BMW i
Forum for the BMW i3, i4 and i8
BMW i3 BMW i8
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW i Forums > BMW i3 / i4 Forums > BMW i3 and BMW i4 General Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-01-2013, 10:30 PM   #89
ecaedus
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2008 328i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 177
iTrader: (0)

the scion XB looks better than i3, that RX-8 mini door thing is hideous(it looked good on the RX-8)

looking forward to a normal car from the i division, something in terms of 3/4 series form, performance and price but with pure electric drive.
ecaedus is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2013, 11:06 PM   #90
jadnashuanh
Captain
 
Drives: 535iGT x-drive; i3 BEV
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

Posts: 747
iTrader: (0)

I think most of you are just missing the point...

This is designed as a city car to get people around congested areas, carry them in reasonable comfort and safety. High speed is irrelevant, but good torque to get started and zip here and there and get the groceries or other purchases home is required. Good space utilization is more important for this than swoopy looks which generally compromise one or the other of what I think are the prime goals. With the available range, it meets the needs of the majority of commuters. If it doesn't meet your needs, nobody's going to break your arm to buy it, nor make it the only choice.

I think it is all about choice...there ARE people out there where this is a good choice. It may not be your choice, just like going to the store to buy some clothes...there are some things you just wouldn't ever consider wearing, but they appeal to others. Who are you to tell them they can't or shouldn't?

How about a mature attitude where you choose to not like something, but not be a juvenile about it and classify it as terrible like trying to get a 5-year old to eat his broccoli. Tastes and expectations are different, and a little restraint and acceptance of differences is the higher road. Why not take it?
jadnashuanh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2013, 11:15 PM   #91
Soorena
Captain
 
Drives: M3 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Paris

Posts: 795
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChRR1000S View Post
Who buys this crap? Id rather spend 36k to keep a E46 320D running for the next 20 years before buying a car this ugly....

I am curious about how "green" the production of these "ECO" - Cars really are, and after all, the production of electricity still causes CO2 emissions / radioactive waste.

Untill the Production of Electricity isnt 100% nuclear/coal/fossile fuel and emission free I will stick to combustion engines.
Well put. If you are a regular buyer who just want something cheap to run, i don't see how this junk makes sense. It's ugly, it's not much cheaper to fully charge your batteries than filling up your tank (at least not in here), i bet maintaining is pricier (you don't swap your engine every 5 year), and i don't think they will be reliable (Electric glitches are part of BMW standard equipment) and at 36,000, this is way too expensive.

If you are a so-called environmentalist, things are a bit different. If you think God created you just to make world a better place for baby penguins and your life-time goal is hugging as many trees as you can my first recommendation to you is walking. That's the least polluting way of transportation. Then there is the Blue Motion VW's. Polo Blue Motion helps environment more than EV's (coal still is the biggest source of electricity). You can even get a sub 100 gr/km CO2 Golf diesel and while you are helping muses, you will help yourself by driving a very decent car that will do anything that i3 does plus more. And when you run out of fuel, you can simply refuel in a station in just few seconds something that an EV simply can't.

Hope this i project fails. At that point BMW have to get back to something they did best and that's making real cars.
Soorena is offline   Iran
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2013, 12:51 AM   #92
MrSugarSkulls
New Member
 
Drives: F12 m6
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Diego

Posts: 28
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChRR1000S View Post
Who buys this crap? Id rather spend 36k to keep a E46 320D running for the next 20 years before buying a car this ugly....

I am curious about how "green" the production of these "ECO" - Cars really are, and after all, the production of electricity still causes CO2 emissions / radioactive waste.

Untill the Production of Electricity isnt 100% nuclear/coal/fossile fuel and emission free I will stick to combustion engines.
Well put. If you are a regular buyer who just want something cheap to run, i don't see how this junk makes sense. It's ugly, it's not much cheaper to fully charge your batteries than filling up your tank (at least not in here), i bet maintaining is pricier (you don't swap your engine every 5 year), and i don't think they will be reliable (Electric glitches are part of BMW standard equipment) and at 36,000, this is way too expensive.

