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      04-19-2017, 07:33 AM   #23
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A 218d has longer range, more space and cost less than an M6 Gran Coupe. How about that?

My i3 have more range than I need, more space than I need and it costs very little for me to have thanks to our tax laws.

Bolt? It's not even for sale here but as I never considered an Opel before, why should I now? I use my EV to get to work. I don't need more range and cheaper materials.

ps. The i3 IS fun to drive. In the city. That's where it belongs.
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      04-19-2017, 08:35 AM   #24
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Don't care ! As I said don't care if you designed rockets you weren't on the project of either GM, Tesla or BMW, so you know nothing of why they made the decisions they made, just stating simple facts. But GM still sucks (My opinion) and the bolt looks stupid (My Opinion)....

More of a mopar fan anyway....
This is getting fun!

So the topic of this thread is the i3 wins the inaugural 2017 World Urban Car award. From the WCA website: "The World Car Awards (WCA) is a program initiated by, organized by, and conducted by automotive journalists from all over the world. From the outset in 2004, those of us involved in making it a reality have done so in the context of one over-riding priority. We are dedicated to ensuring that it is carried out with the utmost objectivity, credibility, and integrity.

The WCA are administered by a not-for-profit association, under the guidance of a Steering Committee of distinguished automotive journalists from Asia, Europe, and North America. In that way, it draws on the experience and expertise already developed by various other award programs throughout the world.

It is intended to complement, not compete with existing national and regional COTY awards, which are inherently different in scope. By its nature, WCOTY includes some vehicles that may be unavailable in individual regions, and excludes others whose availability may be limited to those regions.

So the award is handed out by automotive journalists, whose job it is to critique automobiles, not design and build them. I'd bet I know more about car design and manufacturing then most of the automotive journalists on that stupid WCA voting board. All of them "weren't on the project of either GM, Tesla or BMW" so they "know nothing of why they (GM, Tesla, BMW) made the decisions they made". So it took the i3 three model years to finally win an award.

But just to be fair, the Bolt, it's first time out, won the prestigious Motor Trend "Car of the Year Award" for 2017. The past winners of MT's Car of the Year? Chevrolet Volt (2011), Passat (2012), Tesla S (2013), Cadillac CTS (2014), VW Golf (2015), and Chevrolet Camaro (2016). The i3 came out as a MY 2014 vehicle and wasn't even a contender in 2014 (even though the Tesla and Chinese CODA EVs were included the year before). It was in the 2015 MT COTY Award group of cars where it didn't even compete as a contender (i.e. didn't even make the cut - LOL), let alone a finalist. MT says of the i3 "In a 2014 First Drive, we said that the i3 doesn’t have the same fun-to-drive DNA as other vehicles produced by BMW. The car’s handling was sloppy and the front tires didn’t have much grip especially when accelerating. Where the i3 really shines is in its interior. Breaking away from the usual dark and austere interiors of most BMWs, the i3 features a curvy dashboard design, unique eco-friendly seat materials, a free standing display, and a two-spoke steering wheel. MT says of the Bolt, "Perhaps the most impressive thing about the Bolt EV is there are no caveats, no “for an electric car” qualifiers needed in any discussion. It is, simply, a world-class small car, and that’s before you factor in the benefits inherent in the smoothness, silence, and instant-on torque provided by the electric motor. The ride is firm and sporty, but transmitted road noise is very well damped. The steering has slightly artificial weighting, but brake feel is natural, and once you learn to use the higher regenerative braking modes, you can pretty much drive all the time without touching the friction brakes at all.

But we can magazine bench race all day if you want. However, Motor Trend has come to the same conclusion I have, that the Bolt is the better car between the i3 and the Bolt because its larger inside and offers twice the range as the i3.

Data my friend... data.
Lol "Motor trend" bought and payed for my GM lol...(my opinion)

As I said before those differ from my own wants and doesn't make the car better in any way it's their opinion of why it's better and since that opinion aligns with yours you take it as fact . I'll take a small better crafted interior over A bigger shit interior and that's a fact, so if I design a turd and give it 3 times the milage it's better? Don't think so I'll take a car with half the milage if I think it's designed better and fits what I want because at the end of the day I buy what I want not what a magazine said is better. Also GM can't make a quality interior to save their lives.... every GM interior I've been in I can't wait to get out of it! I feel like I'm getting cancer from the fumes!

I buy cars off an emotional response not data so throwing someone's "data" at me isn't going to amount to anything.

. I can go all day so you can spout all the info and data you can throw at me and it won't budge my opinion that the bolt sucks and can just suck it.

Don't get me started on the looks of the bolt.
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      04-19-2017, 12:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by -c- View Post
Lol "Motor trend" bought and payed for my GM lol...(my opinion)

As I said before those differ from my own wants and doesn't make the car better in any way it's their opinion of why it's better and since that opinion aligns with yours you take it as fact . I'll take a small better crafted interior over A bigger shit interior and that's a fact, so if I design a turd and give it 3 times the milage it's better? Don't think so I'll take a car with half the milage if I think it's designed better and fits what I want because at the end of the day I buy what I want not what a magazine said is better. Also GM can't make a quality interior to save their lives.... every GM interior I've been in I can't wait to get out of it! I feel like I'm getting cancer from the fumes!

I buy cars off an emotional response not data so throwing someone's "data" at me isn't going to amount to anything.

. I can go all day so you can spout all the info and data you can throw at me and it won't budge my opinion that the bolt sucks and can just suck it.

Don't get me started on the looks of the bolt.
And there it is! BMW gets beat by an American brand car and ... "But the interior sucks" auto response comes out. LOL, love it. Christ, you guys crack me up.

So by your thought process, every car sucks unless someone likes it and meets their requirements. Ah huh, okay, good logic there. So in racing, if the BMW M4 wins the manufacturer's championship, it really didn't win if it's not important to you that winning the most races counts as winning. The effects of participation trophies are better understood as you kids grow up and become pajama boys.
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      04-19-2017, 12:48 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by -c- View Post
Lol "Motor trend" bought and payed for my GM lol...(my opinion)

As I said before those differ from my own wants and doesn't make the car better in any way it's their opinion of why it's better and since that opinion aligns with yours you take it as fact . I'll take a small better crafted interior over A bigger shit interior and that's a fact, so if I design a turd and give it 3 times the milage it's better? Don't think so I'll take a car with half the milage if I think it's designed better and fits what I want because at the end of the day I buy what I want not what a magazine said is better. Also GM can't make a quality interior to save their lives.... every GM interior I've been in I can't wait to get out of it! I feel like I'm getting cancer from the fumes!

I buy cars off an emotional response not data so throwing someone's "data" at me isn't going to amount to anything.

. I can go all day so you can spout all the info and data you can throw at me and it won't budge my opinion that the bolt sucks and can just suck it.

Don't get me started on the looks of the bolt.
And there it is! BMW gets beat by an American brand car and ... "But the interior sucks" auto response comes out. LOL, love it. Christ, you guys crack me up.

So by your thought process, every car sucks unless someone likes it and meets their requirements. Ah huh, okay, good logic there. So in racing, if the BMW M4 wins the manufacturer's championship, it really didn't win if it's not important to you that winning the most races counts as winning. The effects of participation trophies are better understood as you kids grow up and become pajama boys.
No bmw makes plenty of sucky and your generalizing my statement GM can make a fantastic car but what you seem to not be getting is I hate the brand so therefore all their cars suck by association same as Hyundai, Kia and any Toyota . And also not fair to throw the others here Into the same argument as me as my opinions are my own and that's it.
GM makes cheap interiors, overall cheap cars even Cadillacs.

They used to be a mark but have fallen to the masses and shareholders and now make junk.

That's my opinion and sticking to it! Take your GM love elsewhere you won't find any from me! I have my reasons. Your the silly one being on a BMW I3 forum spouting how great the bolt is and expect everyone to just agree with you because it's better because of range and bigger interior data data blah blah !!!!

Well not everyone agrees and everyone has a different like and dislike and level of what's important that's why people all drive different cars.

I will never buy a bolt and have never even looked at it's data sheet, i just won't ever buy one. Same reason why I won't buy IKEA or Chinese fake furniture it's crap.

Your welcome to love it, by all means but I don't have to and never will.

Go ahead and make all the generalizations you want that's your right and rate the populous off the few posts that where made and have fun it's the Internet and a forum and you would not know if all this was just me playing with you or not.

Silly silly silly.......

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      04-20-2017, 05:13 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by -c- View Post
No bmw makes plenty of sucky and your generalizing my statement GM can make a fantastic car but what you seem to not be getting is I hate the brand so therefore all their cars suck by association same as Hyundai, Kia and any Toyota . And also not fair to throw the others here Into the same argument as me as my opinions are my own and that's it.
GM makes cheap interiors, overall cheap cars even Cadillacs.

They used to be a mark but have fallen to the masses and shareholders and now make junk.

That's my opinion and sticking to it! Take your GM love elsewhere you won't find any from me! I have my reasons. Your the silly one being on a BMW I3 forum spouting how great the bolt is and expect everyone to just agree with you because it's better because of range and bigger interior data data blah blah !!!!

Well not everyone agrees and everyone has a different like and dislike and level of what's important that's why people all drive different cars.

I will never buy a bolt and have never even looked at it's data sheet, i just won't ever buy one. Same reason why I won't buy IKEA or Chinese fake furniture it's crap.

Your welcome to love it, by all means but I don't have to and never will.

Go ahead and make all the generalizations you want that's your right and rate the populous off the few posts that where made and have fun it's the Internet and a forum and you would not know if all this was just me playing with you or not.

Silly silly silly.......

It's disappointing that people can't have rational discussions on internet forums. The position of "well I hate the brand therefore I'll never consider anything" is just plain myopic and leads to a dis-advancement of society.

I'm not sure how you thought I was trying to convince you to buy a Bolt. You turned it into a personal issue; I was merely presenting technical information to counter BMW's claim that its i3 is the ultimate EV machine. You took it personal, which is unfortunate.
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      04-20-2017, 09:24 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
No bmw makes plenty of sucky and your generalizing my statement GM can make a fantastic car but what you seem to not be getting is I hate the brand so therefore all their cars suck by association same as Hyundai, Kia and any Toyota . And also not fair to throw the others here Into the same argument as me as my opinions are my own and that's it.
GM makes cheap interiors, overall cheap cars even Cadillacs.

They used to be a mark but have fallen to the masses and shareholders and now make junk.

That's my opinion and sticking to it! Take your GM love elsewhere you won't find any from me! I have my reasons. Your the silly one being on a BMW I3 forum spouting how great the bolt is and expect everyone to just agree with you because it's better because of range and bigger interior data data blah blah !!!!

Well not everyone agrees and everyone has a different like and dislike and level of what's important that's why people all drive different cars.

I will never buy a bolt and have never even looked at it's data sheet, i just won't ever buy one. Same reason why I won't buy IKEA or Chinese fake furniture it's crap.

Your welcome to love it, by all means but I don't have to and never will.

Go ahead and make all the generalizations you want that's your right and rate the populous off the few posts that where made and have fun it's the Internet and a forum and you would not know if all this was just me playing with you or not.

Silly silly silly.......

It's disappointing that people can't have rational discussions on internet forums. The position of "well I hate the brand therefore I'll never consider anything" is just plain myopic and leads to a dis-advancement of society.

I'm not sure how you thought I was trying to convince you to buy a Bolt. You turned it into a personal issue; I was merely presenting technical information to counter BMW's claim that its i3 is the ultimate EV machine. You took it personal, which is unfortunate.
That's just BMW marketing and its their job to try and sell you something.... most marketing is BS anyway.

And I'm ok with that don't need someone to tell me why I should like something.

I also played way to harsh myself, normally I'm open to things but lately theirs been so much being beaten over my head I snapped !



Hugs..

Theirs nothing wrong with not liking something though.

I hate sushi, never tried it just know I won't like it because I can't get past eating raw uncooked meat even if it's totally safe.

But that's my life and am totally fine with missing out.
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      04-21-2017, 05:16 AM   #29
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"Launched in 2014, the born electric BMW i3 represents a new era of electro mobility offering a visionary design, a ground-breaking vehicle architecture, dynamic performance and innovative connectivity. No other car represents such a holistic approach to sustainability throughout the value chain."

Nothing in this statement is true.
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      04-21-2017, 11:24 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
"Launched in 2014, the born electric BMW i3 represents a new era of electro mobility offering a visionary design, a ground-breaking vehicle architecture, dynamic performance and innovative connectivity. No other car represents such a holistic approach to sustainability throughout the value chain."

Nothing in this statement is true.
Why are you still posting?
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      04-21-2017, 11:51 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by remlemasi View Post
Why are you still posting?
You're right, two things are true in that statement:

(1) The i3 was released in 2014
(2) The i3 was born an electric vehicle

The rest of the statement is untrue hype.
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      04-21-2017, 08:52 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by remlemasi View Post
Why are you still posting?
You're right, two things are true in that statement:

(1) The i3 was released in 2014
(2) The i3 was born an electric vehicle

The rest of the statement is untrue hype.
See what you have to remember is people on this forum have spent lots of money or are heavily invested in this car. So they like it. And basically what your doing is pissing all over it, so like anti bodies in our immune system see you doing what your doing are going to attack or just plain don't want to hear it.

If you don't have anything constructive to add other than offering 1000 ways why you hate this car then it's falling on def ears.

It's cutting edge for me in many ways still in the fact of how it's built and what it's created from in an affordable way. The batteries are also very interesting when you read up on them, not so cut and dry. The factory in which it's created is also very very interesting and BMW invested billions to make it one of if not the cleanest most efficient car factory in the world.

So I have awarded their efforts by buying their car. It wasn't an afterthought and took over 10 years of R&D with the minis and 1 series to make something truly new and different.

Their research showed most don't drive over 80 miles a day especially where the i3 is intended, the fact is people want ICE sort of range regardless so their slowly getting their. And it sells quite well in other parts of the world where the range is less of an issue. America is still to big and spaced apart for low milage EV's to work unless the car is used in the inner city like it was designed for but in some cases even our cities don't have the EV infrastructure to work well. Now I'm in Chicago so EV's are very well taken care of.

To this day it's like nothing else on the road and Still feel like I'm driving a concept car. So for me it's a stellar and very interesting EV.

Will I buy another ? When I'm ready for the I8 absolutely !
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      04-22-2017, 09:33 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remlemasi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
[...]the i3 doesn’t have the same fun-to-drive DNA as other vehicles produced by BMW. The car’s handling was sloppy and the front tires didn’t have much grip especially when accelerating.
[...]
And there it is! BMW gets beat by an American brand car and ...
[...]
Nothing in this statement is true.
Why are you still posting?
<Efthreeoh>, while I agree with some of the points you make, your in-your-face confrontation seeking style is really off-putting.

I don't know if you intend to come through as a BMW i3 hater (or Bolt lover?), but this is hardly the place to find support for such a view point. For obvious reasons.

So allow me to repeat the question <remlemasi> raised: why are you still posting on this forum?


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      04-22-2017, 12:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
So allow me to repeat the question <remlemasi> raised: why are you still posting on this forum?


Answer is obvious. He is a troll.


About the Bolt, might be good, might be bad. All I can say is it is not here to try or buy, but based on previous experience of US cars, it's likely to be substandard.
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      04-23-2017, 06:52 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
<Efthreeoh>, while I agree with some of the points you make, your in-your-face confrontation seeking style is really off-putting.

I don't know if you intend to come through as a BMW i3 hater (or Bolt lover?), but this is hardly the place to find support for such a view point. For obvious reasons.

So allow me to repeat the question <remlemasi> raised: why are you still posting on this forum?


a
Since you asked, I'm still posting because I made a simple point of fact about the i3 in counter to BMW's hyped press release. -c- and you made issue of it. I've just been defending my position. I never said the i3 sucks, I just said based on the data the Bolt is the better EV for what MOST people buy a car for, practicality. It's larger and has better range. I could have said the i3 is ugly (most people think it is), but I didn't because that is a subjective discussion. But the typical BMW fanboy attacks come out: "the interior sucks", "it's ugly", "it's an American POS", or "it handles like shit".
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      04-26-2017, 12:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
<Efthreeoh>, while I agree with some of the points you make, your in-your-face confrontation seeking style is really off-putting.

I don't know if you intend to come through as a BMW i3 hater (or Bolt lover?), but this is hardly the place to find support for such a view point. For obvious reasons.

So allow me to repeat the question <remlemasi> raised: why are you still posting on this forum?


a
Since you asked, I'm still posting because I made a simple point of fact about the i3 in counter to BMW's hyped press release. -c- and you made issue of it. I've just been defending my position. I never said the i3 sucks, I just said based on the data the Bolt is the better EV for what MOST people buy a car for, practicality. It's larger and has better range. I could have said the i3 is ugly (most people think it is), but I didn't because that is a subjective discussion. But the typical BMW fanboy attacks come out: "the interior sucks", "it's ugly", "it's an American POS", or "it handles like shit".
For the record, I view the Chevy Bolt as one of the most important milestone-cars in modern history. Affordable, semi-long-range EV. Nearly as significant as the Model S and Nissan Leaf. All awesome pieces of engineering and all significant in their own right.

However, I also view the i3 as a milestone car in terms of design, manufacturing and sustainability. The way this car is built is literally like no other.

It's also rear-wheel drive, which is a near-requirement for all my cars. I love the dynamics of RWD and really dislike FWD handling.

I'm looking forward to tech developed for the i3 and i8 to trickle down into the rest of the BMW range (and eventually to the rest of the auto market), which has already started with the new 7 Series and all ePerformance models.

That is the primary goal of the BMW i. Research and design of novel technologies that are not 100% mature, but allow consumers to directly experience them and help fund future development.
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      04-26-2017, 09:00 PM   #37
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Several of us from the BMW i3 SoCal Facebook group meet up this past weekend at the Petersen Automotive Museum in LA. One of the members brought his new Bolt. Really neat.

This photo is kind of hilarious / timely in the context of the thread

1 Bolt vs 6 i3 at the line of scrimmage.

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      04-26-2017, 10:52 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remlemasi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
<Efthreeoh>, while I agree with some of the points you make, your in-your-face confrontation seeking style is really off-putting.

I don't know if you intend to come through as a BMW i3 hater (or Bolt lover?), but this is hardly the place to find support for such a view point. For obvious reasons.

So allow me to repeat the question <remlemasi> raised: why are you still posting on this forum?


a
Since you asked, I'm still posting because I made a simple point of fact about the i3 in counter to BMW's hyped press release. -c- and you made issue of it. I've just been defending my position. I never said the i3 sucks, I just said based on the data the Bolt is the better EV for what MOST people buy a car for, practicality. It's larger and has better range. I could have said the i3 is ugly (most people think it is), but I didn't because that is a subjective discussion. But the typical BMW fanboy attacks come out: "the interior sucks", "it's ugly", "it's an American POS", or "it handles like shit".
For the record, I view the Chevy Bolt as one of the most important milestone-cars in modern history. Affordable, semi-long-range EV. Nearly as significant as the Model S and Nissan Leaf. All awesome pieces of engineering and all significant in their own right.

However, I also view the i3 as a milestone car in terms of design, manufacturing and sustainability. The way this car is built is literally like no other.

It's also rear-wheel drive, which is a near-requirement for all my cars. I love the dynamics of RWD and really dislike FWD handling.

I'm looking forward to tech developed for the i3 and i8 to trickle down into the rest of the BMW range (and eventually to the rest of the auto market), which has already started with the new 7 Series and all ePerformance models.

That is the primary goal of the BMW i. Research and design of novel technologies that are not 100% mature, but allow consumers to directly experience them and help fund future development.
Well put! I can stand behind that!
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      08-17-2017, 01:53 PM   #39
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hat is the primary goal of the BMW i. Research and design of novel technologies that are not 100% mature, but allow consumers to directly experience them and help fund future development.
The funding future development part is not cool for current buyers ....

Having said that, $20k off i3 is no chump change, and is mainly paid by government, so what the heck, why not?
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      08-19-2017, 03:17 PM   #40
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I am not sure where weight came into the discussion, but since it has been mentioned, here is the manufacturers' data for weight and range:
........car..........weight........range...
i3-BEV 60Ah : 2,886 lbs .. 84 miles
i3-BEV 94Ah : 2,961 lbs 114 miles
i3-REX 94Ah : 3,234 lbs 180 miles
Chevy Bolt....: 3,563 lbs 238 miles

As cheap as Bolt is, I'm not least bit tempted to drive a Chevy.

Tesla Model 3, on the other hand, temptation is thy name....
... and I really don't care what its weight is going to be (range is north of 215 miles).

a
You realize your data show that the Bolt has better range per pound of car weight than the i3 in BEV either version. I took the change in weight and range between the two versions of the i3 and extrapolated it to a 60 kWh i3, and it still loses to the Bolt. The Bolt is 10 cubic feet bigger in passenger/cargo space and is faster to 60 than the i3.

i3-BEV 60Ah : 2,886 lbs .. 84 miles.... 29.1 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
i3-BEV 94Ah : 2,961 lbs 114 miles.... 38.5 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
i3-REX 324Ah: 3,234 lbs 180 miles..... 55.6 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
i3-BEV 171Ah: 3,359 lbs 194 miles.... 59.9 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight (if there were a 60 kWh i3)
Chevy Bolt.. : 3,563 lbs 238 miles..... 66.8 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight

And somehow GM managed to not need carbon fiber...

I'm not in least bit temped to drive an i3. I've driven both cars. The Bolt is the superior engineered vehicle despite its lack of Eucalyptus wood and hemp door panels.

And if we compare just the two REX's from BMW and GM...

i3-REX 324Ah: 3,234 lbs 180 miles..... 55.6 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
GM Volt 318Ah: 3,533 lbs 420 miles..... 118.5 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
The Bolt is a different kind of car. I wonder what the economy is on the Bolt? Sure it has range, but how much does it cost for a recharge? How does the car handle? The i3 handles sublimely. It's also much more pleasant to sit in. I also find it much more handsome.
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      08-19-2017, 08:04 PM   #41
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The Bolt is a different kind of car. I wonder what the economy is on the Bolt? Sure it has range, but how much does it cost for a recharge? How does the car handle? The i3 handles sublimely. It's also much more pleasant to sit in. I also find it much more handsome.
The Bolt is more efficient based on passenger volume and vehicle weight. I've driven both. The Bolt handles as well if not better than the i3. They are the same kind of car - same class range, same MSRP, same tax credit.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 08-20-2017 at 07:17 AM..
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      08-20-2017, 11:37 AM   #42
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Wink

The Bolt is the best car in the world! Happy now?

Nothing beats the Bolt...at anything. The Bolt is bigly good, really good....other cars are just fake news...bad...really bad....trust me.

Believe me, the Bolt is gonna make GM great again....bigly great
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      08-20-2017, 04:36 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The Bolt is a different kind of car. I wonder what the economy is on the Bolt? Sure it has range, but how much does it cost for a recharge? How does the car handle? The i3 handles sublimely. It's also much more pleasant to sit in. I also find it much more handsome.
The Bolt is more efficient based on passenger volume and vehicle weight. I've driven both. The Bolt handles as well if not better than the i3. They are the same kind of car - same class range, same MSRP, same tax credit.
I'd still rather be sitting in an i3, honestly.
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      08-22-2017, 09:00 PM   #44
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The Bolt is the best car in the world! Happy now?

Nothing beats the Bolt...at anything. The Bolt is bigly good, really good....other cars are just fake news...bad...really bad....trust me.

Believe me, the Bolt is gonna make GM great again....bigly great
Nope, not now; I've been happy for quite some time.
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