07-01-2013, 10:30 PM | #89 |
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the scion XB looks better than i3, that RX-8 mini door thing is hideous(it looked good on the RX-8)
looking forward to a normal car from the i division, something in terms of 3/4 series form, performance and price but with pure electric drive. |
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07-01-2013, 11:06 PM | #90 |
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I think most of you are just missing the point...
This is designed as a city car to get people around congested areas, carry them in reasonable comfort and safety. High speed is irrelevant, but good torque to get started and zip here and there and get the groceries or other purchases home is required. Good space utilization is more important for this than swoopy looks which generally compromise one or the other of what I think are the prime goals. With the available range, it meets the needs of the majority of commuters. If it doesn't meet your needs, nobody's going to break your arm to buy it, nor make it the only choice. I think it is all about choice...there ARE people out there where this is a good choice. It may not be your choice, just like going to the store to buy some clothes...there are some things you just wouldn't ever consider wearing, but they appeal to others. Who are you to tell them they can't or shouldn't? How about a mature attitude where you choose to not like something, but not be a juvenile about it and classify it as terrible like trying to get a 5-year old to eat his broccoli. Tastes and expectations are different, and a little restraint and acceptance of differences is the higher road. Why not take it? |
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07-01-2013, 11:15 PM | #91 | |
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If you are a so-called environmentalist, things are a bit different. If you think God created you just to make world a better place for baby penguins and your life-time goal is hugging as many trees as you can my first recommendation to you is walking. That's the least polluting way of transportation. Then there is the Blue Motion VW's. Polo Blue Motion helps environment more than EV's (coal still is the biggest source of electricity). You can even get a sub 100 gr/km CO2 Golf diesel and while you are helping muses, you will help yourself by driving a very decent car that will do anything that i3 does plus more. And when you run out of fuel, you can simply refuel in a station in just few seconds something that an EV simply can't. Hope this i project fails. At that point BMW have to get back to something they did best and that's making real cars. |
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07-02-2013, 12:51 AM | #92 | ||
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07-02-2013, 01:52 AM | #93 | |
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Just watch CNN one day, you see the effect of the climate change everyday, so I will do my little share. I will use it as my daily driver. The Porsche 928, BMW E30 and E21 I will use for fun, the F11 for out of town travel. And electric cars have a future. Here in Oslo, Nissan Leaf is the second best selling car in June, second only to VW Golf. BMW i : its electric! |
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07-02-2013, 01:59 AM | #94 |
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07-02-2013, 10:45 AM | #97 |
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Like the idea that you can hand back the i3 for say the weekend and pick up say a 5/6 series from the dealer all within the terms of leasing contract. Great idea for holidays.
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07-02-2013, 02:12 PM | #99 | |
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ReX is a range extended i3 with additional two cylinder BMW engine from the BMW Motorrad division. If you hope that BMWs project I fails then you want the whole of BMW to fail. This 1 billion investment just does not cover cars , but an entire new engineering approach at BMW which has left our more resourceful competitors way behind in developing new methods of material construction and production. The i3 introduces the world to the first volume production car made from CFRP which is possible because BMW have perfected its CFRP use over the years allowing to be cost effective for use within the M6 , M3 and forthcoming M4 that our competitors cannot match. Audi might have been pioneering aluminium space frame technology but where is their modern equivalent? Everybody has caught up even BMW used aluminium tech in models like the Z8 and Rolls-Royce Phantom and in the front structure of the E60 5er. The next generation 7er begins the transition to a production BMW within the core series, promising lightweight and the most technically advanced 7er and if not BMW ever with an entry 7er weighing the same as a 520d. Project-I is not just about BMWi . It will cover BMW , BMWM , MINI and Rolls-Royce, the investment was to develop the technology , production , infrastructure to support the entire BMW Group. In order to meet strict legislation being forced onto auto manufacturers the initiative will allow BMW to further its ambitions to meet these targets ahead of their competitors.
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07-02-2013, 05:22 PM | #100 |
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Well said Scott. I totally agree. Those loyal to the brand will support the approach need to move with the times. I have paid my deposit and am quite excited about owning an I3. New technology interests me.
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07-02-2013, 10:41 PM | #101 | |
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These electronics have to be lightened too. It doesn't matter if BMW lightens the chassis by 500lbs if they then add in 455lbs of electronic bs that no one ever uses. |
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07-03-2013, 04:49 AM | #102 | |
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I think you need to give them more credit. |
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07-03-2013, 06:37 AM | #103 | |
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Do you honestly think this car maker has anything in common with the company that people like Paul Rosche worked for in the past? I don't think so. BMW has lost it's principle. Badly. If this i project helped BMW from financial stand point to keep building REAL BMW cars, i would support it. But i know it's not gonna happen. So yes i hope it fails. CFRP is cool. I like to have CF parts in my car. But let's not forget the only reason that current BMW's need CF to lower their weight is because the same people who invest in CFRP project made cars fat. You mentioned 7-Series in your post. Cool that the next one will be lighter. But look how much it's fatter than saying the E38? My Jaguar XJ weighs 1870kg. That's almost 150kg LESS than the 740i. It's funny. It's a Jag for gods sake. And it's a better driver car than the 7-Series. It's almost comical. When was the last time you saw a 5-Series having more weight more than E-Class? Let me tell you, it always was lighter than it's rival from Mercedes. Now which is heavier? The 5. Why is that? Because BMW went cheap and based the chassis on the 7-series' chassis. Why should i support BMW anymore? You tell me. Don't get me wrong Mr. I don't have anything against you (how many people post under Scott26 username BTW?). You obviously are doing your job. But honestly i don't like it. It's cool to see BMW recognizes forums and put some people in charge for marketing. However i don't want someone from BMW ask me to change my mind because BMW wants to make more money. I'm not a share holder, and i also am not a badge whore so there is no reason for me to care about the future of BMW. The only reasons i had BMW cars in the past was because they suited me the best, but now that they don't i look for something else. I just wish that you would report back to your supervisor and tell them about feedback you get from forums. Members here are not all the people who buy BMW's, but we sure do represent a small group of buyers, don't we? |
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07-03-2013, 09:32 AM | #104 | |
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07-03-2013, 01:22 PM | #105 | |
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I think I might have got the wrong weight for the 5-er earlier, but I did't think the Jags were that light.. so I decided to do the numbers: From BMW.com (EU weight inc all fluids and 75kg driver and cargo): base 5-er (520d as SCOTT mention) = 1695kg therefore base G11 7-er (730i) = 1695kg base F01 (730i) = 1840kg therefore a weight saving of 145kg If we apply that to the F01 750i (2015kg) as well, that would give a G11 750i weight 1870kg From Jaguar.com (Kerb weights excl. 75kg driver and cargo) XJ 3l petrol s/c = 1755kg XJ 5l pertol s/c (510PS) = 1870kg If we add in the 75kg Jaguar don't seem to include for driver and cargo in their figures (I can't find anywhere on Jags website what they include or don't include so I've taken the definition of kerb weight form Wiki) XJ 3l petrol s/c = 1830kg XJ 5l pertol s/c (510PS) = 1945kg So, The 730i would be 1695kg vs. 1830kg for the Jag 3.0L (BMW is 135kg lighter) The 750i would be 1870kg vs. 1945kg for the Jag 5.0L (BMW is 75kg lighter) I've not bother with LWB versions or 4 wheel drive to keep it simple. Please feel free to point out any errors if I've made them, but I've just gone from what SCOTT said about base 7-er equalling 520d, the manufacturers websites, and the wiki definition of kerb weight. If I am correct, then I would say again, it's quite impressive for a car that will be bigger and have more gizmos. And, at the end of the day, these cars are heavy for a reason, they're big and they're packed full of luxury, probably not bought for driving dynamics, so I'm more interested to know what the G? generation 3 er might weigh! edit: Yes, thinking about it.. BMW are bound to introduce something like a 728i woth the 4 pot Turbo in it. Since the most similar cars I can think of that have engines of the same type are the 530d and 730d... to work back to a 728i I did this: The F10 528i is 85kg lighter than the F10 530d.. so if a theoretical F01 728i was also 85kg lighter than the F01 730d (1915kg), it's base weight would be 1830kg.. only 10kg lighter than the F01 730i is already... so even IF the entry level 7-er SCOTT was talking about was actually a 4 pot 728i, the weight saving from the engine alone would only be 10kg... meaning that the vast majority of weight loss still came from the chassis, not just downsizing the engine form 6 to 4... ... again I could be wrong! Last edited by Matski; 07-03-2013 at 02:01 PM.. |
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07-03-2013, 02:36 PM | #106 | |
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07-03-2013, 02:45 PM | #107 | |
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Okay, so for clarification, the weights listed on BMW.com include a 75kg driver? If so its not as bad as I thought, although I still would have liked more. As I said earlier, it doesn't matter if you reduce the chassis weight by hundreds of kilograms if you then turn around and put in hundreds of kilograms of electronics. As for the listed weights, I just went off of bmwusa.com, bmw.com, jaguar.com, audiusa.com |
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07-03-2013, 03:09 PM | #108 | |
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You are right about the electonics thing, and BMW showed with the M3 CRT, that they'd happily negate the weight savings by adding luxuries... which was stupid... however, especially at the 7 series end of the market... it's the market that dictates the need for gadgets, toys, luxuries etc... so the engineers hard work will always be countered by this. I wonder... if BMW offered a 5 series that had no Air-con, no nav, no power windows, no electric seats, no iDrive, 4 speaker stereos, no air-bags, worse crash protection, and less space, and featured an engine only 14hp more powerful than the i3.... how many they'd sell? Because the best 5 series I've ever driven featured all of those things... it was an E28! BUT the market changes... BMW could never sell a 5 series that was all of those things because everyone would buy heavier Audi's, Merc's, Jag's, Lexus's etc... because they like their comforts and their toys.... I mean, really have you seen how much people on this forum piss and moan about headlamp bulbs? Imagine the epic complaining if they lost Nav!!!! Last edited by Matski; 07-03-2013 at 03:26 PM.. |
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07-03-2013, 04:47 PM | #109 | ||
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07-03-2013, 05:54 PM | #110 |
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Look at the average derriere of an 'ugly american'...it gets wider every generation (and parts of Europe are doing this as well). We also tend to grow taller from better nutrition and who knows what. So, to me at least, it makes a lot of sense that the vehicles tend to be getting larger. Now, if you were driving say a 5-series, maybe a switch to the 3-series would be called for since it may now be as big as a (much) older 5 was...you can have your cake and eat it too.
Personally, I'm in the upper 90's-percentile of height (but not weight, thank god), so bigger gives me more choices. Now, I'm not sure why anyone would want to live in someplace like say Phoenix, AZ, but try to tell them they can't buy a car with a/c! I can see where that might be viable in rainy England, but not in most places around the civilized world (and a lot that aren't!). It's easier to design one duct system and slap that in along with an a/c system than design two different ones. Certainly, it can affect weight, but it may not affect cost as much as you think. Plus, it also would affect weight distribution, dash panel design, and moving other things around to keep the balance would be quite costly, too. There are ramifications for almost any change, some of them small, some much bigger, and then there's the cost involved. Unless you're into a market like say a Bently where you can customize many things, you have to consider what's economically possible on the semi-mass-produced assembly line. |
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