guy. The idea is that you should look at the rubber seal. This car was $42.000 brand new. The picture is taken last year, again, 7 years later and I still own this car. So, we are talking about normal cars. |
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04-22-2014, 10:42 AM | #50 |
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Now look at Acura NSX interior. I have the feeling that you will gona bite your tongue soon. The rubber is well seen in here.
Also, keep in mind, the put a V6 in that car, and it has the same approach with two electric motors in the front. |
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04-22-2014, 10:58 AM | #51 | |
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My family in Europe owned a Maserati which was sold last year. Very unreliable car and always in shop. Plus, not my style. Ferraris's use cheap plastic. yes I agree, this is why I will never own one or any Italian car. I went almost close to one, it was a very good deal, but when I touched the material from outside and I have seen that the plastic in the back is cheaper than the one that you buy for mosquito's at Rona, I realized what cheap of a car is. It might run nice, but I can not live with that or be the fool who will pay that money for that quality. My expectations are not that high for the price. I think you and me are different, I do have some expectations when you ask a certain price. And don't pull the technology idea, you have the proof that others can build same technology car and still provide quality for the same price, if not cheaper. I am not losing the idea of the I8. While I like the car and the exterior design, I think it is poorly executed in terms of fit and finish and materials. If I want a kart for sensation, I can get an Ariel Atom and that;s it. I8 however it is not only a technological car, it is an image, a top model, a halo car. It doesn't look like one. Also, I have found on the internet different pictures with other i8's. they have the same rubber seal problems. So obviously, BMW has a template to fabricate that part, however, nobody cares how it looks. the guys at Weather tech can make nice perfect fitting mats , and they don't have BMW financial power. Pagani, was never in my list, I never liked it, so I am not interested. But Aston Martin for example, can build exquisite, beautiful machines with an enormous attention to detail. I don't know how come 4135k is not much for a car, if you compare with what you can buy I think you should be more careful with your statements. Even if I own hundreds of millions I will not pay for a car that does not deserve the money. This is why I will never own a Nissan GT-R. It is cheap and with no attention to detail. Maybe you don't work for the money but I do, and I want to see value in a car that I am buying and respect from the manufacturer. Obviously, others can focus and technology, sustainability and driving pleasure while they care about the materials and fit and finish. And, at the same price, if not cheaper. |
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04-22-2014, 11:23 AM | #52 | |
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And I guess I will be "that guy" and bring up what I'm sure more than a few on here are thinking: And forgive me if this is crass or insulting, I hate making assumptions about people on the internet based on their cars (coming from someone who parks a Fiesta ST and a AE86 GTS Corolla next to his SLS), but are you seriously considering an i8 for purchase? Do you have a deposit on one already? If you aren't, you're wasting a lot of time making annotated pictures and writing walls of text to argue something that is moot. Maybe it's because I don't get personally invested in things out of my reach, but I've never been one to post on boards for cars I'm not actively considering/have a deposit on. Again no offense, this is all just a bit weird. Last edited by Carac; 04-22-2014 at 12:23 PM.. |
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04-22-2014, 12:09 PM | #53 |
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And just to emphasize, I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from on this. Not making a judgement. Some context would help with your argument.
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04-22-2014, 12:10 PM | #54 | ||||||
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@Tracus I think you are saying that the i8, Ferraris, and Maseratis are crap and their interiors don't hold up to a Honda? That is the only reason you'll never own an Italian car? Really? Just trying to understand where you're coming from.
Regarding the pics you posted. Forgive me for not annotating them with arrows and stuff, I hope my description is adequate though. The NSX pics have the same 3mm gaps in between trim, the black door trim where it meets the red looks off, and there is a huge weird black thing on the side of the dashboard left of the steering wheel. Btw if I was in the market for an NSX, none of those things would be a big deal. Also your Honda in the last photo has a bunch of dirt by the gas pedal on the carpet The leather in your Jag pics is blown out (overexposed) so the fine detail is lost, making it impossible to tell what it really looks like, but I will take your word for it because I believe you when you say you take good care of your cars. How you take care of a car is very important to the longevity of its components. I've seen 2 year old luxury Mercedes that looked like garbage, and pristine 10 year old Benzes that were obviously better taken care of. Same quality leather, etc. But the leather isn't what's in question, right? We're talking about seals and weather stripping if I recall correctly. And some scratches or possible dirt on the undercarriage of the i8 at NYIAS. Quote:
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Seriously, I don't really agree with your statement that other manufacturers have a car with the same tech, same performance, same efficiency, plus a better interior, and same or lower MSRP than the i8. Not to mention there is no other car with even a remotely similar design to the i8. The i8 is hard to compare to other cars. What you are doing is picking 2 or 3 different cars and comparing different aspects of the resulting pseudo-car to the i8. That makes no sense. |
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04-22-2014, 12:14 PM | #55 | ||
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Last edited by ddk632; 04-22-2014 at 12:35 PM.. |
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04-22-2014, 03:24 PM | #56 |
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Carac, while I do understand (somehow) your comment, I still believe it is insulting. It does matter that I have a downpayment for an I8? I mean, I am not entitled to discuss and make remarks in regards with a vehicle because I don't have a downpayment, or even if I can not afford one? Really?