If you are a so-called environmentalist, things are a bit different. If you think God created you just to make world a better place for baby penguins and your life-time goal is hugging as many trees as you can my first recommendation to you is walking. That's the least polluting way of transportation. Then there is the Blue Motion VW's. Polo Blue Motion helps environment more than EV's (coal still is the biggest source of electricity). You can even get a sub 100 gr/km CO2 Golf diesel and while you are helping muses, you will help yourself by driving a very decent car that will do anything that i3 does plus more. And when you run out of fuel, you can simply refuel in a station in just few seconds something that an EV simply can't.

Hope this i project fails. At that point BMW have to get back to something they did best and that's making real cars.
+1000000000000000000 to what you last said
MrSugarSkulls is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2013, 01:52 AM   #93
Touring
Captain
 
Touring's Avatar
 
Drives: F11,i3,E21,Porsche 928GT,E30
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posts: 929
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
. Once it is planted it will grow and expand.
BMWi has 600 firm orders for the i3
I am one of those. Why? Because its a perfect city car, and I love new technology. The carbon fiber technology is the deal breaker for me!

Just watch CNN one day, you see the effect of the climate change everyday, so I will do my little share. I will use it as my daily driver. The Porsche 928, BMW E30 and E21 I will use for fun, the F11 for out of town travel.

And electric cars have a future. Here in Oslo, Nissan Leaf is the second best selling car in June, second only to VW Golf.

BMW i : its electric!
Touring is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2013, 01:59 AM   #94
esquire
Colonel
 
esquire's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 Dakar Yellow M3 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orange County, California

Posts: 2,800
iTrader: (0)

July 29th: BMW unveils their biggest mistake ever.
__________________

[ESS VT2-625] [Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust] [KW Clubsports] [OSS Angel Eyes] [Revinora r-CRT Lip]
[Vorsteiner Boot] [Challenge Race Diffuser] [See the Build Thread HERE]
esquire is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2013, 07:17 AM   #95
cc3
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 1M,X5
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: .UK

Posts: 476
iTrader: (0)

I will lease one as I like the fact they are using new technology. I also like supporting the brand rather than knocking it.
cc3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2013, 08:23 AM   #96
rave426
Oh Hai
 
Drives: 997.1 Porsche 911 GT3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 295
iTrader: (0)

BMW

Stahp
__________________
BMW don't screw up the M3. K
rave426 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2013, 10:45 AM   #97
cc3
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 1M,X5
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: .UK

Posts: 476
iTrader: (0)

Like the idea that you can hand back the i3 for say the weekend and pick up say a 5/6 series from the dealer all within the terms of leasing contract. Great idea for holidays.
cc3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2013, 01:41 PM   #98
Matski
Lieutenant
 
Matski's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 328i Sport E46 320d Tourer
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England

Posts: 567
iTrader: (0)

I like it, I'll be checking it out once it hits dealers, which will be a way off yet.
__________________
3/15 to i8, and everything in between (yep, even including the F26 and F45)
Matski is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2013, 02:12 PM   #99
SCOTT26
Colonel
 
SCOTT26's Avatar
 
Drives: Frozen Dark Silver 30 Jahre
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

Posts: 2,961
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
Well put. If you are a regular buyer who just want something cheap to run, i don't see how this junk makes sense. It's ugly, it's not much cheaper to fully charge your batteries than filling up your tank (at least not in here), i bet maintaining is pricier (you don't swap your engine every 5 year), and i don't think they will be reliable (Electric glitches are part of BMW standard equipment) and at 36,000, this is way too expensive.

If you are a so-called environmentalist, things are a bit different. If you think God created you just to make world a better place for baby penguins and your life-time goal is hugging as many trees as you can my first recommendation to you is walking. That's the least polluting way of transportation. Then there is the Blue Motion VW's. Polo Blue Motion helps environment more than EV's (coal still is the biggest source of electricity). You can even get a sub 100 gr/km CO2 Golf diesel and while you are helping muses, you will help yourself by driving a very decent car that will do anything that i3 does plus more. And when you run out of fuel, you can simply refuel in a station in just few seconds something that an EV simply can't.

Hope this i project fails. At that point BMW have to get back to something they did best and that's making real cars.
FYI The BMW i3 MegaCity Vehicle will be offered in eDrive and ReX versions.
ReX is a range extended i3 with additional two cylinder BMW engine from the BMW Motorrad division.

