[rallybull]

Now that the bolt is here...
(Comparing pure electric i3, not the one with the gasoline engine)

The main arguments against the i3:
1. More expensive.
2. Half the range as the bolt.
3. Slightly slower than the bolt(?)

Arguments for the i3:
1. May actually lease cheaper than the bolt.
2. A 100 mile range is enough for your usage.
3. It is a BMW after all with better interiors.
4. Rear wheel drive( does it really matter here though?)
5. Is available "today" unlike the bolt that is barely still available.

Since the i3 in this comparison is purely electric, it qualifies for the alternate fuel vehicle number plate with unlimited carpool lane access(at least in my state and hopefully in yours too)

Am I missing any points? Thoughts?
Which one would you get if you were in the market "soon"(sorry Tesla model 3) for an electric car in this price range?

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by rallybull

Now that the bolt is here...

The "here" part is misleading, unless you live on the west coast.

GM is on the record that they are restricting production and sale of Bolts to 35K/year and only to the West coast, where they get to maximize Zero Emissions Vehicle (ZEV) credits.

GM is reported to be loosing ~$10K/per car, but is targeting to make it back in ZEV credits (gets 4 per car sold, each worth reported $4K).

It's a GM "compliance car", not a production car.


a

[Murph335]

Originally Posted by rallybull

Now that the bolt is here...
(Comparing pure electric i3, not the one with the gasoline engine)

The main arguments against the i3:
1. More expensive.
2. Half the range as the bolt.
3. Slightly slower than the bolt(?)

Arguments for the i3:
1. May actually lease cheaper than the bolt.
2. A 100 mile range is enough for your usage.
3. It is a BMW after all with better interiors.
4. Rear wheel drive( does it really matter here though?)
5. Is available "today" unlike the bolt that is barely still available.

Since the i3 in this comparison is purely electric, it qualifies for the alternate fuel vehicle number plate with unlimited carpool lane access(at least in my state and hopefully in yours too)

Am I missing any points? Thoughts?
Which one would you get if you were in the market "soon"(sorry Tesla model 3) for an electric car in this price range?

After taxes, dealer fees etc the bolt and i3 are around $40k. Factor in depreciation of a new car and it gets to be a looser.

Loose again bc both cars are ugly econoboxes with no sporty or luxury driver experience. Many incredible gas performance/luxury cars for $40k, ex e9x m3.

I3 short range makes no sense ever bc there are $8k nissan leafs on craiglist with a 100mi batt warranty. Doesnt fix ugly. But ugly at $8k is better than ugly at $40k and depreciating.

Add the gas motor to the i3 and you loose the carpool lane.


A non autopilot cpo tesla S can be had for just about $5k more. The best TCO hands down.

[JasH]

Originally Posted by rallybull

Am I missing any points? Thoughts?

i3 is amazing to drive, and far better to drive than 40% heavier the Bolt.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by afadeev

The "here" part is misleading, unless you live on the west coast.

GM is on the record that they are restricting production and sale of Bolts to 35K/year and only to the West coast, where they get to maximize Zero Emissions Vehicle (ZEV) credits.

It's a GM "compliance car", not a production car.


a

None of that is accurate. The Bolt EV is already on sale in Canada and the rollout schedule for the rest of the US was published a couple weeks ago. It'll be sold in every state by late summer. The Opel version will be in Europe by June.

http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-...eneral-motors/

---


As for production numbers...

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-evs-next-year

GM has never officially commented on planned volumes for the Chevrolet Bolt EV.

Kevin Kelly, of the company's advanced-technology communications group, has said only that Chevy was not production-constrained, and could produce as many Bolt EVs as the market proved to demand.

---


Other Bolt EV benefits the OP didn't mention: Four real doors, bigger back seat, bigger trunk, tires that last much longer and are available everywhere, better predicted residual values (https://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-re...ctric-vehicle/)

[rallybull]

Originally Posted by JasH

i3 is amazing to drive, and far better to drive than 40% heavier the Bolt.

Have you driven the bolt?

[-c-]

Uhhh well for me because I like the looks of the i3 more than the bolt (that's subjective), it won't ever rust with the carbon cell and aluminum frame (I live in the rust belt).

Classic GM interior, Cheap!

It looks smaller but that's perception.

Lastly I hate GM and won't ever buy a GM, that ones personal.

I3 has been out for a couple years now and still look more modern than the bolt.

Oh and a used i3 is cheaper than a bolt right now. Like half price !

I work 6 miles from home so mileage doesn't matter, if I need to go further I drive the x5 or get a free loaner from my dealership.

[rallybull]

For some reason, I've never thought that "owning" an electric car is a good idea- only leasing made sense. I may be wrong though.

Even if you can get a used i3 for $20000, that I think is too expensive for a vehicle whose battery is probably going to last 4 more years and that will give you about 70 miles of real world range. It is sad.