First, I don't like to talk about my financial situation, nor my cars usually, I did it however to show that there is a difference in some cars that cost a lot less and which don't even have the pretentions to be halo cars. Secondly, I might afford a Corolla today, I might afford a Bugatti tomorrow; it does not matter in a discussion. I can very well take pictures from a brand new $55000 Mercedes and post it in here to prove the point, right? Third, due to the fact that I am VERY pretentious, I will never put a deposit or buy a car before I do not see it and touch it. ddk, I am not buying Italian cars because they are nor reliable and I have my personal experience with a few, plus my family experience back home. They are well known in Europe for that fact. Also, while they do have some nice leather and suede inside, I found some outrageously materials outside on some of them, which I think is not good for such cars. But hey, that is my own opinion and I don't want to get into that argument. I think with the NSX you are kidding, look better. I am a hard-core BMW fan, however, when something needs to be said I say it. That car looks amazing. Sorry for the pictures in the Jag, I am an amateur, I don't take pictures for a photo contest, I keep them just as memoirs. I don't own the car anymore but I think it was in an amazing shape for the year, mileage, etc. It actually got sold in one hour. Yes, the plastic, or the materials play a very important role in my decision. My expectations however, are reported to the image and the price of the vehicle, so I do have some tolerance degree based on the type of the car I am buying. Again Pagani is not in my taste range. never touched one, never looked at one, there is no interest for me. Very simple. Same with Porsches; while I do understand that some likes them, I don't. That's me. I never tried to imply that 135K is a lot or is not, I just showed that another company builds a very similar vehicle with a bigger engine (V6) and with a very similar technological structure. For the same money (ore less?). And I have the feeling that it will be reliable as well. I am not saying anything about the I8, we don't have data, we know however that reliability for the Japanese is higher, right? Also, maybe the price is good, maybe not, however, since in some cheaper cars you get a stuning level of fit and finish, I find outrageous to not find a similar level in a car that costs almost triple. Again GT-R is not the car for me. I am in the luxury/sportiness balance not towards more sportiness. Don't like the design, don't like the interior, I don't want to see a kidney doctor. Drove it, test it, but not for me, that's it. I never considered anyway, I don't like the design, but it was an interesting experience. In the end, while I do understand that some cars are pre-production and I hope that they will fix some issues, I am very disappointed to see that some people just try to put you down for a discussion that in the end, it is constructive, or at least this is how I will like to see it, maybe somebody sees and acknowledge some things. Nonetheless, this is my opinion, and based on what I have seen so far, I will keep it. If the car gets better, I will not miss the opportunity to praise it if it deserves. PS My Honda does not have dirt on the carpet. Again, you have a very low sense of observation. In fact nobody ever touched the carpet. What you see, is 3M film applied over the carpet from the left where the foot rest is, until up under the center console in the right. In that way, I can wipe out any dirt or residue if that ever gets there so I don't wash the car in the interior. It is just the light reflecting, look properly everywhere. The car has rubber mats as well and I never put my shoes on the carpets. Last edited by Teutonic; 04-22-2014 at 03:37 PM.. |
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04-22-2014, 04:28 PM | #58 | |
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Here's hoping the on again, off again M1 project gets green-lit and meets your expectations. Of course, the rumors with it were that it was going to be well over $300-400k, which puts it well out of my reach. But for that much they can make a "no expense spared" halo car. I've been as nice as I can be with the tone exhibited. Last edited by Carac; 04-22-2014 at 04:37 PM.. |
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04-22-2014, 05:27 PM | #61 | |
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Actually, I find your tone condescending, with nuances of superiority, but that's ok. I have seen in here this kind of attitude, if you criticize a certain car, people are jumping to conclusions, or start questioning your comments, like you are not entitled to discuss or have an opinion. I didn't know you must have certain financial status to comment in a certain vehicle. Kudos to you that can afford one. Now excuse me, I need to put 3 l of gas in my Daewoo. |
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04-22-2014, 05:36 PM | #62 |
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Its anything but...
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The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
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04-22-2014, 06:19 PM | #63 | |
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04-22-2014, 06:24 PM | #64 |
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uuuuuuuu mysterious... mate, just admite it. ur bosses cheapped out a bit in it. aint no shame in admitting it. at least it would show u got balls not to mention integrity
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04-22-2014, 07:07 PM | #65 | |
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I still believe that this kind of comments are not proper, nor relevant and shouldn't be brought in any discussion. Anyone is entitled to an opinion and everybody should respect the other. I do agree with you: the car was not delivered and not in the hands of the owners yet. I am waiting to see it too. We will reopen the discussion then. The main reason of my comments is the fact that I truly want to see this brand paying a little bit more attention to some things. I would like to see it flourish not getting washed and diluted. I am interested in the i8, I find it intriguing and different and I like that, but I want to see a certain level of quality and a sense of pride from BMW's part. So far, while I am impressed with the exterior design, I am not impressed at all with the interior. We will see. All the best. |
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04-22-2014, 11:21 PM | #66 |
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I will be honest, I came incredibly close to posting a response to the thread that I created, i.e. I am the Original Poster of this thread (ref. someone suggesting someone else was the OP, hence there potentially being some confusion).
However, based on the last post on here, and (hopefully) the exclusion of further unhelpful, ill-thought out posts by other members, I will reserve further judgement before submitting it. Hopefully we can all start to post more constructive and sensible posts in this thread (so that is does not degrade into an emotional, useless thread that wastes the time of those that are genuinely interested in the i8). |
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