If you hope that BMWs project I fails then you want the whole of BMW to fail.
This 1 billion investment just does not cover cars , but an entire new engineering approach at BMW which has left our more resourceful competitors way behind in developing new methods of material construction and production.

The i3 introduces the world to the first volume production car made from CFRP which is possible because BMW have perfected its CFRP use over the years allowing to be cost effective for use within the M6 , M3 and forthcoming M4 that our competitors cannot match.

Audi might have been pioneering aluminium space frame technology but where is their modern equivalent?
Everybody has caught up even BMW used aluminium tech in models like the Z8 and Rolls-Royce Phantom and in the front structure of the E60 5er.

The next generation 7er begins the transition to a production BMW within the core series, promising lightweight and the most technically advanced 7er and if not BMW ever with an entry 7er weighing the same as a 520d.

Project-I is not just about BMWi . It will cover BMW , BMWM , MINI and Rolls-Royce, the investment was to develop the technology , production , infrastructure to support the entire BMW Group. In order to meet strict legislation being forced onto auto manufacturers the initiative will allow BMW to further its ambitions to meet these targets ahead of their competitors.
__________________
XS
SCOTT26 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2013, 05:22 PM   #100
cc3
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 1M,X5
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: .UK

Posts: 476
iTrader: (0)

Well said Scott. I totally agree. Those loyal to the brand will support the approach need to move with the times. I have paid my deposit and am quite excited about owning an I3. New technology interests me.
cc3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2013, 10:41 PM   #101
bimmerjph
Lieutenant Colonel
 
bimmerjph's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tennessee

Posts: 1,944
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The next generation 7er begins the transition to a production BMW within the core series, promising lightweight and the most technically advanced 7er and if not BMW ever with an entry 7er weighing the same as a 520d.
That is only 300lbs (135kg) ligter. That is massively disappointing for a carbon fiber car. I was hoping, no, expecting at least 400lbs. And if BMW adds a 4 banger model for the 7er, then that 300lbs looks even worse.

These electronics have to be lightened too. It doesn't matter if BMW lightens the chassis by 500lbs if they then add in 455lbs of electronic bs that no one ever uses.
bimmerjph is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2013, 04:49 AM   #102
Matski
Lieutenant
 
Matski's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 328i Sport E46 320d Tourer
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England

Posts: 567
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
That is only 300lbs (135kg) ligter. That is massively disappointing for a carbon fiber car. I was hoping, no, expecting at least 400lbs. And if BMW adds a 4 banger model for the 7er, then that 300lbs looks even worse.

These electronics have to be lightened too. It doesn't matter if BMW lightens the chassis by 500lbs if they then add in 455lbs of electronic bs that no one ever uses.
Given that the next 7-er will undoubtedly be bigger, with more gizmo's, and it will probably be safer too... even managing to keep the weight the same as the current F01 would be an achievement.. dropping it by 200kg is Fantastic.... If BMW offered an E92 M3 CSL edition that was 200kg lighter people would think it was the best thing in the world! This would pretty much be the lightest generation of 7-er since the first one (E23)! Again, if BMW did the same thing with the 3-er and got it back to the weight of the first generation (E21) weight of around 1 ton.. it would be epic (never going to happen though!)

I think you need to give them more credit.
__________________
3/15 to i8, and everything in between (yep, even including the F26 and F45)
Matski is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2013, 06:37 AM   #103
Soorena
Captain
 
Drives: M3 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Paris

Posts: 795
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
If you hope that BMWs project I fails then you want the whole of BMW to fail.
This 1 billion investment just does not cover cars , but an entire new engineering approach at BMW which has left our more resourceful competitors way behind in developing new methods of material construction and production.
Well, maybe i do hope that the whole BMW fails. This is not the BMW i know or want so why should i care? The BMW cars that i had and loved were from a different company it seems. That BMW didn't want to Toyota, or VW, that BMW instead wanted to what BMW used to be. You could feel the BMW principle in their cars, even the lesser models like the 318i E36 were different than other cars. But now this BMW wants to build FWD cars, MPV's, electric cars, heavy weight land yachts etc... and refuses to care about enthusiasts. Where is the Z4 M? Where is the M1? Why BMW isn't in F1? Why BMW doesn't support teams like Turner Motorsport or Dinan-Riley even though they help BMW keeping it sporty image?

Do you honestly think this car maker has anything in common with the company that people like Paul Rosche worked for in the past? I don't think so. BMW has lost it's principle. Badly. If this i project helped BMW from financial stand point to keep building REAL BMW cars, i would support it. But i know it's not gonna happen. So yes i hope it fails. CFRP is cool. I like to have CF parts in my car. But let's not forget the only reason that current BMW's need CF to lower their weight is because the same people who invest in CFRP project made cars fat.

You mentioned 7-Series in your post. Cool that the next one will be lighter. But look how much it's fatter than saying the E38? My Jaguar XJ weighs 1870kg. That's almost 150kg LESS than the 740i. It's funny. It's a Jag for gods sake. And it's a better driver car than the 7-Series. It's almost comical. When was the last time you saw a 5-Series having more weight more than E-Class? Let me tell you, it always was lighter than it's rival from Mercedes. Now which is heavier? The 5. Why is that? Because BMW went cheap and based the chassis on the 7-series' chassis. Why should i support BMW anymore? You tell me.

Don't get me wrong Mr. I don't have anything against you (how many people post under Scott26 username BTW?). You obviously are doing your job. But honestly i don't like it. It's cool to see BMW recognizes forums and put some people in charge for marketing. However i don't want someone from BMW ask me to change my mind because BMW wants to make more money. I'm not a share holder, and i also am not a badge whore so there is no reason for me to care about the future of BMW. The only reasons i had BMW cars in the past was because they suited me the best, but now that they don't i look for something else.

I just wish that you would report back to your supervisor and tell them about feedback you get from forums. Members here are not all the people who buy BMW's, but we sure do represent a small group of buyers, don't we?
Soorena is offline   Iran
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2013, 09:32 AM   #104
bimmerjph
Lieutenant Colonel
 
bimmerjph's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tennessee

Posts: 1,944
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski
Given that the next 7-er will undoubtedly be bigger, with more gizmo's, and it will probably be safer too... even managing to keep the weight the same as the current F01 would be an achievement.. dropping it by 200kg is Fantastic.... If BMW offered an E92 M3 CSL edition that was 200kg lighter people would think it was the best thing in the world! This would pretty much be the lightest generation of 7-er since the first one (E23)! Again, if BMW did the same thing with the 3-er and got it back to the weight of the first generation (E21) weight of around 1 ton.. it would be epic (never going to happen though!)

I think you need to give them more credit.
Yes, 300lbs (135kg) is no small feat, but one needs to look at the competition's weight as well. Assuming the next 750Li X-drive is 300lbs lighter as well, then it is only a whopping 130lbs (60kg) lighter than the comparable A8L. Thats not really much of an advantage. And the 750Li will actually be 215lbs (100kg) heavier than the Jaguar XJ Supersport. So the carbon fiber 7er won't even be lighter than an aluminum Jag.
bimmerjph is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2013, 01:22 PM   #105
Matski
Lieutenant
 
Matski's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 328i Sport E46 320d Tourer
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England

Posts: 567
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Yes, 300lbs (135kg) is no small feat, but one needs to look at the competition's weight as well. Assuming the next 750Li X-drive is 300lbs lighter as well, then it is only a whopping 130lbs (60kg) lighter than the comparable A8L. Thats not really much of an advantage. And the 750Li will actually be 215lbs (100kg) heavier than the Jaguar XJ Supersport. So the carbon fiber 7er won't even be lighter than an aluminum Jag.
Not sure about that.

I think I might have got the wrong weight for the 5-er earlier, but I did't think the Jags were that light.. so I decided to do the numbers:

From BMW.com (EU weight inc all fluids and 75kg driver and cargo):
base 5-er (520d as SCOTT mention) = 1695kg
therefore base G11 7-er (730i) = 1695kg
base F01 (730i) = 1840kg
therefore a weight saving of 145kg

If we apply that to the F01 750i (2015kg) as well, that would give a G11 750i weight 1870kg

From Jaguar.com (Kerb weights excl. 75kg driver and cargo)
XJ 3l petrol s/c = 1755kg
XJ 5l pertol s/c (510PS) = 1870kg

If we add in the 75kg Jaguar don't seem to include for driver and cargo in their figures (I can't find anywhere on Jags website what they include or don't include so I've taken the definition of kerb weight form Wiki)

XJ 3l petrol s/c = 1830kg
XJ 5l pertol s/c (510PS) = 1945kg

So,
The 730i would be 1695kg vs. 1830kg for the Jag 3.0L (BMW is 135kg lighter)
The 750i would be 1870kg vs. 1945kg for the Jag 5.0L (BMW is 75kg lighter)

I've not bother with LWB versions or 4 wheel drive to keep it simple.

Please feel free to point out any errors if I've made them, but I've just gone from what SCOTT said about base 7-er equalling 520d, the manufacturers websites, and the wiki definition of kerb weight.

If I am correct, then I would say again, it's quite impressive for a car that will be bigger and have more gizmos.

And, at the end of the day, these cars are heavy for a reason, they're big and they're packed full of luxury, probably not bought for driving dynamics, so I'm more interested to know what the G? generation 3 er might weigh!

edit: Yes, thinking about it.. BMW are bound to introduce something like a 728i woth the 4 pot Turbo in it.

Since the most similar cars I can think of that have engines of the same type are the 530d and 730d... to work back to a 728i I did this:

The F10 528i is 85kg lighter than the F10 530d.. so if a theoretical F01 728i was also 85kg lighter than the F01 730d (1915kg), it's base weight would be 1830kg.. only 10kg lighter than the F01 730i is already... so even IF the entry level 7-er SCOTT was talking about was actually a 4 pot 728i, the weight saving from the engine alone would only be 10kg... meaning that the vast majority of weight loss still came from the chassis, not just downsizing the engine form 6 to 4...

... again I could be wrong!
__________________
3/15 to i8, and everything in between (yep, even including the F26 and F45)

Last edited by Matski; 07-03-2013 at 02:01 PM.
Matski is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2013, 02:36 PM   #106
ottoblotto
///M-Flight Bavaria
 
ottoblotto's Avatar
 
Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Im around

Posts: 1,188
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2010 BMW X5  [0.00]
2011.75 BMW M3 E90  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
Well, maybe i do hope that the whole BMW fails. This is not the BMW i know or want so why should i care? The BMW cars that i had and loved were from a different company it seems. That BMW didn't want to Toyota, or VW, that BMW instead wanted to what BMW used to be. You could feel the BMW principle in their cars, even the lesser models like the 318i E36 were different than other cars. But now this BMW wants to build FWD cars, MPV's, electric cars, heavy weight land yachts etc... and refuses to care about enthusiasts. Where is the Z4 M? Where is the M1? Why BMW isn't in F1? Why BMW doesn't support teams like Turner Motorsport or Dinan-Riley even though they help BMW keeping it sporty image?

Do you honestly think this car maker has anything in common with the company that people like Paul Rosche worked for in the past? I don't think so. BMW has lost it's principle. Badly. If this i project helped BMW from financial stand point to keep building REAL BMW cars, i would support it. But i know it's not gonna happen. So yes i hope it fails. CFRP is cool. I like to have CF parts in my car. But let's not forget the only reason that current BMW's need CF to lower their weight is because the same people who invest in CFRP project made cars fat.

You mentioned 7-Series in your post. Cool that the next one will be lighter. But look how much it's fatter than saying the E38? My Jaguar XJ weighs 1870kg. That's almost 150kg LESS than the 740i. It's funny. It's a Jag for gods sake. And it's a better driver car than the 7-Series. It's almost comical. When was the last time you saw a 5-Series having more weight more than E-Class? Let me tell you, it always was lighter than it's rival from Mercedes. Now which is heavier? The 5. Why is that? Because BMW went cheap and based the chassis on the 7-series' chassis. Why should i support BMW anymore? You tell me.

Don't get me wrong Mr. I don't have anything against you (how many people post under Scott26 username BTW?). You obviously are doing your job. But honestly i don't like it. It's cool to see BMW recognizes forums and put some people in charge for marketing. However i don't want someone from BMW ask me to change my mind because BMW wants to make more money. I'm not a share holder, and i also am not a badge whore so there is no reason for me to care about the future of BMW. The only reasons i had BMW cars in the past was because they suited me the best, but now that they don't i look for something else.

