[T330]

Originally Posted by Madvillain

i still cant unsee the 991 911 coming out the back end lol.

Now I can't either haha

[NGR]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

You said Tesla is "crushing it" with its "electric motors and batteries." I don't think that statement is defensible, from any perspective, either technologically or industrially. Technologically Tesla's batteries are 20 years old.

Must admit I was surprised that Tesla just bolted together a load of 18650 cells into rectangular boxes - feels like a prototype way of getting a battery together.

I saw a couple of TV programs on BMW making the i8/i3 and it shows the batteries being "folded" from very thin strips that make proper rectangular batteries (like you get in cell phones), this will increase energy density over the 18650 (imagine a load of AAs next to each other, there's plenty of air between them because they are cylindrical). It hinted that BMW might be manufacturing the batteries in their own plant, not sure if they are but they have definitely in-sourced the e-motor manufacturing.

The thing with Tesla is that they could probably go for the better batteries quite easily (maybe they've already started making them). The rest of the car however: balance, fit and finish, safety, comfort, handling, refinement, image etc... are things that other companies have been perfecting for 100+ years.

[MalibuBimmer]

Here are Youtubes showing the batteries of the Telsa. The technology of 1990.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Madvillain

i still cant unsee the 991 911 coming out the back end lol. would be unteresting if they made an m version with either the s55 or s63tu.

Mine gave birth to a 991 Turbo S and GT3. Pretty stoked that the i8 could do this.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Levente_CSL

if you say so, since your name is Malibu Bimmer, you must know everything how the world will change in the next coming years. please tell me more. What will happen in 2026?

Don't believe his baseless stories.

He is lawyer that believes his own words even when he doesn't have a clue as to what the facts really are.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Here are Youtubes showing the batteries of the Telsa. The technology of 1990.

And then?

You know nothing about Tesla's current development in battery technology.

[evanevery]

I have a Tesla Model X and I have my dealers 1st allocation on an i8 Roadster. I also had a Chevy Volt before the Tesla.

The i8 is not a very practical "electric vehicle" or hybrid... It just cant compete with any of the current Tesla vehicles.

If I could only have a single EV, it would certainly be the Tesla. The i8 Roadster will be replacing my M6 Convertible as my low mileage summer weekend car.

The i8 is interesting and fun, but it is nowhere as functional as a ModelX, ModelS, or Model3. The fit and finish on my BMW's is a little better than the Tesla, but what good is an EV that has no practical range or usefulness? (...other than a summer weekend "toy" car...)

[Docray1]

Did they change the color of the background of that odd "Roadster" B-pillar logo? It seems to look darker and a bit more acceptable on the Detroit car than it has previously. Agree on the disappointing tech upgrades. I really had hoped BMW would have put more into the i8 than what they seem to be delivering. Any word on price yet?

[Madvillain]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Mine gave birth to a 991 Turbo S and GT3. Pretty stoked that the i8 could do this.

dammm what a line up geez

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by NGR

Must admit I was surprised that Tesla just bolted together a load of 18650 cells into rectangular boxes - feels like a prototype way of getting a battery together.

I saw a couple of TV programs on BMW making the i8/i3 and it shows the batteries being "folded" from very thin strips that make proper rectangular batteries (like you get in cell phones), this will increase energy density over the 18650 (imagine a load of AAs next to each other, there's plenty of air between them because they are cylindrical). It hinted that BMW might be manufacturing the batteries in their own plant, not sure if they are but they have definitely in-sourced the e-motor manufacturing.

The thing with Tesla is that they could probably go for the better batteries quite easily (maybe they've already started making them). The rest of the car however: balance, fit and finish, safety, comfort, handling, refinement, image etc... are things that other companies have been perfecting for 100+ years.

Since batteries are pretty much plug and play, when the newer solid state batteries come out, one would think all the manufacturers including Tesla would would want to swap them in if they become available and add value. With the Giga factory coming on line, Tesla may have an advantage.

Tesla does have a lifestyle niche/demographic despite being rim bendingly overweight, not very agile. They know how to market and stay ahead of the perceived development curve which is an advantage over many other car companies (Mitsubishi i-MIEV anyone?).

[NGR]

Originally Posted by evanevery

The i8 is not a very practical "electric vehicle" or hybrid... It just cant compete with any of the current Tesla vehicles.

Agree completely on the practicality but I believe BMW simply won't make the i8 (or any larger car) fully electric with current battery tech - it's just too heavy and the handling wouldn't be good enough.

Tesla don't sell the handling, only the 0-60 times and range, that's good enough for most people who want into an EV and smoke everyone away from the lights. Tesla wouldn't have used 18650s if weight/handling was a major feature, each little cell even has a metal casing adding weight! The foldable lipo battery tech has been around since well before Tesla cars and definitely improves energy density.

Having said that, I don't know what they're doing at the giga factory, hopefully not re-packaging 18650s from LG!

Future battery tech will have structural parts of the car forming the battery (bits of chassis or even bodywork), then we're into a proper revolution

[NGR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvaQMTcckSg

About 8:40 into the video, you can see how BMW make the cells for their batteries and how much bigger and space efficient they are than Tesla's 18650 cells.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

So we should get an X5 and M4 like you?

Correction, yes it should be a X5M.

According to Autocar the i3 and i8 are history, so yes you'll be shopping around shortly.

