[-c-]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I can't speak for other areas of the country, but in and around NE, most BMW dealers also rely on ChargePoint to install the EVSE, and then ask customers to pay the charging costs. I am yet to see a free dealer L2 EVSE (though that's the setup with most shopping malls). Most BMW dealers pass-through the electricity cost (~10c/kWh), but a few mark them up to $1-2 / kWh.

I don't know what EVgo expansion plans are, but in the one and only encounter I've had with them so far, I'm not terribly impressed.

a

Yea at least here in Chicago their all free charging our dealers here have chargers that they use and a row for travelers and I can just pull up and plug in like at my house. Pretty convenient and nice they don't charge.

It seems like 75% of the commercial chargers around here are free of charge.

Chargepoint is the charger of choice here in Chicago, Their has been a few big juice bar boxes here in Naperville and such but have never been EV Go.

It's unfortunate their as bad as you say and hopefully they redo their prices. Enough people reject it and it will change. It's like Sirius sat radio, I pay for it because I hate commercials, if EV driving is more expensive than gas I have no reason to use them and would just drive the x5, They will put them selves out of business with a plan like that. 20 bucks before you even get started! Blasphemy!!!

[VacMan1]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Well, did I say that a few days too early !?!.

After 20 months if EV ownership, I finally got @#$%-ed by an EVgo public L2 charger last night.
In a spectacular way.

Note 1: I have had a ChargePoint account (pay per kWh as you go, at the rates established by EVSE owner, which are frequently $0.00). I had setup a ChargePoint account online ~2 years ago, when I first encountered a ChargePoint EVSE. I was super easy, and I still haven't spent the original $20.00 credit.
Note 2: I had never previously run into EVgo chargers. This was my first encounter with their hardware and customer support.

It was sunny and below freezing yesterday, yet my better half had the urge to go shopping for one reason or another. And the kids decided to tag along, so there we were, ~55 miles one way from home, counting on the ChargePoint L2 chargers to get us back from an outlet mall just north of the NJ/NY border.

Once we got there, I was surprised to discover that ChargePoint EVSEs had been removed, and replaced with EVgo hardware.
OK, so how hard could it be to take advantage of them?

EVgo is the official BMW's partner (you get few minutes of charging for free from them), they have a dedicated BMW on-boarding process, and a dedicated web site www.chargenowusa.com
Right?

I found the link my SA's (sales associate) emailed me after ordering a new MY17 i3. It took me to the ChargeNowUSA web site with instructions for setting up a new account. Nice.

I go through the registration, but it suddenly requires to enter an EVgo card #, which I don't have. I call EVgo support line (conveniently open 24/7), and they tell me that they can't get me a card unless I commit to an annual EVgo plan (cancellation penalties and all). And even then it will take 2-3 business days to process the order and get me a card. It's a sweetheart of a deal: $5.95 monthly maintenance fee, $4.95 per session connection fee, additional hour/per minute charges, etc, etc. Basically a total rip off, compared to ChargePoint.

OK, so even that wasn't going to help me get the car charged on an freezing afternoon, since I don't have a card on me. What else could they do?

They could one-time unlock the charger for me for $10.81 plus tax!
That's in-your-face rip-off pricing (full battery charge from ChargePoint usually costs $10 c/kWh, or $1.81), but OK, lets go.

I'm ready to be ripped off by the BMW NA's preferred charging partner.

Take my credit card # and lets recharge my i3.
It starts well and good, though I'm freezing next to the charger reading off the "asset ID #" to the customer support guy, after a few false tries, the electrons start flowing. So I lock the car and head out to catch the rest of the family and warm up.

After an hour and a mile of walk-shopping, I logged into BMW Connect app to check on the charging progress, and discovered that the charging stopped after reaching 13% battery capacity. WTF?

I call EVgo 800#, get a yet another support guy who can't help me, since he can't find any records of previous conversations without EVgo account. "Would I like to enroll now?"

"@#$% yes, but you wont be able to process registration on the spot to let me start charging immediately, would you?"

"Well sir... ... I can submit I trouble ticket and our team will get back to you in 2-3 business days..."

Long story short, unless I went back to the parking lot to read off the "asset ID #" back to him, he would not be able to do anything for me.

So he didn't do anything.
My car didn't get charged, but my CC did. I will deal with that later.

I made it home on REX, with 4 miles to spare (highway driving in <20F temps kills the range). I could have stopped to refill the tiny gas tank, but was comfortable with my math.

Moral of the story - you now need an EVgo account if you plan to rely on L2/L3 charging infrastructure in North East. And you need to lube up whenever you have to use it.

Instead of supplementing and growing the L2/L3 charging infrastructure, EVgo has deployed BMW NA funds to compete with, and wipe out ChargePoint EVSEs around these parts.

a

P.S.: The above is a highly abridged version of an already long story. There were 5 calls to EVgo customer support in total. Results are as reported.
P.P.S.: When I got back to the car to leave, EVgo EVSE displayed reason for terminating charging early was "charging error", as displayed on the UI screen. Never seen that before any other EVSE hardware.

Your 17 came with 2 cards in the car that are preactivated. I used mine before I even signed up. Unlimited charging for 24 months. If you didn't get the cards thats your dealer's fault.

http://chargenow.chargepoint.com/fast-charging

[copmagnet82]

Originally Posted by VacMan1

Your 17 came with 2 cards in the car that are preactivated. I used mine before I even signed up. Unlimited charging for 24 months. If you didn't get the cards thats your dealer's fault.

http://chargenow.chargepoint.com/fast-charging

I think he was talking about his '14, not the new one he's picking up

[remlemasi]

Originally Posted by VacMan1

Your 17 came with 2 cards in the car that are preactivated. I used mine before I even signed up. Unlimited charging for 24 months. If you didn't get the cards thats your dealer's fault.

http://chargenow.chargepoint.com/fast-charging

When did they start preactivating them? And when does the 24 month period start? Sale date?

[remlemasi]

Duplicate

[VacMan1]

Originally Posted by remlemasi

When did they start preactivating them? And when does the 24 month period start? Sale date?

All I know is I used mine several times long before I was officially enrolled per the site. It took at least two weeks to actually go live on the site.

Sorry I'm not up on everyone's vehicles. My info applies to any new purchase.

[krautmeister]

Originally Posted by copmagnet82

I think he was talking about his '14, not the new one he's picking up

Hello there. I'm resuscitating an old thread but I'm looking at a used i3 as well. They are pretty inexpensive now and in Atlanta, there is a glut of inventory so I have a pretty good selection of used 2 year old i3s. I'm a F10 guy but looking for a commuter + sports car. I was wondering how your transition to EV has been over a year now?

[wzhao6898]

I'm in the same boat, and have been looking at some 2014 i3s, with about 35K miles, and in about $17,000 to $22,000 range, are they good deals?
BTW, I know buying a used EV won't get me qualified for federal and state (CA) rebates, but can I still eligible when I buy or lease a new EV later on?
Thanks in advance!

David

[bailyhill]

I don't remember anyone posting that buying a used EV affects the rebates for a subsequent purchase of an EV and get the fed or state rebate. Did you hear to the contrary.

I am on my 3rd EV. Took over a lease for an i3 two years ago, and in the fall, turned it in and leased a 2017 REX. Got the Fed tax credit rolled in the lease, and got the state rebate last week.

Bailyhill

[jmg]

Originally Posted by krautmeister

Hello there. I'm resuscitating an old thread but I'm looking at a used i3 as well. They are pretty inexpensive now and in Atlanta, there is a glut of inventory so I have a pretty good selection of used 2 year old i3s. I'm a F10 guy but looking for a commuter + sports car. I was wondering how your transition to EV has been over a year now?

How much are they down there? Check what year and the range. Newer i3s have slightly improved range. With an F80 as a secondary car, I think it's great. Will you be keeping your F10?

[copmagnet82]

Originally Posted by krautmeister

Hello there. I'm resuscitating an old thread but I'm looking at a used i3 as well. They are pretty inexpensive now and in Atlanta, there is a glut of inventory so I have a pretty good selection of used 2 year old i3s. I'm a F10 guy but looking for a commuter + sports car. I was wondering how your transition to EV has been over a year now?

Not sure if my response is still relevant, but I never got a notification for this reply. Either way, here it comes:

...surprisingly, I'm really liking the i3 for what it is. It's saving me a lot of money on gas ($400.00 a month after subtracting the increased cost of electricity). It's a lot easier to be sitting in Chicago traffic in the i3 then it was in a 6-speed manual TL. I speed a lot less, because I have to watch my range (especially during winter months), which translated into less stress from looking out for the law enforcement officers and less speeding tickets. Maintenance on it is non-existent as of now, which again saves me money. Also, it forced me to plan ahead more and give myself more time for travel, which in my case is a good thing.

In my opinion, depending on your family needs, it's a perfect 2nd or 3rd car. I use my car as a commuter and my wife uses it (when I'm home and don't need the car) to run errands. For longer trips we use the MDX, and for fun I got the S2000's.

The are 2 things that are a little concerning to me and I don't like about the car: one is safety, especially when I have to put my 2-year old son in it, but fortunately it doesn't happen too often (...and it's probably all psychological); two is the short range and the fact that I have to plan my trips now. In my case it was just a "behavioral" adjustment.

Overall, looking at the pros and cons, I'm really liking it ...and almost loving it. If I were to do it again today, I would pay a little extra for the larger battery, which was not a reasonable option at the time I was buying my car, and in my particular situation. Hope that helps.

[nsquared]

Does the REX gas' power up the heat differently than the pure electric versions?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by nsquared

Does the REX gas' power up the heat differently than the pure electric versions?

No. The REx is purely a generator for the battery.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by krautmeister

Hello there. I'm resuscitating an old thread but I'm looking at a used i3 as well. They are pretty inexpensive now and in Atlanta, there is a glut of inventory so I have a pretty good selection of used 2 year old i3s.

Originally Posted by wzhao6898

I'm in the same boat, and have been looking at some 2014 i3s, with about 35K miles, and in about $17,000 to $22,000 range, are they good deals?

It's hard to comment on the specifics of regional pricing without researching the particulars. I've gone through two buy/lease i3 evaluations over the past 3.5+ years, and each time concluded that my finances will be significantly better off if I leased a new i3.

Your analysis and conclusions may differ, but don't underestimate the rate of battery capacity obsolescence and the massive depreciation hits that brings to used car values. BMW will release the 3rd gen Samsung battery in this year's i3, upping capacity yet again to what will likely be close to 3x that of the 1st gen i3 battery.

Originally Posted by krautmeister

I'm a F10 guy but looking for a commuter + sports car. I was wondering how your transition to EV has been over a year now?

I am on my 2nd i3: had an MY'15 REX, now a year into MY'17 BEV lease.
As you can surmise, I've fully transitioned into the EV world and abandoned the REX safety net. But doing so required a mental adjustment, giving up on using EV as a ICE-car substitute, which it is not.

EVs in general, and i3 in particular, are fantastic commuter / 2nd cars. But they remain a highly impractical substitute for a weekend / all purpose ICE cars.

As an F80 guy, I can also tell you with certainty that i3 is not a sports car. Not by any stretch of imagination.
If you are keeping your F10 and picking up an i3 - you will love it, and likely save some money along the way.
If you are thinking of replacing F10 with an i3 - you will be deeply disappointed.

a

[bailyhill]

Originally Posted by afadeev

It's hard to comment on the specifics of regional pricing without researching the particulars. I've gone through two buy/lease i3 evaluations over the past 3.5+ years, and each time concluded that my finances will be significantly better off if I leased a new i3.

Your analysis and conclusions may differ, but don't underestimate the rate of battery capacity obsolescence and the massive depreciation hits that brings to used car values. BMW will release the 3rd gen Samsung battery in this year's i3, upping capacity yet again to what will likely be close to 3x that of the 1st gen i3 battery.




I am on my 2nd i3: had an MY'15 REX, now a year into MY'17 BEV lease.
As you can surmise, I've fully transitioned into the EV world and abandoned the REX safety net. But doing so required a mental adjustment, giving up on using EV as a ICE-car substitute, which it is not.

EVs in general, and i3 in particular, are fantastic commuter / 2nd cars. But they remain a highly impractical substitute for a weekend / all purpose ICE cars.

As an F80 guy, I can also tell you with certainty that i3 is not a sports car. Not by any stretch of imagination.
If you are keeping your F10 and picking up an i3 - you will love it, and likely save some money along the way.
If you are thinking of replacing F10 with an i3 - you will be deeply disappointed.

a

Pretty much ditto. I am in the same boat--almost the same story. We have an X3d and a 328d for our first cars. The i3, 2017 Rex is a second car. Living in the NE, I use the i3 for almost everything. When going skiing, I take the x3. The i3 misses out on the awd which I need for my winter ski house. I do take the i3 in the better weather for this 250 mile round trip. The i3 does everything I could ask. Will welcome more range next time. I love the thing. I did the buy vs lease analysis on my 2015 lease, and with the Mass rebate and BMW incentives, the lease of the new one was cheaper in my analysis. Plus I got the extra range, comfort access, & moon roof. I was totally planning on buying the 2015 for about 22K with low miles, but the lease was a better deal.

Bailyhill

[Zivko]

Hi everyone,

I am working on a thesis based on EVs future demand. It is really hard to find EV owners, so I refer to this forum, and really hope you can help me. I need at least 30-40 survey participants that are EV owners and till now I just got 9 of them.

I would really appreciate if you could take 3 minutes of your time and help me!

https://www.1ka.si/a/159182

[krautmeister]

Originally Posted by afadeev

It's hard to comment on the specifics of regional pricing without researching the particulars. I've gone through two buy/lease i3 evaluations over the past 3.5+ years, and each time concluded that my finances will be significantly better off if I leased a new i3.

Your analysis and conclusions may differ, but don't underestimate the rate of battery capacity obsolescence and the massive depreciation hits that brings to used car values. BMW will release the 3rd gen Samsung battery in this year's i3, upping capacity yet again to what will likely be close to 3x that of the 1st gen i3 battery.

I am on my 2nd i3: had an MY'15 REX, now a year into MY'17 BEV lease.
As you can surmise, I've fully transitioned into the EV world and abandoned the REX safety net. But doing so required a mental adjustment, giving up on using EV as a ICE-car substitute, which it is not.

EVs in general, and i3 in particular, are fantastic commuter / 2nd cars. But they remain a highly impractical substitute for a weekend / all purpose ICE cars.

As an F80 guy, I can also tell you with certainty that i3 is not a sports car. Not by any stretch of imagination.
If you are keeping your F10 and picking up an i3 - you will love it, and likely save some money along the way.
If you are thinking of replacing F10 with an i3 - you will be deeply disappointed.

a

Thanks for the responses!

To clarify, I wouldn't replace my F10 with an i3. I was looking for a sports car (p car etc) and a i3 as a commuter / baby carrier. My F10 was a compromise of both and I have found I hardly ever have my daughter in that car so the back seats might as well not be there!

Great insights on lease vs buy preowned. I think I would go for the full EV as I've heard REX preowned are almost always in bad shape as folks used them in the ICE mindset.