[VacMan1]

I had a fully loaded Bolt Premier on order as soon as they were released. Like a lot of people, I envisioned Tesla-like range without the price. The problem was, when I actually got to test drive one before mine was delivered I just couldn't get over how terribly cheap they are inside. I'm not a car snob...my gas powered vehicle is a '94 land cruiser...but Chevy stuck a terrific drivetrain into an interior chintzier than a Chevy Spark.

Also, the seats are a huge issue. Head over to http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/vie...5675&start=140 to see what even the early adopters are doing to try to rectify them. Having shops do custom work or suggesting buying butt pads for a $40k car. One dude even did a review of all the options:



For me, leasing the i3 rex was perfect. 120 mile electric range w/200 mile total range, 2 years of free evgo CCS access, and a much better interior. I've driven over 1k miles so far without a drop of gas or a single plugin anywhere that cost me money. My effective use price is under $300/month for a 2017 I can drive in the carpool lane. Win win.

[bailyhill]

Originally Posted by rallybull

Now that the bolt is here...
(Comparing pure electric i3, not the one with the gasoline engine)

The main arguments against the i3:
1. More expensive.
2. Half the range as the bolt.
3. Slightly slower than the bolt(?)

Arguments for the i3:
1. May actually lease cheaper than the bolt.
2. A 100 mile range is enough for your usage.
3. It is a BMW after all with better interiors.
4. Rear wheel drive( does it really matter here though?)
5. Is available "today" unlike the bolt that is barely still available.

Since the i3 in this comparison is purely electric, it qualifies for the alternate fuel vehicle number plate with unlimited carpool lane access(at least in my state and hopefully in yours too)

Am I missing any points? Thoughts?
Which one would you get if you were in the market "soon"(sorry Tesla model 3) for an electric car in this price range?

As for the arguments against:
1. More Expensive--I can afford it. I have seen GM for 50 years and I don't trust them. Diesels, EV1, etc. I have more trust in BMW. They have been good to me over the years.
2. Half the Range--already the i3 has more range than I need. My typical trip is only a couple of miles. I use it on an island, and you can only go 10 miles in any direction. So range is a non-issue. I have a smart fortwo which has even less range than the i3, and it does me just fine. I realize not everyone has their needs to be so minimal.
3. Slightly slower--well we will see. Will the bolt be faster after a couple of years of use? As I said, I don't trust GM.
4. The Bolt will be available everywhere eventually, but right now is Massachusetts, there are none to found.

Bailyhill

[JasH]

Originally Posted by rallybull

Have you driven the bolt?

No, but I know full well what 40% more weight does to a car.

[bayarea328xit]

Originally Posted by JasH

i3 is amazing to drive, and far better to drive than 40% heavier the Bolt.

40% of 3000 lbs is 1200 lbs, not 600 lbs.

i3 - 2961 lbs

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

i3 Rex - 3234 lbs

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

Bolt - 3563 lbs

http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-ele...ecs/trims.html

For comparable range, you would have to compare Bolt to i3 Rex -- only ~ 10% heavier.

I'm in the process of taking over an i3 Rex lease until December of this year. We'll figure out a longer term solution after we try out the i3 Rex for 10 months.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by rallybull

For some reason, I've never thought that "owning" an electric car is a good idea- only leasing made sense. I may be wrong though.

Even if you can get a used i3 for $20000, that I think is too expensive for a vehicle whose battery is probably going to last 4 more years and that will give you about 70 miles of real world range. It is sad.

Ok the i3 battery is from Samsung, granted it not blowing up ... (Sorry had two) it's life expectancy is 20 years and even that doesn't mean it's dead after 20 years it only holds 75% of its actual charge.

Their warrantied for 10 years and even if one does die you only have to replace that one battery not the whole pack unlike many electric cars so the real cost is much much less.

Also the i3 is upgradable as the battery tech evolves I can buy upgradable packs extending my miles to the latest. So BMW buys back the old batteries to be repurposed and the new batteries are anywhere from 5 to 8k still cheaper than buying a new car.

Why would I lease? My plan is to not have a car payment ? The fact that the car is practically free for me to drive (charge at work) cheaper to insure and register (18$) a year and no maintenance to speak of other than brake fluid and tires, I'm taking all that money and investing it.

Consider this, I bought a 55k dollar car for 10k off msrp witch brought me down to 45k then add the 7500 check from the government and the 4K I got from Chicago brought the car down again to $33,500 now with the current resale of the car and me taking a customer choice with a balloon payment at the end i give it back to the dealer (freeing myself of the balloon payment) and they certify it and sell it back to me for market value witch will save me another 10k

So in essence I really only will pay that of a Mini Cooper for this car. So yea very happy with my purchase indeed. Doesn't work for everybody but then again I don't care!

Shit the $240 a month I was spending before on gas if I threw an extra 200 in the market after 30 years at 7% growth gets to be around 250k dollars. Yea theirs risk involved with investing but better than burning it !

Hey I'm looking to retire early not none of this 65 or older stuff. Got many things to do before I kick the bucket.

Just trying to add a little perspective.

As stated by many here already, the bolt may have some better numbers on paper but driving it and experiencing it in real life will be much much different, the i3 is a pleasure to drive the bolt with its plastic noxious interior can drive off a cliff for all I care. Won't catch me within one ever!

[JasH]

Originally Posted by bayarea328xit

40% of 3000 lbs is 1200 lbs, not 600 lbs.

I was comparing to my own i3 car, which is 1,195kg. Bolt is a tub of lard by comparison

Bolt is 40% heavier than my UK spec original model i3 BEV

[bayarea328xit]

Originally Posted by JasH

I was comparing to my own i3 car, which is 1,195kg. Bolt is a tub of lard by comparison

Bolt is 40% heavier than my UK spec original model i3 BEV

Looks like you are comparing the EU/UK weight of a 60 Ah i3 (non-REX) with the US weight of the Bolt.

The US weight likely includes the weight of the driver:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=919364

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_weight

If we are throwing numbers around, it is better to make sure we are talking about following the same methodology for weight.

[JasH]

I have an i3, so I took the weight from my car's manual.

I don't have a Bolt, so I took the weight from its website info.

Pretty logical

[-c-]

Originally Posted by JasH

I have an i3, so I took the weight from my car's manual.

I don't have a Bolt, so I took the weight from its website info.

Pretty logical

Eh somebody just doesn't want to admit that the Chevy sucks! I get what you where saying.

The i3 in comparison would be heavier as well if they wanted to make it a 300 mile limit, the batteries just aren't their yet, getting close though, just wait till they can achieve 300 miles and weight half of what they do now. .

The GM is over priced for what you get miles aside. The interior and it's materials as a whole is just yesterday so for me is dead on arrival.

The model 3 is what everyone is waiting for but I don't think they will be cheap either.

In all who the hell cares what people flipping buy!!!!!! They are going to buy what they are going to buy, Ford, Chevy, BMW, Tesla it's a friggin car!!!! Go buy what makes you happy and don't give a shit what anybody else thinks .......for me buying the i3 wasn't about range or money / cost ........ It was cool and different but executed well and attention to detail was paid. The technology they learned from making carbon affordable to mass produce will only make cars better, their plant is a work of art in modern engineering. So I awarded their efforts with me purchasing their car. Whether they make money on it don't care.
The tech will be used on other BMW lineup and other manufacturers bringing affordable light weight construction to the front lines. Weight is after all the enemy in a car so let's see how the future unfolds.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

None of that is accurate.

Well, friend, you and I have very different definitions of "available".
To me, on the East coast, Bolt is exactly as available as Model 3 is.

i3 is available, so is Model S, so is eGolf, so is Leaf.
Bolt isn't.

So that's the end of that discussion.

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Other Bolt EV benefits the OP didn't mention: Four real doors, bigger back seat, bigger trunk, tires that last much longer and are available everywhere, better predicted residual values

Not sure where KBB is sourcing residual values, but they are wrong on 36 month lease from BMW for i3 (it's 58% after 3 years, not 25.3%), and Chevy hasn't released its residuals for Bolt since GM isn't supporting leases on its car at all (see pic below for bare bones Bolt build):

[afadeev]

Good story on GM's strategy behind selling Bolt at $9K loss/vehicle:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ctric-car-boom

[VacMan1]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Well, friend, you and I have very different definitions of "available".
To me, on the East coast, Bolt is exactly as available as Model 3 is.

i3 is available, so is Model S, so is eGolf, so is Leaf.
Bolt isn't.

So that's the end of that discussion.





Not sure where KBB is sourcing residual values, but they are wrong on 36 month lease from BMW for i3 (it's 58% after 3 years, not 25.3%), and Chevy hasn't released its residuals for Bolt since GM isn't supporting leases on its car at all (see pic below for bare bones Bolt build):

The bolt will be available nationwide for ordering by summer 2017. https://cleantechnica.com/2017/01/18...ies-september/



GM has Bolt lease info, including residuals, readily available online. https://leasehackr.com/blog/2016/11/...nced-309-month

Did you do any research at all before you made your claims? You can order one right now in NYC dealers.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by VacMan1

The bolt will be available nationwide for ordering by summer 2017. [...] You can order one right now in NYC dealers.

Only one of the above statements could be true.


I'm going by what GM has on it's web site, and what I heard from one Chevy dealer I called. I will take that over any and all blog posting and rumor mill references.
Note that I would never seriously consider driving a Chevy, but I remain curious about all EV options out there. The more the merrier.

As to the Chevy fans - you may be better served taking your affection for Bolt to that brand's forum.
While it's fun to chat about different EVs, it should be self evident that the folks on this forum have self-selected to be BMW-focused.

a

[Powerbeast]

Originally Posted by JasH

i3 is amazing to drive, and far better to drive than 40% heavier the Bolt.

Yessir!