BMW i3 and i8 might not be replaced
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...ot-be-replaced

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by NGR

About 8:40 into the video, you can see how BMW make the cells for their batteries and how much bigger and space efficient they are than Tesla's 18650 cells.

Originally Posted by NGR

About 8:40 into the video, you can see how BMW make the cells for their batteries and how much bigger and space efficient they are than Tesla's 18650 cells.

Tesla has new compact cells now too.

200kwh battery is going into the new T Roadster and the second Gen Model S / X

[Game]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

You said Tesla is "crushing it" with its "electric motors and batteries." I don't think that statement is defensible, from any perspective, either technologically or industrially. Technologically Tesla's batteries are 20 years old. Their electric motors use technology almost 100 years old. Tesla's production caspabilities lead to 90% quality control problems that require additional significant work on most of the cars after they leave the assembly line.

Like Henrik Fisker, Elon Musk talks a big game when it comes to his cars, but unlike his rockets the cold hard truth is he has not advanced the technology. So talking about "crushing it" may be a colorful phrase, but it has no basis in fact.

And, what of the 7,000 laptop size batteries per car. Can you answer that question?

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Are you referring to the 7000 laptop size batteries in every Tesla Model S? (Slightly larger than AA batteries.)

By 2020 all of the major car companies will have passed Tesla in technology and the capability to build a large volume of affordable cars while Tesla will still be having problems manufacturing its Model X with less than 90% assembly line QC problems.

By 2021 Tesla will be a takeover target. It will be gone by 2024.

If they're so technologically inept, how are they making the most efficient AND best performing electric cars on the road? You think that everyone's going to just magically discover new battery tech while Tesla falls asleep?

Fact is the i8 really only has one thing going for it, and that's the "cool" factor. At the end of the day it's a 170k confused car that gets you 34 miles electronically and runs a 4.4 0-60. Please stop being a fanboy.

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by Game

If they're so technologically inept, how are they making the most efficient AND best performing electric cars on the road? You think that everyone's going to just magically discover new battery tech while Tesla falls asleep?

Fact is the i8 really only has one thing going for it, and that's the "cool" factor. At the end of the day it's a 170k confused car that gets you 34 miles electronically and runs a 4.4 0-60. Please stop being a fanboy.

My i8 bored me. I no longer have it. It was a hybrid bridge to the future, using recycable parts and carbon fiber to great effect. But it is a transition car, just like the Teslas.

As for Tesla, it entered a space that was just gearing up. It attracted a cult of loyal drivers who ignore its ugly and bland design, heavy weight, the need to find a supercharger to have reasonable charging times, poor build quality, and ergonomics that are a worldwide joke. Oh, and did I mention its battery technology is from 1990 and every other manufacturer that is entering the space will leapfrog its technology by 2020.

I'm not the fanboi.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by NGR

Agree completely on the practicality but I believe BMW simply won't make the i8 (or any larger car) fully electric with current battery tech - it's just too heavy and the handling wouldn't be good enough.

Tesla don't sell the handling, only the 0-60 times and range, that's good enough for most people who want into an EV and smoke everyone away from the lights. Tesla wouldn't have used 18650s if weight/handling was a major feature, each little cell even has a metal casing adding weight! The foldable lipo battery tech has been around since well before Tesla cars and definitely improves energy density.

Having said that, I don't know what they're doing at the giga factory, hopefully not re-packaging 18650s from LG!

Future battery tech will have structural parts of the car forming the battery (bits of chassis or even bodywork), then we're into a proper revolution

You should do a little research on the new TESLA ROADSTER:

https://blog.caranddriver.com/new-te...20-mile-range/

You can go on and on about battery tech and this and that but it really doesn't matter. Fact is that Tesla has electric cars NOW that people actually want to buy and drive. BMW, not so much. BMW is being left in the dust in so many ways...

[MalibuBimmer]

The Tesla Roadster doesn't exist. It's an aspirational car. Tesla is having trouble making its touted bread and butter car, the Model X. 90% of them fail QC after going through the assembly line. And they're being pumped out at a fraction of their planned production. And at double the promised price.

Tesla has to get its sh!t together before it can think of yet another model or the truck. And by the time that happens everyone will have leapfrogged it.

[stressdoc]

Wowsers, maybe I should cash in my Tesla stock...

And when did the MSRP of the i8 get bumped up to 170k? And 0-60 slowed to 4.4? [maybe unreleased new facts for 2019 roadster?]

And how does all of this relate to the thread topic of the Detroit auto show update???

[vance]

Convertibles are always heavier/slower than coupes, that’s why

[fishpond]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Tesla has to get its sh!t together before it can think of yet another model or the truck. And by the time that happens everyone will have leapfrogged it.

That's assuming they don't go chapter 11 first...

[orion1977]

Originally Posted by Game

If they're so technologically inept, how are they making the most efficient AND best performing electric cars on the road? You think that everyone's going to just magically discover new battery tech while Tesla falls asleep?

Fact is the i8 really only has one thing going for it, and that's the "cool" factor. At the end of the day it's a 170k confused car that gets you 34 miles electronically and runs a 4.4 0-60. Please stop being a fanboy.

0-60 times are as low as 3.6 seconds. Most tests yielded 3.8s. See: https://www.0-60specs.com/bmw-i8-0-60-times/

Plus the car handles better, looks infinitely better, weighs less, and you won’t have range anxiety. Which car is better depends on what you care about, and for me handling, range, looks outweigh being a second faster going to 60.