I just wish that you would report back to your supervisor and tell them about feedback you get from forums. Members here are not all the people who buy BMW's, but we sure do represent a small group of buyers, don't we?
This expresses everything I have thought of this new project. Thank you Soorena and listen up BMW: Your cars have lost their way.
__________________
"With great power comes great responsibility." -El-Superbeasto
ottoblotto is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2013, 02:45 PM   #107
bimmerjph
Lieutenant Colonel
 
bimmerjph's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tennessee

Posts: 1,944
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
Not sure about that.

I think I might have got the wrong weight for the 5-er earlier, but I did't think the Jags were that light.. so I decided to do the numbers:

From BMW.com (EU weight inc all fluids and 75kg driver and cargo):
base 5-er (520d as SCOTT mention) = 1695kg
therefore base G11 7-er (730i) = 1695kg
base F01 (730i) = 1840kg
therefore a weight saving of 145kg

If we apply that to the F01 750i (2015kg) as well, that would give a G11 750i weight 1870kg

From Jaguar.com (Kerb weights excl. 75kg driver and cargo)
XJ 3l petrol s/c = 1755kg
XJ 5l pertol s/c (510PS) = 1870kg

If we add in the 75kg Jaguar don't seem to include for driver and cargo in their figures (I can't find anywhere on Jags website what they include or don't include so I've taken the definition of kerb weight form Wiki)

XJ 3l petrol s/c = 1830kg
XJ 5l pertol s/c (510PS) = 1945kg

So,
The 730i would be 1695kg vs. 1830kg for the Jag 3.0L (BMW is 135kg lighter)
The 750i would be 1870kg vs. 1945kg for the Jag 5.0L (BMW is 75kg lighter)

I've not bother with LWB versions or 4 wheel drive to keep it simple.

Please feel free to point out any errors if I've made them, but I've just gone from what SCOTT said about base 7-er equalling 520d, the manufacturers websites, and the wiki definition of kerb weight.

If I am correct, then I would say again, it's quite impressive for a car that will be bigger and have more gizmos.

And, at the end of the day, these cars are heavy for a reason, they're big and they're packed full of luxury, probably not bought for driving dynamics, so I'm more interested to know what the G? generation 3 er might weigh!

edit: Yes, thinking about it.. BMW are bound to introduce something like a 728i woth the 4 pot Turbo in it.

Since the most similar cars I can think of that have engines of the same type are the 530d and 730d... to work back to a 728i I did this:

The F10 528i is 85kg lighter than the F10 530d.. so if a theoretical F01 728i was also 85kg lighter than the F01 730d (1915kg), it's base weight would be 1830kg.. only 10kg lighter than the F01 730i is already... so even IF the entry level 7-er SCOTT was talking about was actually a 4 pot 728i, the weight saving from the engine alone would only be 10kg... meaning that the vast majority of weight loss still came from the chassis, not just downsizing the engine form 6 to 4...

... again I could be wrong!
Yeah, this is all speculative.

Okay, so for clarification, the weights listed on BMW.com include a 75kg driver? If so its not as bad as I thought, although I still would have liked more. As I said earlier, it doesn't matter if you reduce the chassis weight by hundreds of kilograms if you then turn around and put in hundreds of kilograms of electronics.

As for the listed weights, I just went off of bmwusa.com, bmw.com, jaguar.com, audiusa.com
bimmerjph is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2013, 03:09 PM   #108
Matski
Lieutenant
 
Matski's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 328i Sport E46 320d Tourer
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England

Posts: 567
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Yeah, this is all speculative.

Okay, so for clarification, the weights listed on BMW.com include a 75kg driver? If so its not as bad as I thought, although I still would have liked more. As I said earlier, it doesn't matter if you reduce the chassis weight by hundreds of kilograms if you then turn around and put in hundreds of kilograms of electronics.

As for the listed weights, I just went off of bmwusa.com, bmw.com, jaguar.com, audiusa.com
EU unladen weight that BMW use is Kerb weight plus 68kg driver + 7kg baggage. Jag just show kerb weight, which is apparently the car, plus fuel, plus fluids, but doesn't include driver or baggage.

You are right about the electonics thing, and BMW showed with the M3 CRT, that they'd happily negate the weight savings by adding luxuries... which was stupid... however, especially at the 7 series end of the market... it's the market that dictates the need for gadgets, toys, luxuries etc... so the engineers hard work will always be countered by this.

I wonder... if BMW offered a 5 series that had no Air-con, no nav, no power windows, no electric seats, no iDrive, 4 speaker stereos, no air-bags, worse crash protection, and less space, and featured an engine only 14hp more powerful than the i3.... how many they'd sell? Because the best 5 series I've ever driven featured all of those things... it was an E28! BUT the market changes... BMW could never sell a 5 series that was all of those things because everyone would buy heavier Audi's, Merc's, Jag's, Lexus's etc... because they like their comforts and their toys.... I mean, really have you seen how much people on this forum piss and moan about headlamp bulbs? Imagine the epic complaining if they lost Nav!!!!
__________________
3/15 to i8, and everything in between (yep, even including the F26 and F45)

Last edited by Matski; 07-03-2013 at 03:26 PM.
Matski is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2013, 04:47 PM   #109
bimmerjph
Lieutenant Colonel
 
bimmerjph's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tennessee

Posts: 1,944
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
EU unladen weight that BMW use is Kerb weight plus 68kg driver + 7kg baggage. Jag just show kerb weight, which is apparently the car, plus fuel, plus fluids, but doesn't include driver or baggage.

You are right about the electonics thing, and BMW showed with the M3 CRT, that they'd happily negate the weight savings by adding luxuries... which was stupid... however, especially at the 7 series end of the market... it's the market that dictates the need for gadgets, toys, luxuries etc... so the engineers hard work will always be countered by this.
Gotcha. But yeah, that needs to be the next thing they focus on, lightening the electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
I wonder... if BMW offered a 5 series that had no Air-con, no nav, no power windows, no electric seats, no iDrive, 4 speaker stereos, no air-bags, worse crash protection, and less space, and featured an engine only 14hp more powerful than the i3.... how many they'd sell? Because the best 5 series I've ever driven featured all of those things... it was an E28! BUT the market changes... BMW could never sell a 5 series that was all of those things because everyone would buy heavier Audi's, Merc's, Jag's, Lexus's etc... because they like their comforts and their toys.... I mean, really have you seen how much people on this forum piss and moan about headlamp bulbs? Imagine the epic complaining if they lost Nav!!!!
That annoys me to no end. Especially when they then turn around and try to argue that their newer car drives better than previous BMW's. It just doesn't. I mean this trend of cars getting heavier and larger cannot go on like this forever. At some point it HAS to stop.
bimmerjph is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2013, 05:54 PM   #110
jadnashuanh
Captain
 
Drives: 535iGT x-drive; i3 BEV
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

Posts: 747
iTrader: (0)

Look at the average derriere of an 'ugly american'...it gets wider every generation (and parts of Europe are doing this as well). We also tend to grow taller from better nutrition and who knows what. So, to me at least, it makes a lot of sense that the vehicles tend to be getting larger. Now, if you were driving say a 5-series, maybe a switch to the 3-series would be called for since it may now be as big as a (much) older 5 was...you can have your cake and eat it too.

Personally, I'm in the upper 90's-percentile of height (but not weight, thank god), so bigger gives me more choices.

Now, I'm not sure why anyone would want to live in someplace like say Phoenix, AZ, but try to tell them they can't buy a car with a/c! I can see where that might be viable in rainy England, but not in most places around the civilized world (and a lot that aren't!). It's easier to design one duct system and slap that in along with an a/c system than design two different ones. Certainly, it can affect weight, but it may not affect cost as much as you think. Plus, it also would affect weight distribution, dash panel design, and moving other things around to keep the balance would be quite costly, too. There are ramifications for almost any change, some of them small, some much bigger, and then there's the cost involved.

Unless you're into a market like say a Bently where you can customize many things, you have to consider what's economically possible on the semi-mass-produced assembly line.
jadnashuanh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:25 PM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST