[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by Pictor

Even the e-GMP platforms can pull low 200kW off all those chargers and do so across the curve. Those e-GMP cars are 800v and limited to about 350amp which almost all CCS1 DCFC dispensers support. My own first hand experience in the North East, South East and South West with 800v cars has been great as far as 800v support goes. I have no doubt that the SC network experience would suck with one of those cars but there is certainly a benefit to owning an 800v car even today. I wouldn't trade an 800v car for a 400v car just to be able to use the SC network at some point in the next year.

Pretty sure that an E-GMP car is << 100 kW on a 400V charger like the V3 Supercharger.

My point is that when Supercharger access opens up, there are not that many times when an 800V car would be a whole lot faster than a 400V. But there will be many times that an 800V car could be radically slower than a 400V car.

There are only about 1,000 350 kV stations in the US (~4,000 ports). By contrast there are about 4x as many 400V Superchargers, so the 400V cars will be able to thrive while 800V cars will be on the Supercharger sidelines. 800V cars are years away from truly benefiting from Supercharger access while 400V cars will be loving life from day one of access.

[Pictor]

For cargo and bikes, the Macan has something that that iX lacks. This is specific to the US/NA market and I know it's available elsewhere. You can order the Macan EV in the US with a trailer hitch but not something that's offered on the iX from the factory. Your move BMWNA

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by Louis_BE

They have almost the same booth space … 540L + frunk for the Macan, BMW iX 500L That is below the divider (the iX will have more if you remove that) 🤷*♂️ Looks can deceive …

It's not volume, it is length. Not all volume is usable volume...

My iX has about 75" from the back of the front seat to the inside of the trunk. That is enough room to stow my road bike with a few inches on each end so the wheels will not mar the seat or trunk. Do you know that same dimension on the Macan? It looks to be at least a foot shorter, in which case it would not easily swallow my road bike.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

Pretty sure that an E-GMP car is << 100 kW on a 400V charger like the V3 Supercharger.

My point is that when Supercharger access opens up, there are not that many times when an 800V car would be a whole lot faster than a 400V. But there will be many times that an 800V car could be radically slower than a 400V car.

There are only about 1,000 350 kV stations in the US (~4,000 ports). By contrast there are about 4x as many 400V Superchargers, so the 400V cars will be able to thrive while 800V cars will be on the Supercharger sidelines. 800V cars are years away from truly benefiting from Supercharger access while 400V cars will be loving life from day one of access.

We can agree to disagree although we're saying almost the same thing. My point is that I see more benefit from 800v than I do from access to the SC network. Unless I were driving through MT, ND, SD, or WY, I haven't had a hard time charging using existing CCS1 dispensers and given the option to use one of the 4 EA stations vs the 12 SC across the street I would not miss anything by getting a charge at 800v. So for me 800v > 400v hands down every single day of the week. This is an area that T* is way behind the curve even though they burst to more than 500A on some vehicles.

[Louis_BE]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

It's not volume, it is length. Not all volume is usable volume...

My iX has about 75" from the back of the front seat to the inside of the trunk. That is enough room to stow my road bike with a few inches on each end so the wheels will not mar the seat or trunk. Do you know that same dimension on the Macan? It looks to be at least a foot shorter, in which case it would not easily swallow my road bike.

Could be but as mentioned, you can have the macan with a trailer hitch …
Need to wait till some of the more in depth reviews are out to see how deep it really is, but my feeling is that it is indeed shorter in that config.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by Pictor

We can agree to disagree although we're saying almost the same thing. My point is that I see more benefit from 800v than I do from access to the SC network.

This is probably the crux of it... Where I live and would likely road trip my car, there are many Superchargers and almost no CCS chargers of any kind. So, I could not road trip my car to Panama City Beach today, because the nearest CCS is too far away from my destination. By contrast, I could easily do it on the SC network. Same as if I wanted to road trip to Mentone, Alabama with friends. Easy with SC but very challenging with CSS. So in both of those cases, 800V would be a liability for me.

But for people who want to road trip in areas with ample 350 kW CCS chargers available, then 800V would be awesome.

[Pictor]

I don't doubt there are gaps in coverage but it might be interesting to see a real comparison even in those areas. I just did a quick ABRP comparison between an iX and an EV6 standard range from Atlanta GA to Panama City FL and guess which had shorter charging stops and had a shorter time to destination even with sub 350kW dispensers? Hint, it was the car with significantly less range. I have driven both cars extensively but haven't had a chance to do a real world side by side comparison so YMMV.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by Pictor

I don't doubt there are gaps in coverage but it might be interesting to see a real comparison even in those areas. I just did a quick ABRP comparison between an iX and an EV6 standard range from Atlanta GA to Panama City FL and guess which had shorter charging stops and had a shorter time to destination even with sub 350kW dispensers? Hint, it was the car with significantly less range. I have driven both cars extensively but haven't had a chance to do a real world side by side comparison so YMMV.

Oh, it is easy to get there. But then what do you do? How do you drive around town and recharge? Look how close the nearest CCS charger is to PCB... When I last plotted a course, it was at I-10 in Chipley.

That said, I just pulled it up on PlugShare, and there is now a CCS station listed at a bank off 98. So, that may be new and could be viable. I am doing the trip in a couple weeks, but I will definitely take our gas SUV, since I am not ready to trust that station would work... yet...

[thebishman]

It would have been nice if the update was based on 800V architecture, but no doubt that would be prohibitive in the iX which is supposed to ‘die’ in the 2028 model year. What would really be excellent is if BMW, based on accumulated data, changed the parameters within the BMS to markedly change the charging curve to resemble that of the original Audi etron, which can pull well over 150kWhr to 80%, and 100kWhr to 90% SoC. In this way it would markedly help reduce time spent at a DCFC on longer trips. I wouldn’t want to see a bigger battery in the iX as the range is plenty, unless the bigger battery was no heavier than the current one.
Why change the rear lights? I love the ‘blacked out’ versions on my M60; they look great imho.
Get some real, comfortable ’Sport’ oriented seats into the M60, or soon to be M70 version, with an option for the new iX60 to have them also.
In the other Macan thread, I posted that I don’t think the iX is a competitor to the Macan, but perhaps the iX3 Neue Classe will be.

[hugo_nz]

A few things appear evident from the photos:

• The shape if the headlights are not changing, merely the light design
• The shape of the grille is not changing, and the illumination will likely mirror that of the XM and i7
• There does not appear to be any sign of LiDAR hardware in the front so likely no expanded autonomous driving will be offered

I personally prefer the white/smoke rear light housing and the current eyebrow light signature.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

Oh, it is easy to get there. But then what do you do? How do you drive around town and recharge? Look how close the nearest CCS charger is to PCB... When I last plotted a course, it was at I-10 in Chipley.

That said, I just pulled it up on PlugShare, and there is now a CCS station listed at a bank off 98. So, that may be new and could be viable. I am doing the trip in a couple weeks, but I will definitely take our gas SUV, since I am not ready to trust that station would work... yet...

Once at the destination it's a different problem. I routinely travel to a small town in upstate NY that only has questionable L2 chargers and a SC with 6 stalls that are almost always full. When I go up there I will typically drive a 3 or Y to use on the SC but they also just opened up a new DCFC site so I may switch to something that offers more driving enjoyment. If I can use L2 chargers then I always prefer that but until recently none of the hotels in that town offered L2 and I really didn't want to wait 6 hours at a coffee shop to charge up. We need more focus on destination chargers in this country -- in addition to more corridor DCFC.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by Pictor

Once at the destination it's a different problem. I routinely travel to a small town in upstate NY that only has questionable L2 chargers and a SC with 6 stalls that are almost always full. When I go up there I will typically drive a 3 or Y to use on the SC but they also just opened up a new DCFC site so I may switch to something that offers more driving enjoyment. If I can use L2 chargers then I always prefer that but until recently none of the hotels in that town offered L2 and I really didn't want to wait 6 hours at a coffee shop to charge up. We need more focus on destination chargers in this country -- in addition to more corridor DCFC.

If I could get L2 at either of the places we typically go, then local DCFC would be a non-factor. But without, local DCFC is critical.

My dad did a road trip from Atlanta to NE Florida. There was no L2 and no nearby DCFC at the destination. So, he had to arrive with enough battery, park it, and preserve enough juice to get back out to that first charger on the way home.

[LuisBoston]

The only 2 items on my iX wishlist would be better seats and a power opening panoramic moonroof.

[Kennethjk]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

If I could get L2 at either of the places we typically go, then local DCFC would be a non-factor. But without, local DCFC is critical.

My dad did a road trip from Atlanta to NE Florida. There was no L2 and no nearby DCFC at the destination. So, he had to arrive with enough battery, park it, and preserve enough juice to get back out to that first charger on the way home.

Curious, where in NE Florida?

[roxxor]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

If I could get L2 at either of the places we typically go, then local DCFC would be a non-factor. But without, local DCFC is critical.

My dad did a road trip from Atlanta to NE Florida. There was no L2 and no nearby DCFC at the destination. So, he had to arrive with enough battery, park it, and preserve enough juice to get back out to that first charger on the way home.

Not sure what part of NE Florida he was at, but I live here and there is plenty of L2 and a few L3 around, including the one EA station nearby. Could definitely be more though, a few I used to use with my PHEV have closed or just stopped working and haven’t been repaired.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by Kennethjk

Curious, where in NE Florida?

