Forum for the entire range of BMW electric vehicles
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW i3 Forums BMW i3 General Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-03-2015, 12:10 PM   #1
IcemanNorway
New Member
8
Rep
20
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 F25 2.0D M
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Norway

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 X3 F25  [0.00]
Bmw i3 xDrive

Hi,
Anyone heard of BMW throwing out the range extender and bringing in two electrical motors in the i3? Thus making it a xDrive version of it?
I thought I saw something about it, but can't find it again. It was due to the regen causing the rear axle to lock up in winter and of course better tracktion uphill. If anyone knows...

Last edited by IcemanNorway; 05-03-2015 at 04:21 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2015, 04:41 PM   #2
IcemanNorway
New Member
8
Rep
20
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 F25 2.0D M
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Norway

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 X3 F25  [0.00]
i3 xDrive

BMW i3 drivers report they seldom have need to use the brake pedal. They control the car with the steering wheel and the speed pedal. With the addition of a second motor (driving the front wheels), the single-pedal speed control could become much more powerful. The traditional advantages of all-wheel drive are obvious—improved traction and handling, especially in slick conditions.

With EVs, there is a very important advantage to having dual motors—this greatly improved regenerative braking (“regen”). During regen, only those wheels connected to the drive motor are able to slow the car. In the case of the i3, that’s the rear wheels. That’s fine for mild and moderate braking, but for strong braking, weight shift makes the rear wheel braking much less effective, and prone to skidding.

Regen in a dual-motor EV would not be subject to those problems. Software would control the percentage of braking handled front and rear, depending on conditions. The four-wheel regen could be as effective and consistent as friction brakes, and without the need to shift your foot between pedals.

Let's hope BMW introduce dual el motors ASAP.
Just look at Tesla.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2015, 05:37 PM   #3
-c-
Colonel
-c-'s Avatar
United_States
884
Rep
2,736
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanNorway
BMW i3 drivers report they seldom have need to use the brake pedal. They control the car with the steering wheel and the speed pedal. With the addition of a second motor (driving the front wheels), the single-pedal speed control could become much more powerful. The traditional advantages of all-wheel drive are obviousimproved traction and handling, especially in slick conditions.

With EVs, there is a very important advantage to having dual motorsthis greatly improved regenerative braking (regen). During regen, only those wheels connected to the drive motor are able to slow the car. In the case of the i3, thats the rear wheels. Thats fine for mild and moderate braking, but for strong braking, weight shift makes the rear wheel braking much less effective, and prone to skidding.

Regen in a dual-motor EV would not be subject to those problems. Software would control the percentage of braking handled front and rear, depending on conditions. The four-wheel regen could be as effective and consistent as friction brakes, and without the need to shift your foot between pedals.

Let's hope BMW introduce dual el motors ASAP.
Just look at Tesla.
Yea tell me about it. This past winter the rear kicking out on me was not fun..
Though partly because I have the 20" with the sport tires.

They didn't make winter tires in the 20" size.

Maybe this winter they will or I'll have to buy the 19" with winters.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2015, 07:26 PM   #4
jadnashuanh
Major
United_States
50
Rep
1,061
Posts

Drives: 535iGT x-drive; i3 BEV
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
Yea tell me about it. This past winter the rear kicking out on me was not fun..
Though partly because I have the 20" with the sport tires.

They didn't make winter tires in the 20" size.

Maybe this winter they will or I'll have to buy the 19" with winters.
Sorry, anyone who drives in snow with summer performance tires gets what they deserve! If you were in say Germany, you'd get a severe fine as they take safety and personal responsibility very seriously.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2015, 07:41 PM   #5
-c-
Colonel
-c-'s Avatar
United_States
884
Rep
2,736
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh
Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
Yea tell me about it. This past winter the rear kicking out on me was not fun..
Though partly because I have the 20" with the sport tires.

They didn't make winter tires in the 20" size.

Maybe this winter they will or I'll have to buy the 19" with winters.
Sorry, anyone who drives in snow with summer performance tires gets what they deserve! If you were in say Germany, you'd get a severe fine as they take safety and personal responsibility very seriously.
Hey it's what the flippin car came with get off my ass!!! Ok!

As I said they didn't make winter tires in my size and I wasn't about to drop $$$$$$ for new rims when I just bought the car. Sometimes we get no to little snow where I am just cold. I tried to get tires but again they didn't exist so please stop being such a ass I got your point the first 100 times you tried to make your point and I don't give a rats ass!

It got delivered in January. And our winter turned out to be bad. Winter tires will be on next year.

If BMW gave the option for all seasons in the 20" that's what would be on their but unfortunately that's not the case.

