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      06-29-2013, 05:48 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The BMW i3 is perhaps the most revolutionary and important car in BMWs history as it begins a new dynamic in production , design and technology that will carry over to the next generation of BMW models.
I imagine that E30 or E21 was important car...BMW might be bankruptcy, without these models.

Edit;: E21 was very important car, launch new compact 3er klass, but BMW 700 save company to bankruptcy.

Last edited by Tåst; 06-29-2013 at 05:55 AM..
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      06-29-2013, 06:08 AM   #46
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Agree some of the comments on here are schoolboy stuff. I'm looking forward to driving something that's at the leading edge of engineering, made of carbon fibre and will cost very little to run. Won't use it as my main car but looking forward to priority free parking and no road tax. Drove the Active E which is a lot heavier and that had plenty of power. Should be interesting watching an i3 out accelerate a 3 series away from the lights!
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      06-29-2013, 06:18 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by ottoblotto View Post
Yea, screw the M1 or 507 or the 3200CS with the first ever hofmeister kink!
10 interesting facts regarding the Innovative BMWi3.
Internally it is referred to as Acorn. Once it is planted it will grow and expand.

1. The i3 is the worlds first mass produced CFRP bodied automobile.
It is also the first technology advanced BMW in this generation.
2. BMW have developed CFRP production to be cost effective for their needs at a cost which is considerably much less than its competitors.
3. The next BMW 7er will lead the first BMW to be developed with extensive CFRP.
4. The BMWi cars along with BMWs with EfficientDynamics and forthcoming FWD UKL cars mean BMW will make their EC and CAFE targets ahead of their competitors.
5. The BMWi cars will be backed fully by BMW.
6. The BMWi cars answer a new question? Can Electric mobility still have Sheer Driving Pleasure?
7. The BMW i3 and BMW i8 are not existing BMW models electrified.
8. BMWi is about changing the image of electric mobility.
9. BMWi has 600 firm orders for the i3 and over 100,000 test drives booked.
10. BMW invested a total of 1Billion euros in Project-i which covers the development of manufacturing , design and infrastructure.
Other areas of industry are queuing up to ally themselves with BMW in order to revolutionise their respective industries by purchasing CFRP from BMW. In the long term allowing BMW to recoup its initial investment.

The overall investment with projecti is crucial to BMW Groups Strategy no.1. Retaining the BMW Groups independence. It also illustrates BMWs lead in innovation over its competitors.
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      06-29-2013, 06:23 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by gaz26 View Post
Agree some of the comments on here are schoolboy stuff. I'm looking forward to driving something that's at the leading edge of engineering, made of carbon fibre and will cost very little to run. Won't use it as my main car but looking forward to priority free parking and no road tax. Drove the Active E which is a lot heavier and that had plenty of power. Should be interesting watching an i3 out accelerate a 3 series away from the lights!
--

I find you comment a bit babyish. You'll have you road tax 'caus of your government, they will never refuse to collect it, trust me. Once there will be more "eco frandly" cars on the road - they will invent another kind of tax, to keep you buisy . And seriously - would you sell your Z for this box? I mean, just look at it.
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      06-29-2013, 06:34 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
....
10. BMW invested a total of 1Billion euros in Project-i which covers the development of manufacturing , design and infrastructure.
Other areas of industry are queuing up to ally themselves with BMW in order to revolutionise their respective industries by purchasing CFRP from BMW. In the long term allowing BMW to recoup its initial investment.
....
Spent some euros desinging this gayish thing? Why would this bother us?

I wish you had your own opinion, so we would be able to discuss it. I mean some things are ok. It is clear - there should be a new direction, the world is changing and crap like that. We may not like it but we will accept it. Many of the statements from your post are valid and working, at least for me.
Thing is - there are ways to make an elegant, nice looking car, following new directions and trying to be innovative and efficient. This thing is just gay , drown by Carim btw?
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      06-29-2013, 07:16 AM   #50
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I love this got "leaked"... Test the market on how fugly this looks, we won't notice... Seriously...
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      06-29-2013, 07:17 AM   #51
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Needs a drop. Looks legit.
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      06-29-2013, 08:00 AM   #52
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I think Scott is deluding himself here, and that's easy to do when you're involved in the company that spent billions on this. Out here in the real world, I believe this thing will be perceived as just another bean-shaped green car, but with a laughable price tag. Something for the Yippies (yuppy+hippy) to drive.