I cannot remember exactly. It was somewhere in that dead zone between Gainesville and Jacksonville. His friends did not know of any L2 around, and I think the closest DCFC was about 50 miles away.

[FultonMDUSA]

These minor changes don't do anything for me. I'm looking for significant ADAS improvements to upgrade.

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by hugo_nz

I personally prefer the white/smoke rear light housing and the current eyebrow light signature.

I much prefer the translucent rear lights in the sports package to the red tinted ones.

Originally Posted by FultonMDUSA

These minor changes don't do anything for me. I'm looking for significant ADAS improvements to upgrade.

Me as well. I will not consider any sale or trade until we have full L3 autonomy and a minimum 450-500 mile EPA range. That's just what it will take for me to think about it. I don't need either of those things at the moment. My last EV I owned for 9 years. The ICE vehicle before that 7 years. I own my cars for a long time because, well, I work too hard for my money to keep throwing it out the window for useless incremental changes.

[frank70]

Originally Posted by hugo_nz

A few things appear evident from the photos:

• The shape if the headlights are not changing, merely the light design
• The shape of the grille is not changing, and the illumination will likely mirror that of the XM and i7
• There does not appear to be any sign of LiDAR hardware in the front so likely no expanded autonomous driving will be offered

I personally prefer the white/smoke rear light housing and the current eyebrow light signature.

If we look at this picture it seems the front grille shape will stay the same but the grille (at least in what is likely the M-sport version) will look more like the grille of the i5 M60. I am not sure if that is a good thing to be honest.....

I think the grille will likely get the same treatment the i4 LCI just got. It seems there are 2 versions of the i4 after LCI. One with this sporty grille like is shown on the picture of the iX LCI in the picture, and one that looks like the current IX/I4 grille for the upper part, but different in the lower part. It also seems the lower part of the front bumper will become more agressive, which is likely a good thing.

[M60Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Windshieldfarmer

I’m only 7 months into my lease but I’ve already decided I will return to a gasser if charging speeds and range don’t improve. Love the vehicle but it is a pretty big compromise when traveling distance.

Although I don't drive longer distances and just charge at home I'm disappointed with the range and charging rate of my 2023 M60.
My 2021 1020 hp Tesla Model S Plaid charges at a rate of 34-5 mph and gives me a range of 275 miles at 80% charge.
The M60 charges at a rate of 22-3 miles per hour and only gives me a range of maybe 200 miles at 90% charge.
The M60 is 30% less range in below freezing temperatures while the Tesla is like 5-10% less range.
I typically drive aggressively but the 2 year older 1020 hp Tesla is superior in range and charging speed
To the 520 hp in standard mode BMW.
Otherwise I paid cash for it and like the M60 as a traditional style SUV and have no plans to sell or trade it in as as I've added 1000 watts rms of aftermarket stereo with real 2 x 12" subs and skirts and spoilers and I like having 2 cars.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by M60Cruiser

Although I don't drive longer distances and just charge at home I'm disappointed with the range and charging rate of my 2023 M60.
My 2021 1020 hp Tesla Model S Plaid charges at a rate of 34-5 mph and gives me a range of 275 miles at 80% charge.
The M60 charges at a rate of 22-3 miles per hour and only gives me a range of maybe 200 miles at 90% charge.
The M60 is 30% less range in below freezing temperatures while the Tesla is like 5-10% less range.
I typically drive aggressively but the 2 year older 1020 hp Tesla is superior in range and charging speed
To the 520 hp in standard mode BMW.
Otherwise I paid cash for it and like the M60 as a traditional style SUV and have no plans to sell or trade it in as as I've added 1000 watts rms of aftermarket stereo with real 2 x 12" subs and skirts and spoilers and I like having 2 cars.

This is one of the things I researched a ton when I was doing my BEV shopping and research. There is a lot to unpack here.

First and foremost, the ranges of the 2021 Model S Plaid and 2023 iX M60 are similar, with the advantage going to the iX. The iX is probably around 4% to 15% longer range than the MSP, depending on speed and driving style. (Instrumented tests have the iX 15% longer range at 70 MPH, 9% longer in mixed driving, and 4% longer at 75 MPH.)

The charge rate differences you cite are not real numbers. They are fabrications based on the different ways that both automakers do their internal calculations. They charge at essentially the same rates - around 11 kWh. The BMW iX has a slightly larger battery than the Model S Plaid, so the true miles/hour of charging is probably almost identical.

The range numbers the cars show you on the dash or app are meaningless for comparison purposes. The Tesla displays published EPA range multiplied by battery SoC. The iX forecasts range based on environmental conditions, recent driving patterns, and battery SoC.

[M60Cruiser]

Well I have to charge my BMW every second day vs every 3 days for the Tesla so the Tesla is better in a meaningful comparison.
It's also a lot more fun to drive.