Jesus get over it!!!
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2015, 03:57 AM   #6
IcemanNorway
New Member
8
Rep
20
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 F25 2.0D M
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Norway

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 X3 F25  [0.00]
xDrive

Thanks for replaying, but are there any "insiders" that knows anything about BMW bringing in two motors (xDrive) for the near future?
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2015, 12:04 PM   #7
jadnashuanh
Major
United_States
50
Rep
1,061
Posts

Drives: 535iGT x-drive; i3 BEV
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

The owner's manual and all of the documentation specifically say the 20" tires are SUMMER PERFORMANCE tires, and should not be used in cold or snowy conditions. Somebody living in say So Cal, may never care...most others, take heed. Summer performance tires are a hazard in the winter where it gets cold, then throw in snow, you'll have problems. The i3 is not the only car out there that BMW sells this way. To call the car out as having a problem, is just misguided. You want the right tires on the car for the right reasons...safety is more important than 'style', which might kill you.

As I said, if you had the i3 with 20" summer performance tires on it in many places in the world where they treat personal responsibility and safety more highly than in the USA, you'd be severely fined as a reminder to your ignorance.

Some people never learn...
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2015, 12:14 PM   #8
-c-
Colonel
-c-'s Avatar
United_States
884
Rep
2,736
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh
The owner's manual and all of the documentation specifically say the 20" tires are SUMMER PERFORMANCE tires, and should not be used in cold or snowy conditions. Somebody living in say So Cal, may never care...most others, take heed. Summer performance tires are a hazard in the winter where it gets cold, then throw in snow, you'll have problems. The i3 is not the only car out there that BMW sells this way. To call the car out as having a problem, is just misguided. You want the right tires on the car for the right reasons...safety is more important than 'style', which might kill you.

As I said, if you had the i3 with 20" summer performance tires on it in many places in the world where they treat personal responsibility and safety more highly than in the USA, you'd be severely fined as a reminder to your ignorance.

Some people never learn...
It's not that I didn't know jadnashuanh, or that I was being ignorant. STOP JUDGING!

Hell I drove my 135is from Florida with Michelin super sports cross country and came into snow and that was waayyyyyy worse than the i3 with its tires. Since I had just bought it I didn't have the chance to get the proper tires and wheels till I got home.

Before you spout off about someone being ignorant and that some people never learn their is sometimes more to the story.

In the case of the i3 their was an issue with even regular tires which I have confirmed with others here where I live where they nearly lost it because of the regen braking so it's not just the summer tires and yes they make it worse.

I've said many times that the issue was compounded because of my 20" wheels with the summer rubber and said that as a warning to others I knew it was dangerous.

But since the beginning you have hounded me like I was completely clueless.

You should to be more constructive with your feedback and not so condescending. It achieves nothing. This argument is a dead horse.

BMW would be wise to at a minimum give the driver the choice of how much regen they want so in bad weather they don't have this issue. In fact my dealer stopped test drives in bad snowy whether due to the fact that people where thrown off from the rear coming loose even with the standard all seasons so yea it sounds like BMW has a problem.

Not everyone may be as good a driver as you.

The op was talking about the dual motors and I was agreeing with the benefit of having such.
So please let's get back on topic and stop arguing about this.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2015, 07:41 PM   #9
jadnashuanh
Major
United_States
50
Rep
1,061
Posts

Drives: 535iGT x-drive; i3 BEV
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

FWIW, with all of the front wheel drive cars and all-wheel drive ones most people drive, many people have problems with a rear-wheel drive one...especially an EV that has so much torque off the line, and especially if it doesn't have tires suited to the purpose in the bad winter conditions. All-season tires are a compromise all seasons, and in bad weather, even they are not the best tool for the job.

Because of the extra weight and complexity, and that front-wheel driven (even all-wheel drive) vehicles often end up with restricted turning radii compared to undriven wheels, it would tend to make the city vehicle less useful. You can only turn CV joints so far, which limits the turning radius. The i3 is a gem in that regard that would be lost if it went all-wheel drive. THere's very little storage space in the frunk as it is...throw a motor in there, and you'd lose that functionality as well. I suppose you could consider something like a wheel-mounted motors and forgo the drive shafts and CV joints, but then you'd be adding two motors, and lots of additional logic to keep it driving straight without being twitchy. Running the power to them would need to be protected well, too...again, more complexity, cost, weight, and for this vehicle...doesn't make sense to me. There's no room to run a driveshaft to a front-mounted differential, so additional motor(s) would be required.

It does make sense in the i8 hybrid, and it sounds like the i5, whenever it shows up (2020?) may take that up with a similar drivetrain (but a MUCH bigger battery). Different cars, designed for different purposes. Rumor has that the i5 will have at least a 75Kw battery, a bigger electric motor AND a decent ICE to keep things charged and interesting. THat thing should fly long distances in either EV or hybrid modes. Time will tell. In 5-years, with 75Kw, CFRP to keep the weight down, who knows how far it will go, but I'd bet MUCH further than a Tesla. In the meantime, I do not see all-wheel drive coming to the i3. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, though.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2015, 09:27 PM   #10
-c-
Colonel
-c-'s Avatar
United_States
884
Rep
2,736
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh
FWIW, with all of the front wheel drive cars and all-wheel drive ones most people drive, many people have problems with a rear-wheel drive one...especially an EV that has so much torque off the line, and especially if it doesn't have tires suited to the purpose in the bad winter conditions. All-season tires are a compromise all seasons, and in bad weather, even they are not the best tool for the job.

Because of the extra weight and complexity, and that front-wheel driven (even all-wheel drive) vehicles often end up with restricted turning radii compared to undriven wheels, it would tend to make the city vehicle less useful. You can only turn CV joints so far, which limits the turning radius. The i3 is a gem in that regard that would be lost if it went all-wheel drive. THere's very little storage space in the frunk as it is...throw a motor in there, and you'd lose that functionality as well. I suppose you could consider something like a wheel-mounted motors and forgo the drive shafts and CV joints, but then you'd be adding two motors, and lots of additional logic to keep it driving straight without being twitchy. Running the power to them would need to be protected well, too...again, more complexity, cost, weight, and for this vehicle...doesn't make sense to me. There's no room to run a driveshaft to a front-mounted differential, so additional motor(s) would be required.

It does make sense in the i8 hybrid, and it sounds like the i5, whenever it shows up (2020?) may take that up with a similar drivetrain (but a MUCH bigger battery). Different cars, designed for different purposes. Rumor has that the i5 will have at least a 75Kw battery, a bigger electric motor AND a decent ICE to keep things charged and interesting. THat thing should fly long distances in either EV or hybrid modes. Time will tell. In 5-years, with 75Kw, CFRP to keep the weight down, who knows how far it will go, but I'd bet MUCH further than a Tesla. In the meantime, I do not see all-wheel drive coming to the i3. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, though.
I agree with you.

It's nice in concept but the truth is I don't see it coming looking at the frame of the car in detail it seems like it wasn't devised with a motor to fit in their and also with the car not selling like hot cakes it makes big overhaul redesigns harder to sell so soon.

It would be nice however but perhaps an option for the next iteration or generation.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2015, 10:40 PM   #11
jadnashuanh
Major
United_States
50
Rep
1,061
Posts

Drives: 535iGT x-drive; i3 BEV
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

At least in the I-series, BMW focuses on a specific task. IF the functionality fits your needs, great. It was purpose designed with one thought in mind, though, so changing functionality makes it harder. The i5 sounds like it will fit the long-distance cruiser function of a family sedan with attitude. With the big battery, it will also be able to go all-electric (from a bigger platform) if you needed to run around a city area that gives preference for zero emissions vehicles (such as London) but still be able to cross the continent without compromise. When it comes time to replace my ICE, that may be in my sights. Way too early to tell, and the ICE doesn't have many miles or wear on it, so should easily last that long unless I get really bored with it. The i3 gets driven most of the time since I truly do live in the city, and don't have to drive far to most anything I need. My average trip in the i3 is easily less than 15-miles round trip, most things are within 3-miles. The BEV works great, and in that distance, while I may get up to 70mph, most of the roads speed limit is a lot less, and battery consumption is mostly irrelevant.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2015, 08:53 AM   #12
IcemanNorway
New Member
8
Rep
20
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 F25 2.0D M
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Norway

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 X3 F25  [0.00]
xDrive

Regarding space, a small el motor should be able to fit in the front. There aren´t any space for luggage there anyway.
Throwing out the range extender, would leave more room in the back.
The next generation batteries will also be better in terms of performance / size. And also the motor in the back doesn´t has to be 170 alone, so the luggage booth should be larger with twin engine solution. 2x80-90hp engine instead?
I could live with a meter longer turning radius. It would be a more interesting car, that´s for sure. In Norway, 90% of the 5 series sold are xDrive. So you don´t have to be a genius to figure out how to sell more i3 here.
The only problem is the cars will be more expencive and now the car is more pricy than the eGolf and Leaf allready..

Last edited by IcemanNorway; 05-05-2015 at 09:29 AM..
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2015, 10:09 AM   #13
-c-
Colonel
-c-'s Avatar
United_States
884
Rep
2,736
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanNorway
Regarding space, a small el motor should be able to fit in the front. There arent any space for luggage there anyway.
Throwing out the range extender, would leave more room in the back.
The next generation batteries will also be better in terms of performance / size. And also the motor in the back doesnt has to be 170 alone, so the luggage booth should be larger with twin engine solution. 2x80-90hp engine instead?
I could live with a meter longer turning radius. It would be a more interesting car, thats for sure. In Norway, 90% of the 5 series sold are xDrive. So you dont have to be a genius to figure out how to sell more i3 here.
The only problem is the cars will be more expencive and now the car is more pricy than the eGolf and Leaf allready..
True it's small but the HVAC system is taking up that space. I've been to the dealer when they had my front end off and it's incredibly tight in their.

If you remove the box in the front you'll see that theirs no big open space and the car would need major overhaul to accept such a motor.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:04 PM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST