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      01-19-2018, 08:15 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Game View Post
Fact is the i8 really only has one thing going for it, and that's the "cool" factor. At the end of the day it's a 170k confused car that gets you 34 miles electronically and runs a 4.4 0-60. Please stop being a fanboy.
"Fact" ? "Fanboy" ? I think we are all in subjective territory here, especially evaluating such an unusual car with no real comparisons. Except of course for price and performance which are rather more of a "fact"; The i8 is about US$140k, not $170k. And 0-60 results vary -- we will have to wait a bit to get real world 0-60 data on 2019 models, but current versions are often timed at sub-4 sec, and repeatedly beat a lot of fast cars such as the M3/4. That said, BMW states its usual conservative data as 0-100km/h at 4.4 secs.

I rather like Steve Sutcliffe's [old] review:
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      01-19-2018, 09:58 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
You should do a little research on the new TESLA ROADSTER:

https://blog.caranddriver.com/new-te...20-mile-range/

You can go on and on about battery tech and this and that but it really doesn't matter. Fact is that Tesla has electric cars NOW that people actually want to buy and drive. BMW, not so much. BMW is being left in the dust in so many ways...

They absolutely do have EVs that people want to buy, no question. I just prefer something that looks good, handles, good QC and has range. There isn't a full EV that does all that.

Tesla Roadster? Pure vapour - go out and buy one...oh sorry, you can't and nobody knows when it will actually be available. I hope they do make it, make it work properly, and handle and not have QC problems (I'd buy one over a BMW no problem). But it is simply disingenuous to say BMW are being left behind by a fictitious car and battery tech that doesn't exist yet.

Apart from the styling, the Tesla Roadster is everything to everybody - on paper - but it can't be in real life because current battery tech and the laws of physics/chemistry mean that the batteries are too heavy, they suffer when charged quickly, they suffer when discharged quickly doing silly 0-60 times etc...
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      01-19-2018, 10:41 AM   #47
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Agreed. What we are really seeing here is the difference in corporate 'styles': Elon loves to spill the beans on his future visions. He has to to get venture capital. BMW, in contrast, is conservative and secretive.
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      01-19-2018, 11:11 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by NGR View Post
They absolutely do have EVs that people want to buy, no question. I just prefer something that looks good, handles, good QC and has range. There isn't a full EV that does all that.

Tesla Roadster? Pure vapour - go out and buy one...oh sorry, you can't and nobody knows when it will actually be available. I hope they do make it, make it work properly, and handle and not have QC problems (I'd buy one over a BMW no problem). But it is simply disingenuous to say BMW are being left behind by a fictitious car and battery tech that doesn't exist yet.

Apart from the styling, the Tesla Roadster is everything to everybody - on paper - but it can't be in real life because current battery tech and the laws of physics/chemistry mean that the batteries are too heavy, they suffer when charged quickly, they suffer when discharged quickly doing silly 0-60 times etc...
You can call Elon's visions pure vapor - it doesn't matter... (I bought my Model X when it was still "vapor")

You can say the batteries are much too heavy - it doesn't matter...

You can nit pick all you want - it doesn't matter...

What DOES matter is that Tesla is killing BMW EV sales in a very effective manner. Tesla is building cars that people want. BMW, by quantitative comparison, is clearly losing this battle. There is no denying the numbers. You can argue about this and that but it really doesn't matter... You can think its just not right, but it really doesn't matter...

The 2017 world sales (Jan-Nov) has Tesla selling over 40,812 Models and X/S/3's to BMW's 6,012 i3/i8's. That's called "losing" in anyone's book.

Its quite obvious the Tesla ***IS*** building more of the EV's that the world wants than BMW. The sales numbers clearly indicate this:

https://insideevs.com/november-2017-...s-report-card/

I'm happy to own both, but there is no question which one will be my daily driver and goto EV for everything but summer jaunts with the top down.
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      01-19-2018, 11:29 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion1977 View Post
0-60 times are as low as 3.6 seconds. Most tests yielded 3.8s. See: https://www.0-60specs.com/bmw-i8-0-60-times/

Plus the car handles better, looks infinitely better, weighs less, and you won’t have range anxiety. Which car is better depends on what you care about, and for me handling, range, looks outweigh being a second faster going to 60.
Here's where the comparison gets tougher. The 3.8 average 0-60 time is decent, but for 150k? For 135k you can get a P100D that'll go 0-60 in 2.5. Though, if we're ignoring price, the Tesla Roadster would be the more equal competitor...which as we know smokes the i8 in every category you've mentioned.
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      01-19-2018, 11:44 AM   #50
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I'm not sure that "we know" the Tesla Roadster will "smoke" the i8 in every category. One-off 0-60 time for sure. But handling? Weight? Range? Price? Actual performance on the road? I don't expect to see Teslas on the racing circuit anytime soon. And who knows what the i8 or its equivalent will be like in three years...

In regard to sales, apples to oranges -- the i3 and i8 are specialty cars with CFP etc., not a reasonable comparison to family sedan, SUV, ... lineup sales.

I hope I'm wrong; I have a sizable chunk of Tesla stock. It has done much better than my BMW stock over the past three years...
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      01-19-2018, 11:46 AM   #51
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It's 2018 and people are still comparing the i8 to a Model S. Y'all really just can't grasp it.
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      01-19-2018, 11:50 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
I'm not sure that "we know" the Tesla Roadster will "smoke" the i8 in every category. 0-60 for sure. But handling? Weight? Range? Price? And who knows what the i8 or its equivalent will be like in three years...

In regard to sales, apples to oranges -- the i3 and i8 are specialty cars with CFP etc., not a reasonable comparison to family sedan, SUV, ... lineup sales.
Then we both agree that Tesla is actually making cars that folks want more than BMW. ...and that BMW is clearly losing that battle.
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      01-19-2018, 11:54 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
It's 2018 and people are still comparing the i8 to a Model S. Y'all really just can't grasp it.
Not sure what your point is...

The i8 and the Model S are both current models in production. Why would you expect that consumers would NOT compare them?

More folks are clearly opting to buy the Model S than the i8 though...
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      01-19-2018, 11:58 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
...I don't expect to see Teslas on the racing circuit anytime soon...
YOU might not expect it, but YOU would be wrong. Apparently you've never heard of the "Electric GT" race class:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/ele...-racing-beast/

You BMW Fanboys really need to pull your head out and take a look around...
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      01-19-2018, 12:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
It's 2018 and people are still comparing the i8 to a Model S. Y'all really just can't grasp it.
Not sure what your point is...

The i8 and the Model S are both current models in production. Why would you expect that consumers would NOT compare them?

More folks are clearly opting to buy the Model S than the i8 though...
Because they have nothing in common? You literally compared one spec...0-60. These cars are vastly different in terms of what market they are targeting, and in the case of BMW what purpose they serve the company from an R&D perspective.

It gets very tiring that every single i8 thread that goes to the front page always results in a comparison to Tesla, whether it's the yet to be seen Roadster or the 4-door Model S sedan.
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      01-19-2018, 12:03 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
Because they have nothing in common? You literally compared one spec...0-60. These cars are vastly different in terms of what market they are targeting, and in the case of BMW what purpose they serve the company from an R&D perspective.

It gets very tiring that every single i8 thread that goes to the front page always results in a comparison to Tesla, whether it's the yet to be seen Roadster or the 4-door Model S sedan.
I don't believe I've ever mentioned the 0-60 times. Point is that the market clearly prefer's the Tesla vehicles over the BMW products. Tesla is ofeering vehicles that more people want precisely because they make better all-around cars. The market is speaking quite loudly in this respect and it likely has very little to do with 0-60 times. It also likely has little to do with handling...

If you're tired of reading about the inevitable comparisons then maybe BMW should actually make an EV which is competitive with these products. Hell, for a daily driver, even the new Chevy BOLT is easily outselling the well established i3...
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      01-19-2018, 12:05 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
Because they have nothing in common? You literally compared one spec...0-60. These cars are vastly different in terms of what market they are targeting, and in the case of BMW what purpose they serve the company from an R&D perspective.

It gets very tiring that every single i8 thread that goes to the front page always results in a comparison to Tesla, whether it's the yet to be seen Roadster or the 4-door Model S sedan.
I don't believe I've ever mentioned the 0-60 times. Point is that the market clearly prefer's the Tesla vehicles over the BMW products. Tesla is ofeering vehicles that more people want precisely because they make better all-around cars. The market is speaking quite loudly in this respect and it likely has very little to do with 0-60 times. It also likely has little to do with handling...
Wrong user, my bad...icon looked similar. I thought the other guy replied.
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      01-19-2018, 12:11 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
Wrong user, my bad...icon looked similar. I thought the other guy replied.
10-4! NP...

I'm a car lover. I don't care who makes em! I own both Tesla and BMW vehicles. I have a model X and I've got an i8 Roadster on paid reservation. But they are both very different cars. I'm lucky enough to be able to have both of them. But if I could only have one, there is absolutely no hesitation to say it would be the ModelX...

I really wish BMW would make a more useful EV. I would buy it in a heartbeat. But right now they are falling way behind competitively in this market...
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      01-19-2018, 12:25 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
Because they have nothing in common? You literally compared one spec...0-60. These cars are vastly different in terms of what market they are targeting, and in the case of BMW what purpose they serve the company from an R&D perspective.

It gets very tiring that every single i8 thread that goes to the front page always results in a comparison to Tesla, whether it's the yet to be seen Roadster or the 4-door Model S sedan.
I don't believe I've ever mentioned the 0-60 times. Point is that the market clearly prefer's the Tesla vehicles over the BMW products. Tesla is ofeering vehicles that more people want precisely because they make better all-around cars. The market is speaking quite loudly in this respect and it likely has very little to do with 0-60 times. It also likely has little to do with handling...

If you're tired of reading about the inevitable comparisons then maybe BMW should actually make an EV which is competitive with these products. Hell, for a daily driver, even the new Chevy BOLT is easily outselling the well established i3...
I don't know why u keep comparing BMW to Tesla based on EV's. BMWs line up consists mostly of Vehicles with an ICE with some hybrid tech. They make vastly more cars than Tesla and make money doing it. Tesla is singularly dimensional in a multi-dimensional world. Some people like EV only but most don't. When and if people's tastes change BMW and Porsche and Merc etc will be there and will continue to grow. Tesla is losing a lot of money because they are selling their cars for a lot less than it costs to make. Investors will only subsidize for so long. Don't get me wrong I like all cars and having more choices but Tesla sales are a rounding error to the large luxury auto makers. Tesla isn't beating anyone at anyone except in generating massive financial losses.
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      01-19-2018, 12:35 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
I don't know why u keep comparing BMW to Tesla based on EV's. BMWs line up consists mostly of Vehicles with an ICE with some hybrid tech...
Um, this is the i8 forum, right?
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      01-19-2018, 12:37 PM   #61
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Quote:
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I don't know why u keep comparing BMW to Tesla based on EV's. BMWs line up consists mostly of Vehicles with an ICE with some hybrid tech...
Um, this is the i8 forum, right?
...and the i8 uses a battery to propel the front wheels and a mid-mount ICE to propel the rear wheels. It has more in common with a Porsche 918 than any Tesla.
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      01-19-2018, 03:50 PM   #62
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Aston Martin sells cars that do zero to 60 in the mid and/or upper four seconds. Yet no one complains about Aston like they do the i8. Yet the I8 is cheaper, more efficient, quicker, more stylistic than most Aston Martins.

The I8 is a great combination of style, performance, efficiency, handling. Comparing it to a more expensive nonexistent Tesla roadster is off. And I still think the ‘14 i8 looks better than the ‘20 Tesla Roadster.
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      01-19-2018, 04:17 PM   #63
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And I still think the ‘14 i8 looks better than the ‘20 Tesla Roadster.
I don't think anyone would sensibly disagree with the opinion that the styling of all models of Teslas to date has been pretty bland and uninspiring.

Even with the proposed roadster, I personally wasn't drawn to the design (although the hypothetical stats do look good on paper).
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      01-19-2018, 05:11 PM   #64
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Tesla has been existing for 5 minutes and BMW for 80 years or so? Let's just give this comparison the benefit of time. I sincerly hoep that the former is still around in 2022.
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      01-20-2018, 03:38 AM   #65
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Back on track...

It looks like the new i8 has a smoother front hood with raised shutters for the air flow up through the electric motor, as opposed to the existing design, which had that hole in the black part of the hood.

I think the new black shutters, from what I can make out, look much better and I wonder if we'll be able to upgrade to them?!

Anyone seen them or any thoughts?
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      01-20-2018, 08:40 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
YOU might not expect it, but YOU would be wrong. Apparently you've never heard of the "Electric GT" race class:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/ele...-racing-beast/

You BMW Fanboys really need to pull your head out and take a look around...
Please. I have heard of the Electric GT playground, and formula E -- I have even watched some E karts race. Neither qualifies as serious racing in my book, although Formula E is getting close. Electric GT has been beset, so far, with the same old Tesla issues:

https://electrek.co/2017/11/28/tesla...-crash-delays/

It will be interesting to see how the E cars eventually catch up to petrol and hybrid cars on circuits like the 'ring. My money is on BMW to have a quicker E car than Tesla.
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