I'm sure they think we're all just scared of change, luddites, etc and will eventually see the light. I say time will tell.
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      06-29-2013, 08:10 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by OverDriven View Post
I think Scott is deluding himself here, and that's easy to do when you're involved in the company that spent billions on this. Out here in the real world, I believe this thing will be perceived as just another bean-shaped green car, but with a laughable price tag. Something for the Yippies (yuppy+hippy) to drive.

I'm sure they think we're all just scared of change, luddites, etc and will eventually see the light. I say time will tell.
I am not deluding myself because if you look at Tesla as an example and especially the Model S and its decimation of the luxury market to see that customers are attracted to electric mobility if it is done differently.

The Model S is very radical from a normal car and in the US customers see this and see the instant appeal. The BMW i3 is something similar it is entirely developed from the ground up also to be entirely original.
Customers find appeal in originality and BMWi is entirely developed to be original.

The i3 is the first BMW to combine electric mobility with classic BMW dynamics and some customers will be pleased at how lightweight materials make the i3 agile and very dynamic for a BMW.

If you are still not convinced?
Then the BMW i8 Sports car will change your mind.
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      06-29-2013, 08:40 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I am not deluding myself because if you look at Tesla as an example and especially the Model S and its decimation of the luxury market to see that customers are attracted to electric mobility if it is done differently.

The Model S is very radical from a normal car and in the US customers see this and see the instant appeal. The BMW i3 is something similar it is entirely developed from the ground up also to be entirely original.
Customers find appeal in originality and BMWi is entirely developed to be original.

The i3 is the first BMW to combine electric mobility with classic BMW dynamics and some customers will be pleased at how lightweight materials make the i3 agile and very dynamic for a BMW.

If you are still not convinced?
Then the BMW i8 Sports car will change your mind.
I appreciate your reply, Scott. However, I believe people in the US look at Tesla as a serious option because of the ways that it ISN'T different. In other words, it looks like a normal, high class car and it accelerates well. The people who would drive it would not be caught dead in a little boxy green car.

That said, Tesla also has yet to show a legitimate profit. They would have been $57 million in the hole last quarter if it weren't for the $68 million they generated from the mandated California emissions credits that they sold. My point is that I don't believe the i3 had any of the features that made Teslas sell, and beyond that, Tesla is not a business anyone should try to follow.

It's also a bit scary to us BMW enthusiasts to hear statements like the i3 is the most important thing in the history of BMW. That would mark a radical departure for the company that we know and love.

Just one more thing - I WILL buy an electric from BMW when:
1. Energy storage density increases enough that I can enjoy the same power and range as a gas-powered car.
2. You create a car that doesn't look like a pod or a space ship.
3. Charging stations are a bit more common.
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      06-29-2013, 09:43 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverDriven View Post

I think Scott is deluding himself here, and that's easy to do when you're involved in the company that spent billions on this. Out here in the real world, I believe this thing will be perceived as just another bean-shaped green car, but with a laughable price tag. Something for the Yippies (yuppy+hippy) to drive.

I'm sure they think we're all just scared of change, luddites, etc and will eventually see the light. I say time will tell.
I am not deluding myself because if you look at Tesla as an example and especially the Model S and its decimation of the luxury market to see that customers are attracted to electric mobility if it is done differently.

The Model S is very radical from a normal car and in the US customers see this and see the instant appeal. The BMW i3 is something similar it is entirely developed from the ground up also to be entirely original.
Customers find appeal in originality and BMWi is entirely developed to be original.

The i3 is the first BMW to combine electric mobility with classic BMW dynamics and some customers will be pleased at how lightweight materials make the i3 agile and very dynamic for a BMW.

If you are still not convinced?
Then the BMW i8 Sports car will change your mind.


It may be more appropriate to look at the Leaf for comparison, and not the Model S.

http://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2013/0402/Nissan-Leaf-sales-soar-in-record-month-for-plug-in-cars

There is most definitely a market, and I'm sure that people will pay the premium for the i3.

But I have to agree with some comments, I don't think the design is all that great on the outside. The weird Hofmeister kink for instance.

But I am interested to see what the final product will look like.

Cheers,

CSL
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      06-29-2013, 10:51 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverDriven View Post
I appreciate your reply, Scott. However, I believe people in the US look at Tesla as a serious option because of the ways that it ISN'T different. In other words, it looks like a normal, high class car and it accelerates well. The people who would drive it would not be caught dead in a little boxy green car.

That said, Tesla also has yet to show a legitimate profit. They would have been $57 million in the hole last quarter if it weren't for the $68 million they generated from the mandated California emissions credits that they sold. My point is that I don't believe the i3 had any of the features that made Teslas sell, and beyond that, Tesla is not a business anyone should try to follow.

It's also a bit scary to us BMW enthusiasts to hear statements like the i3 is the most important thing in the history of BMW. That would mark a radical departure for the company that we know and love.

Just one more thing - I WILL buy an electric from BMW when:
1. Energy storage density increases enough that I can enjoy the same power and range as a gas-powered car.
2. You create a car that doesn't look like a pod or a space ship.
3. Charging stations are a bit more common.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL-Fanatik View Post
It may be more appropriate to look at the Leaf for comparison, and not the Model S.

http://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/E...r-plug-in-cars

There is most definitely a market, and I'm sure that people will pay the premium for the i3.

But I have to agree with some comments, I don't think the design is all that great on the outside. The weird Hofmeister kink for instance.

But I am interested to see what the final product will look like.

Cheers,

CSL
This thing is going to cost more than double of a Leaf.

Most Prius and Leaf owners are frugal. They don't care about a badge.
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      06-29-2013, 11:12 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
if you look at Tesla as an example and especially the Model S and its decimation of the luxury market to see that customers are attracted to electric mobility if it is done differently.

The Model S is very radical from a normal car and in the US customers see this and see the instant appeal. The BMW i3 is something similar it is entirely developed from the ground up also to be entirely
They both use electricity, but the similarities stop there. The model S looks like a luxury car and hauls ass, which is a far cry from this thing.
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      06-29-2013, 12:07 PM   #58
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This thing wouldn't look too bad or too far off from the concept, if they kept the bottom window lines as a smooth angular line. Instead they added this weird dip to the back window, killing the entire aesthetic of the side of the car.
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      06-29-2013, 12:09 PM   #59
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Could be wise to see the big long term picture here.

The i3 is a very important car for BMW. As it is a BMW sub brand. Not like Mini.

Yes the i3 would be more visually comparable with the Leaf than the Model S. However, I would not doubt that somewhere deep inside the FIZ or in a design studio that there is an i car that will be more comparable style wise with the Model S.

And thinking long term if BMW has invested 1B Euros there will be a long term plan to recoup that money and then make money for the future. BMW is a business and a successful independent business at that. They are not in the business of losing money.

For the enthusiasts out there (of which I am one). Don't think some much of the design of the i3 influencing future cars. My suggestion would be to think of the Carbon Fiber uses for future BMW i or BMW non i cars to reduce weight and improve performance. Not to mention how electric / hybrid cars will improve BMW's CAFE requirements which will allow us to have M2's, M3's, M5's and M6's.

Is the i3 BMW's sexiest car? No.

Is it important? Yes.

- J
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      06-29-2013, 12:13 PM   #60
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I seem to recall this forum was very critical of the design of the new 1 series when launched? Hasn't stopped BMW shifting thousands of them!! Indeed the design has grown on me.

I'm happy to wait to see what it looks like at launch.

Funny how previous comments seem to try to stereotype people who run an electric car. My neighbour runs a Leaf but he also drives a M3 and X5. I drive a 1M but will buy an i3.
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      06-29-2013, 12:56 PM   #61
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I find that its not fwd this is Rwd...Things became interesting. Car will get very low center gravity and maybe there is two independent electric-motors so there might be real diff on back axle, well it maybe have fun to drive...only exterior look like sheep or just colorless pics make that.

Will it get M-sport paket, like everyone else Bmw models?
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      06-29-2013, 02:26 PM   #62
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The 1950's called...

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      06-29-2013, 02:35 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake C View Post
Could be wise to see the big long term picture here.

Yes the i3 would be more visually comparable with the Leaf than the Model S. However, I would not doubt that somewhere deep inside the FIZ or in a design studio that there is an i car that will be more comparable style wise with the Model S.
J
Yes we are moving forward on other ideas for Concepts for the BMWi brand including a Sports Sedan which will not be an electric 5er.
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      06-29-2013, 02:49 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holander View Post
I find that its not fwd this is Rwd...Things became interesting. Car will get very low center gravity and maybe there is two independent electric-motors so there might be real diff on back axle, well it maybe have fun to drive...only exterior look like sheep or just colorless pics make that.

Will it get M-sport paket, like everyone else Bmw models?
No M-Sport will be available for the i3 but it will be offered in specific lines.
The i3 is RWD biased and indeed the car is fun to drive and what is really interesting is you can feel the agility which brings in the fun factor its not a performance car but it is a BMW. I have one just now , a more advanced final prototype but it is certainly fulfilling its expectations.

Whilst it takes its looks form the concept it has to perform in the real world , so emphasis is put on packaging and crash safety.
With the i3 many aspects of the concept are very much interpreted for production, including frameless windows , rear hinged doors and the razor thin CFRP seats. Interior options can also mimic the concepts in the same blue and white sci-fi finish.

That question people have always asked about the BMWi cars is " Can electric mobility offer Sheer Driving Pleasure? That answer is yes.

Join us for the World Premiere on July 29.
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      06-29-2013, 02:51 PM   #65
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The part (well there is many) that I do not understand from Scott is this boasting about how the i-series is "not just a regular bmw made electric" However people have been and continue to be more than happy with the "regular" bmw offerings in terms of looks, performace and ownership. The ONLY reason they are not chosen over electric offerings is people who for whatever reason want the electric car, not that they are unhappy with the regular bmw design, performance or looks.

So it makes much less sense to me to design these space-ships or other special cars rather than take the carbon technology and light-weight design into their regular cars and offer the cars in both regular engines and an electric option as the electric system gets better.

As mentioned above, the true winner in this segment is someone who can make a "regular" car in their lineup that is a hit (like any current bmw) and give it electric power that performs like gas engine but retains the looks, appearance and performance of the regular powered car.

People are not going electric for the look but for the electricity and to me it just seems like a poor direction rather than building that technology into the existing regular cars.

Who would not buy a m-sport 5 series E car made of carbon fiber, lightweight with 350hp and 350 mile range. Now there is a winner and a seller if you ask me
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      06-29-2013, 03:13 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holander View Post
I find that its not fwd this is Rwd...Things became interesting. Car will get very low center gravity and maybe there is two independent electric-motors so there might be real diff on back axle, well it maybe have fun to drive...only exterior look like sheep or just colorless pics make that.

Will it get M-sport paket, like everyone else Bmw models?
No M-Sport will be available for the i3 but it will be offered in specific lines.
The i3 is RWD biased and indeed the car is fun to drive and what is really interesting is you can feel the agility which brings in the fun factor its not a performance car but it is a BMW. I have one just now , a more advanced final prototype but it is certainly fulfilling its expectations.

Whilst it takes its looks form the concept it has to perform in the real world , so emphasis is put on packaging and crash safety.
With the i3 many aspects of the concept are very much interpreted for production, including frameless windows , rear hinged doors and the razor thin CFRP seats. Interior options can also mimic the concepts in the same blue and white sci-fi finish.

That question people have always asked about the BMWi cars is " Can electric mobility offer Sheer Driving Pleasure? That answer is yes.

Join us for the World Premiere on July 29.
looks like the design allows for large wheels 20 inch?? Rex version looks clever with 200 + mile range?? Some of the technology looks good with standard advanced nav and nice integration with iphone? seem to recall reading charging will be far faster than a Leaf for example? I drove an Active E recently and hardly needed to use the brakes as soon as you take foot off accelerator the regeneration effect for battery acts as brake. Soon got the hang of it. Low centre of gravity seemed to ensure good handling and it was quick.

Some of early motoring press reviews seem very encouraging that BMW values have been retained.
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