Forum for the entire range of BMW electric vehicles
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW i3 Forums BMW i3 General Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-20-2014, 09:12 PM   #1
bozola
Unloved BMW Addict
bozola's Avatar
United_States
86
Rep
1,185
Posts

Drives: Z3 Coupe, 3 318Ti
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: King County WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1999 Z3 Coupe  [10.00]
1998 318Ti  [0.00]
1998 318Ti  [10.00]
2008 128i  [9.00]
i3 Success or Flop?

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
I love this car. I want this car.

I think it will be a flop, just like my 3 Tis, my Z3 coupe and my 1 series.

Thoughts?
Appreciate 0
      02-20-2014, 11:21 PM   #2
SCOTT26
Major General
SCOTT26's Avatar
5305
Rep
5,824
Posts

Drives: A big F-off German Truck.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

iTrader: (0)

Too early to gage. Car has not had 1 year on the market and not available in all markets.

Demand and the fact that in Europe it has brought first time BMW customers to the i3 and customers who would never buy an electric vehicle before the i3.

Suggest overall the first stages of market integration has been successful and i3 has achieved its initial objectives.
__________________
The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2014, 07:13 AM   #3
Chihuahua
Brigadier General
Chihuahua's Avatar
4011
Rep
3,171
Posts

Drives: E30 329iS, E65 Alpina B7
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

The 1 series was/is hardly a flop.

Time will tell with the i3. If Tesla's model E comes out at the same price point and looks better, performs better, and gets better range, then I think BMW might be in trouble with the i3.

I drove an i3, and was pleasantly surprised by how it drove. It's no 550i Sport, but it's pretty good for what it is. I still can't get over the looks of it though. It's looks like a shrinky-dink Pontiac Aztek.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2014, 09:22 AM   #4
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Funny, I'm in the same boat, had a Z3 M Coupe and a 135i, but no Ti's. I also want an i3, it's a great drive and ideal for my current needs.

Since all three of the cars you've owned were just modified versions of existing cars, their low sales volume isn't really a flop, just a consequence of there being a more practical / commonly accepted version available at the same time. The i3 being a unique chassis will need to sell in much higher volumes to be justified.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2014, 06:20 PM   #5
bozola
Unloved BMW Addict
bozola's Avatar
United_States
86
Rep
1,185
Posts

Drives: Z3 Coupe, 3 318Ti
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: King County WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1999 Z3 Coupe  [10.00]
1998 318Ti  [0.00]
1998 318Ti  [10.00]
2008 128i  [9.00]
The Ti was a US flop. But not in the rest of the world.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2014, 08:56 PM   #6
bozola
Unloved BMW Addict
bozola's Avatar
United_States
86
Rep
1,185
Posts

Drives: Z3 Coupe, 3 318Ti
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: King County WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1999 Z3 Coupe  [10.00]
1998 318Ti  [0.00]
1998 318Ti  [10.00]
2008 128i  [9.00]
The popularity of this thread is ominous IMHO.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2014, 09:20 PM   #7
jadnashuanh
Major
United_States
50
Rep
1,061
Posts

Drives: 535iGT x-drive; i3 BEV
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

How can you say whether the car is a flop when it is not even for sale in the USA yet? In Europe, they had a huge amount of orders prior to introduction just before you could expect delivery. Enough so that they are contemplating how to make more of them by expanding or building more capacity. People over there are saying after ordering, there's as much as a 6-month wait to actually get one (unless they can find one to their spec already on a lot). It certainly appears that BMW is selling all they can make, and more than they planned on selling.

The USA is only one market for a world-wide player here...things we don't seem to like or appreciate, are much more common elsewhere - an example is hatchbacks - they sell outside of the USA, not very well here.

Time will tell, but I think the lack of responses here is more relative to a premature, unfounded opinion, rather than a glaring news story. Come back the end of the year after people can actually buy the things, and a few are actually seen on the roads gathering knowledge that they exist, and then, you might have a point, but my guess is you won't.

No car is for everyone, and this one has set itself up for a particular market and appeal...if you're not in the market for that, it's sort of like buying sandals in the winter...not much call for them, and you will not be interested. But, there are people that do want them.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2014, 09:42 PM   #8
bozola
Unloved BMW Addict
bozola's Avatar
United_States
86
Rep
1,185
Posts

Drives: Z3 Coupe, 3 318Ti
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: King County WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1999 Z3 Coupe  [10.00]
1998 318Ti  [0.00]
1998 318Ti  [10.00]
2008 128i  [9.00]
I believe I said "I think it will be a flop", not "It is a flop".

To be more specific, I think it will not be a success in the US.

The point of the thread is to get opinions and people's thoughts.

Isn't that what a forum is for?
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2014, 06:26 AM   #9
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16946
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Based on the sales volumes of the other EV's on sale in the US with a range of around 100 miles, it will probably not sell very well. The BMW Roundel does help sell their other mediocre cars, so it may help here too a bit. BMW marketing hype will convince us that it's the next best thing since sliced bread and the future is EV, all while they release the next gen X6iM triple mega-turbo 4.5 L 800 HP V8.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2014, 08:07 PM   #10
tommolog
Tom Moloughney
tommolog's Avatar
United_States
44
Rep
243
Posts

Drives: 2018 i3s BEV
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Before we even attempt to discuss success and failure, we need to define what they are.

It will be impossible to determine this in 2014 because sales will be supply constrained and every i3 sent to the US will sell. We will need to wait to see the 2015 sales figures to decide whether or not it is successful. The 1 series has averaged about 8,000/year in the US for the past three years, should that be the measuring stick? Or should we look at the US sales of electric cars like the Volt, the Model S and the LEAF in their first couple years of availability as a comparison?

Personally I think if they sell over 8,000/year in the US it's definitely a success and if they manage over 12,000/year here then it will be a big success.
__________________
Tom Moloughney
My BMW i3 Blog
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2014, 06:32 AM   #11
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16946
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

It has to be measured against the Ford C-Max, Focus Electric, Leaf and, et.al. since those are the other EVs in its range class. I think the i3-Rex is comparable to the Volt. Needless to say, it will be declared a success because of the Roundel on the hood.
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2014, 11:47 AM   #12
bozola
Unloved BMW Addict
bozola's Avatar
United_States
86
Rep
1,185
Posts

Drives: Z3 Coupe, 3 318Ti
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: King County WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1999 Z3 Coupe  [10.00]
1998 318Ti  [0.00]
1998 318Ti  [10.00]
2008 128i  [9.00]
OK. So let's start a list of attributes that influence success/flop and assess each one:

I'll start

Cost Even
Looks Flop
Reliability - Unknown
Mileage: Success
Interiors: Success

Others?
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2014, 12:38 PM   #13
Touring
Major
Touring's Avatar
Norway
178
Rep
1,008
Posts

Drives: i3,E21,M2,E23, Skoda Kodiaq
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oslo, Norway

iTrader: (0)

Today i saw four other i3s. Looks like a success allready
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2014, 01:12 PM   #14
bozola
Unloved BMW Addict
bozola's Avatar
United_States
86
Rep
1,185
Posts

Drives: Z3 Coupe, 3 318Ti
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: King County WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1999 Z3 Coupe  [10.00]
1998 318Ti  [0.00]
1998 318Ti  [10.00]
2008 128i  [9.00]
That's a good point. I wonder if the US vs the world will be different. It was very true for the 318Ti. Flop in the US. Best selling 3 at the time of production.
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2014, 01:24 PM   #15
Touring
Major
Touring's Avatar
Norway
178
Rep
1,008
Posts

Drives: i3,E21,M2,E23, Skoda Kodiaq
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oslo, Norway

iTrader: (0)

Something to do with gas prices. Cost me 2 dollars to fill up the i3 with electricity if I do it at home. On the street-chargers, at mcdonalds etc, or at work its free.

One liter of gasoline cost the same here. 1/4 of a gallon!
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2014, 05:37 PM   #16
jadnashuanh
Major
United_States
50
Rep
1,061
Posts

Drives: 535iGT x-drive; i3 BEV
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

The USA is, in some ways, quite spoiled. Both our fuel and vehicle prices are much less than in many parts of the world. While the fuel actually costs close to the same everywhere, the taxes on it outside of the USA are, by our standards, quite high, as are their import and sales (VAT in most cases) taxes on the vehicles...making the cost of similar vehicles as much as a 2:1 relationship - theirs as much as twice what it costs for us. So, for example, when I picked up my car in Munich a few years ago, it cost me the equivalent of around $140US to fill the tank. Given that, it is no surprise that fuel economy is a bigger factor in choosing a particular vehicle than here. In some ways, the extra tax money on the fuel, when used appropriately, is a very good thing - they can fund and maintain their roads to a better standard than ours (Germany is a good example of this). Plus, the addition of reasonable, frequent, reliable public transport means a vehicle isn't an absolute requirement for everyone.

So, what may be a 'good' choice for us, may be totally beyond the economic horizon of others. Then, throw in our biases with brands - nearly everywhere else, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and many others are full-range vehicle suppliers. Even on the smaller vehicles we get in the USA, they tend to be a much higher trim and equipment level than those available elsewhere and we do not tend to see their basic vehicles at all - trying to maintain the 'luxury' façade they have built up over the years. People elsewhere aren't as snooty about their neighbor having a, say, 5-series with cloth interior, and few amenities that cost 1/3rd less (or more) than their loaded version, or the fact that Audis, MB, and BMW may be used by the cab company.

Success on a vehicle is making enough to cover development costs and turning a 'reasonable' profit. Depending on the vehicle involved, that may not be that many vehicles. If BMW considers the research in CFRP (as they should) a thing that will benefit their entire line of vehicles, and not just the I-series, then it can be declared a success with fewer sales.

Personally, I think that, unless some glaring fault shows up which is unlikely, the I-series will be a success.
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2014, 09:51 PM   #17
bozola
Unloved BMW Addict
bozola's Avatar
United_States
86
Rep
1,185
Posts

Drives: Z3 Coupe, 3 318Ti
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: King County WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1999 Z3 Coupe  [10.00]
1998 318Ti  [0.00]
1998 318Ti  [10.00]
2008 128i  [9.00]
Great points. The i3 doesn't seem to match the BMW US marketing strategy: Sport Touring Luxurious Ultimate Driving Machines. In fact some questioned the return of the 4 cylinder engine to the US. Time will tell.

I plan on buying an i3, unless it is a huge success and supply is tight.
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2014, 07:11 AM   #18
Matski
Captain
Matski's Avatar
England
151
Rep
842
Posts

Drives: A slow BMW
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
The USA is, in some ways, quite spoiled. Both our fuel and vehicle prices are much less than in many parts of the world. While the fuel actually costs close to the same everywhere, the taxes on it outside of the USA are, by our standards, quite high, as are their import and sales (VAT in most cases) taxes on the vehicles...making the cost of similar vehicles as much as a 2:1 relationship - theirs as much as twice what it costs for us. So, for example, when I picked up my car in Munich a few years ago, it cost me the equivalent of around $140US to fill the tank. Given that, it is no surprise that fuel economy is a bigger factor in choosing a particular vehicle than here. In some ways, the extra tax money on the fuel, when used appropriately, is a very good thing - they can fund and maintain their roads to a better standard than ours (Germany is a good example of this). Plus, the addition of reasonable, frequent, reliable public transport means a vehicle isn't an absolute requirement for everyone.

So, what may be a 'good' choice for us, may be totally beyond the economic horizon of others. Then, throw in our biases with brands - nearly everywhere else, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and many others are full-range vehicle suppliers. Even on the smaller vehicles we get in the USA, they tend to be a much higher trim and equipment level than those available elsewhere and we do not tend to see their basic vehicles at all - trying to maintain the 'luxury' façade they have built up over the years. People elsewhere aren't as snooty about their neighbor having a, say, 5-series with cloth interior, and few amenities that cost 1/3rd less (or more) than their loaded version, or the fact that Audis, MB, and BMW may be used by the cab company.

Success on a vehicle is making enough to cover development costs and turning a 'reasonable' profit. Depending on the vehicle involved, that may not be that many vehicles. If BMW considers the research in CFRP (as they should) a thing that will benefit their entire line of vehicles, and not just the I-series, then it can be declared a success with fewer sales.

Personally, I think that, unless some glaring fault shows up which is unlikely, the I-series will be a success.
This is probably one of the best posts I've ever seen on this forum.

It's refreshing to see these observations coming from the USA too... No surprise to see such a broad minded view coming from someone with a GT
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:40 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST