Forum for the entire range of BMW electric vehicles
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW i8 Forums BMW i8 General Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-17-2017, 01:09 AM   #1
vance
Private First Class
36
Rep
157
Posts

Drives: BMW i8
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

2020 Tesla Roadster

Tesla had an unveiling last night that showcased their new Roadster slated for year 2020 production.
  • 0 to 60mph in 1.9 seconds
  • 0 to 100mph in 4.2 seconds
  • Quarter mile in 8.8 seconds
  • 620 mile electric range (fully electric car obviously)
  • $200,000 USD price, $50,000 deposit required up front
  • Top speed over 250mph

https://www.tesla.com/roadster/

This pretty much puts the i8 (and most other supercars/hypercars) to shame. What's everyone else's thoughts?


Last edited by vance; 11-17-2017 at 07:56 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2017, 04:09 AM   #2
Aye-eight
Major
Aye-eight's Avatar
Switzerland
509
Rep
1,177
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i8
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: My garage

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
It’s still a Tesla ... ;-)

IMHO, all Tesla does is milk the superior power delivery of an electric motor over a combustion engine. That’s it. Nothing else to it. Pure electric grunt aside, I still don’t think they’re very good cars overall. Because they’re not made by a car company. Tesla can get there, no doubt. But it’s getting harder as the big boys are waking up. I wouldn’t put money on the expectation that Tesla will be the only ones with those type of performance figures in 4-5 years’ time.

And they have to be able to make it, first. They‘re still a company that makes cars in very small numbers. What they produce in a month, VW or Toyota build in a day and a half. Tesla is finding out the hard way how difficult it is to put up a large-scale, smooth-running car production, incl. supply chain etc. And then they want to keep adding models, like this Roadster and the truck. They’re adding complexity before having gotten their current three-model line-up sorted. And Elon Musk is already showing signs of burn-out.

All that said, I sure would like to test one - must be quite exciting. Those are performance numbers of serious sports bikes.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2017, 07:34 AM   #3
ericsi
Lieutenant
124
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: On my 2nd i8 already
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: London

iTrader: (0)

the point of this car is to raise $50k deposit for each car.

They need huge amounts of cash in the short term to survive.

Business plan was to shift 10,000 model 3 per week. They are only building 45...
Appreciate 2
Patrik158.00
      11-17-2017, 08:09 AM   #4
Jo-Sta07
Captain
Jo-Sta07's Avatar
474
Rep
687
Posts

Drives: Ferrari 458, BMW i8, Acura NSX
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale/Pittsburgh

iTrader: (0)

After experiencing a 720s I have zero desire to experience acceleration like that. I don't need to feel like I'm going to die every time I drive my car.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2017, 08:16 AM   #5
jcpca356
Lieutenant
jcpca356's Avatar
164
Rep
465
Posts

Drives: i8
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

yeah but it looks like shit
__________________
2015 BMW i8, 2018 Triumph Bobber Black, 2005 Lotus Elise Widebody, 2019 Rav4 Hybrid, 2019 Tundra TRD, 2019 Trek Powerfly 5 (love it!)
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2017, 09:56 AM   #6
hytek
Private First Class
United_States
37
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: i8, 335i
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

620 miles range. Battery weight would be a concern.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2017, 11:30 AM   #7
fishpond
First Lieutenant
United Kingdom
77
Rep
367
Posts

Drives: i8
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsi View Post
the point of this car is to raise $50k deposit for each car.

They need huge amounts of cash in the short term to survive.

Business plan was to shift 10,000 model 3 per week. They are only building 45...
Yes, Musk is very good at funding the Tesla business using the public's deposit money - just look at the number of deposits he has taken on the Model 3.

He also seems to be very good at announcing new concept vehicles to deflect attention away from delays and missed targets (the Model 3 in this instance)!!!
Appreciate 1
      11-17-2017, 06:23 PM   #8
Coastali8
First Lieutenant
United_States
126
Rep
306
Posts

Drives: 2015 Crystal White Giga World
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Oregon coast

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW i8  [10.00]
1970 Porsche 914-6  [0.00]
2018 BMW i3s REx  [0.00]
I would have to agree with the statement about raising cash with the deposits. I think that Tesla is counting on future battery technology that doesn’t exist right now to make this car happen. The Battery in the model S weights 1200 pounds and range averages around 270 miles. To go twice as far and three times faster I think right now is a stretch. It appears that the prototype really does do 0-60 in 1.9 seconds but I doubt that the range is there yet.
I still don’t see the fascination with Tesla in the first place. I’ve driven their cars and find them to be really nothing special. Just big heavy 5000 pound tubs with a whole bunch of batteries in the floor.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2017, 08:54 PM   #9
MalibuBimmer
Founder, Knights of the Roundel website
MalibuBimmer's Avatar
United_States
967
Rep
1,723
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4 and 2018 AMG GT
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Santa Monica Mountains, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 Mercedes AMG GT  [0.00]
2018 Audi Q3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M4  [10.00]
Tesla can't continue to bleed cash and it can't make Model 3s fast or well enough to make a profit on them. It will become a takeover target for what is essentially its low tech battery system by 2019. I'm guessing Hyundai-Kia or Mazda will try to buy it. Ford and GM are developing their own electrics in the U.S. and all of the European makes are moving ahead as well in house.

I suspect Mazda will win out and eventually make trucks and luxury sedans with Tesla's assets and manufacturing facilities.

The Model 3 is as dead as a door knob but no one wants to admit it. When they do admit it, Tesla is gone as a viable standalone car company.
__________________
Previously: 2014 i8; 2013 650i convertible; 2013 650i Gran Coupe; 2013 X1; 2010 550i GT; 2010 535 GT; 2010 Z4 3.5; 2008 535ixt; 2007 M6 convertible; 2006 650i convertible; 1996 Z3; 1980 633CSi; 1978 630CS; 1972 3.0CS; 1971 Bavaria. (1971; 1979-2005 & 2017 - ? -- the Mercedes years.)
Appreciate 1
      11-18-2017, 01:55 AM   #10
fishpond
First Lieutenant
United Kingdom
77
Rep
367
Posts

Drives: i8
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, UK

iTrader: (0)

Also worth adding that Tesla's interior quality is somewhat questionable and their QA is appalling. A friend of mind recently purchased a Model X and the inconsistency with the gaps around the doors/panels was shocking...

As soon as Porsche's Mission E (due in 2019), BMW's iNext (~2020) and other truly premium manufacturers launch their all-electric offerings, I can't see why anyone in their right mind would even consider a Tesla with its inferior build quality and high price point.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2017, 08:03 AM   #11
Jo-Sta07
Captain
Jo-Sta07's Avatar
474
Rep
687
Posts

Drives: Ferrari 458, BMW i8, Acura NSX
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale/Pittsburgh

iTrader: (0)

Not a lot of love for Tesla here and I totally get it
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2017, 01:53 PM   #12
JasH
Lieutenant Colonel
JasH's Avatar
United Kingdom
621
Rep
1,646
Posts

Drives: McLaren & Ferrari & i8 & i3
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Kent, UK

iTrader: (0)

I don't believe the claimed figures for a second.

Even assuming battery tech reaches the required levels by 2020, the car will only achieve such acceleration in some sort of "unusable" ludicrous type mode i.e. a limited number of times and doing great damage to the batteries etc. Just like current Ludicrous mode.

And it will be so heavy it will still handle like a barge and not go around corners.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2017, 09:40 PM   #13
vance
Private First Class
36
Rep
157
Posts

Drives: BMW i8
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Has there actually been any sort of evidence or proof that using Ludicrous or Ludicrous Plus modes actually degrades the battery or any components of the car over time? I haven't seen any reports of that personally
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2017, 06:04 AM   #14
NGR
Lieutenant
United Kingdom
102
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: i8
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Sounds like they're banking on future tech here, it's simply not possible with current batteries, the weight, the damage from discharging so quickly etc as people have pointed out above.

The other thing is how to put that much power on the road and keep low rolling resistance to maintain the range at 620 miles (EVs have skinny tyres for a reason - even the i8)

250 mph top speed - great idea and achievable with batteries/motors no doubt even ignoring the huge discharge. However, the aerodynamics come into play massively at these speeds, cars like the Veyron have incredible features to enable them to go that fast and stay on the road, variable spoilers, special tyres and aero tweaks all over the body - that Tesla just don't look like it's designed to go that fast.

Just for the record, I love the ideas of Musk like EVs, landing rockets etc. and believe it will happen but this is just headline grabbing nonsense.
__________________
2014 i8
2002 x5 4.6is
Appreciate 1
JasH621.00
      11-19-2017, 10:12 AM   #15
JasH
Lieutenant Colonel
JasH's Avatar
United Kingdom
621
Rep
1,646
Posts

Drives: McLaren & Ferrari & i8 & i3
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Kent, UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vance View Post
Has there actually been any sort of evidence or proof that using Ludicrous or Ludicrous Plus modes actually degrades the battery or any components of the car over time? I haven't seen any reports of that personally
Tesla themselves confirmed this.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2017, 11:15 AM   #16
orion1977
Private First Class
58
Rep
126
Posts

Drives: '14 i8 & '14 328i
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ocala

iTrader: (0)

Rimac Concept 1 is an electric roadster with over 1,000 hp, and it’s numbers don’t even come close to what Tesla is alleging. One wonders how accurate Tesla’s claims are.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2017, 06:04 PM   #17
Zipforia
Captain
Zipforia's Avatar
98
Rep
693
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: So. Cal.

iTrader: (0)

If the number are true, I'm getting one for sure!

Z.
__________________
2016 BMW I12 | 2017 Honda FK8
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2017, 06:33 PM   #18
HHBruin
Enlisted Member
3
Rep
31
Posts

Drives: BMW i8 (Protonic Blue)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Hacienda Heights, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vance View Post
Has there actually been any sort of evidence or proof that using Ludicrous or Ludicrous Plus modes actually degrades the battery or any components of the car over time? I haven't seen any reports of that personally

why would you need to replace the battery after 50 uses if each use didnt do any damage to the battery?
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2017, 08:43 PM   #19
vance
Private First Class
36
Rep
157
Posts

Drives: BMW i8
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HHBruin View Post
why would you need to replace the battery after 50 uses if each use didnt do any damage to the battery?
The guy that runs Tesla Racing Channel on YouTube has a Model S P100D, he gutted the interior, and drag races it on a daily basis. I've never once heard him mentioning have to replace his battery. He probably uses Ludicrous Plus mode 10-20 times in a day.
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2017, 11:44 AM   #20
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7905
Rep
11,785
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo-Sta07 View Post
Not a lot of love for Tesla here and I totally get it
Actually there has been A TON of love for Tesla in these forums in the past. It seemed like nearly anyone posting had a deposit on the model 3 and was ready to leave BMW. - oh wait .. model 3 still isn't being delivered ... hmm yes.. might be those same folks ..

How many deposits have they collected for the model 3... ? It was supposed to just slay every other vehicle on the market because Tesla was going to inmediately be able to produce hundreds of thousands of them ..
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2017, 12:07 PM   #21
MalibuBimmer
Founder, Knights of the Roundel website
MalibuBimmer's Avatar
United_States
967
Rep
1,723
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4 and 2018 AMG GT
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Santa Monica Mountains, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 Mercedes AMG GT  [0.00]
2018 Audi Q3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M4  [10.00]
I read that the $35,000 Model 3 is currently being sold in the $60,000 range. Is that true? If so, Musk has learned a thing or two from BMW and Mercedes. But it doesn't bode well for buyers with $35,000 in hand.
__________________
Previously: 2014 i8; 2013 650i convertible; 2013 650i Gran Coupe; 2013 X1; 2010 550i GT; 2010 535 GT; 2010 Z4 3.5; 2008 535ixt; 2007 M6 convertible; 2006 650i convertible; 1996 Z3; 1980 633CSi; 1978 630CS; 1972 3.0CS; 1971 Bavaria. (1971; 1979-2005 & 2017 - ? -- the Mercedes years.)
Appreciate 0
      11-29-2017, 09:01 AM   #22
Longboarder
Major General
Longboarder's Avatar
3374
Rep
6,765
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
The Roadster could be revolutionary if it came out today. However highly unlikely that it would produce those accel stats in the prototype configuration otherwise they would have done some actual demonstration.

Likely they are hoping for battery tech to evolve so that by the launch date in 2020 (which will also be delayed given their history) this accel might be possible.

You can come close today for less money so the Roadster is not really a big deal. My 991 Turbo S with a couple bolt ons does mid-high 9's at 144. 0-60 in low 2's. On street tires. It makes a 720S seem slow. My buddy's 991 with similar mods but better rear tires drove a couple hundred miles to MIR and did 10 passes all at 9.6 seconds at 144-147 mph.

Here's my 991 in action at NoFlyZone this month and pictures from Shift Sector in October where the 720S declined to race me unfortunately since he knew the outcome already.

Attached Images
   
__________________
Current BMWs: 2021 X5M, 2012 e92 M3, 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i
2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S
a couple others
IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST