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      09-15-2013, 12:37 PM   #1
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Post Report: No M Versions of i Models Planned

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Report: No M Versions of i Cars Planned
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Are there any M versions of i cars in the pipeline? No, according to Cypselus von Frakenberg, BMW Group head of technology communications. Speaking at the Frankfurt IAA show, Mr. Frankenberg says that not only was there zero input from M engineers in the development of the i8, but there will be no M version in the future. In his words:

“It is separate – M and i,” he begins. “It’s two different sub-brands, but there will be no ‘M’ i-car in the future.

“These [M] are the high performance cars with combustion engines, and on the other side you have the ‘i’ cars with electric drive. They won’t come together.

“I don’t think that it would make sense to mix these two sub-brands in one car. We have the Ms, we have the i, and we have the BMW, the core brand.

“I don’t think it’s necessary. You look at the car [i8], it’s an i version. You look at the LifeDrive architecture of the car, it wouldn’t make sense to bring M to that.”


Adding to that was Carsten Pries, BMW M head of product management:


“BMW ‘i’ obviously has a different strategic focus, very much targeting into the area of sustainablility,” he adds.

“It’s two different operations, there’s no fluctuation from BMW M to BMW i or any big transfers going the other way. M engineers are among the most loyal engineers, probably the most loyal I’ve ever met.”

But in not being able to produce the futuristic, progressive i8, Pries claims those loyal M engineers were “not annoyed, [but] excited [about i8].”

The rest of the interview can be read at Caradvice.



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      09-15-2013, 01:32 PM   #2
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Yeah I know we have been told no 30 different ways. However some people would be quick to point out M SUV's, M Turbocharging, and BMW adopting FWD. So I think a lot of people will remain skeptical.

- J
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      09-15-2013, 01:43 PM   #3
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You know what they say...

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      09-15-2013, 02:04 PM   #4
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"There will be no 'M' i-Car in the future." - Obviously not if a car like the i8 is meant to compete directly against the best M supercar ever produced.

I don't know anything about how BMW works internally, but does some big wig at BMW want the rise of a new division and the slow death of a great one?

The new i division is obviously working in its own information silo, feeling they have no need to consult the M division on anything they do. I bet great things would come out if they collaborated together.
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      09-15-2013, 02:19 PM   #5
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Well I say never. Because as I have countlessly mentioned there is no space for a V8 or whatever else needed such as a new DCT transmission.

The i8 will remain as it is. And at it is current status the i8 is very fast and agile , a true sports car albeit a progressive one. To add any conventional ideas to the i8 defeats the purpose of the i8 and its intentions of a sports car in a Brave New World.

That's not to say that ideas are on the table on how they can use the i8s genes for something else.
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      09-15-2013, 02:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Well I say never. Because as I have countlessly mentioned there is no space for a V8 or whatever else needed such as a new DCT transmission.

The i8 will remain as it is. And at it is current status the i8 is very fast and agile , a true sports car albeit a progressive one. To add any conventional ideas to the i8 defeats the purpose of the i8 and its intentions of a sports car in a Brave New World.

That's not to say that ideas are on the table on how they can use the i8s genes for something else.
You have the i8.

You can modify it to an infinite extent. More torque, more power (electric), suspension, there are countless ways of making a car more performance-oriented without adding power.

Examples being the new Subie BR-Z tS and all of BMW's M-Sport models. There are so many ways to modify the i8...

The i8 has the capability to be made into a perfect track machine. Target it at people who would have been willing to buy a cheaper 918/LaFerrari, use electric power in conjuction with a more powerful combustion engine (still small) and...well, there's a lot of things that can be done. The Porsche GT3's aren't really a huge leap in terms of power, it's the weight reduction, the stripped interior, and the handling that makes it great.
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      09-15-2013, 03:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake C
Yeah I know we have been told no 30 different ways. However some people would be quick to point out M SUV's, M Turbocharging, and BMW adopting FWD. So I think a lot of people will remain skeptical.

- J
+1

Very true. This is BS. Just because they are individual sub-brands with different goals and purposes doesn't mean they can't work together. M needs i. I mean... the M5 is a porker, and not the only one.
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      09-15-2013, 03:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Well I say never. Because as I have countlessly mentioned there is no space for a V8 or whatever else needed such as a new DCT transmission.
Not all of us are asking for a V8. Would a V6 derived from the B38 fit? At the very least, the i8 should have the S20 like the M2 is rumored to have.
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      09-15-2013, 03:53 PM   #9
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There will never be a front wheel drive BMW.
There will never be an M version of an X model.
There will not be an M sport version of the luxury-oriented 5GT.
There will never be an M badged diesel.
BMW don't do electric assisted power steering
M cars are manual only.


Never say never. Ask BMW.
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      09-15-2013, 03:58 PM   #10
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Fair enough. I just hope to see technology from the i division brought over to the M division (read extensive use of CFRP)
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      09-15-2013, 04:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake C View Post
Yeah I know we have been told no 30 different ways. However some people would be quick to point out M SUV's, M Turbocharging, and BMW adopting FWD. So I think a lot of people will remain skeptical.

- J

Aaaaah. Thank you! I feel much better now.
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      09-15-2013, 04:43 PM   #12
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Blah...blah...blah.

BMW has proven say one thing and do another.
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      09-15-2013, 04:44 PM   #13
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The fact we never quite know what's coming next is what is exciting about BMW and probably why we all post on here.

If it were Audi all you have to do is imagine it slightly bigger with a heavier nose and more under steer and that's your next model.. I'm being very flippant but you get the idea.

I kind of like not really knowing (or rather speculating) whether we'll get an M2 or an M10 or a Tri Turbo diesel 3 series etc. if we knew that now would we be as chatty about it?
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      09-15-2013, 05:11 PM   #14
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The separation of M and i makes sense to me. Each brand is narrowly focused and at different kinds of drivers. We may eventually see a light hybrid BMW that also becomes available as an M car, but that will take a major advance in battery technology.
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      09-15-2013, 05:24 PM   #15
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      09-15-2013, 05:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpokenHands View Post
There will never be a front wheel drive BMW.
There will never be an M version of an X model.
There will not be an M sport version of the luxury-oriented 5GT.
There will never be an M badged diesel.
BMW don't do electric assisted power steering
M cars are manual only.


Never say never. Ask BMW.
Unfortunately the ever changing aspects of the industry forced us to accept no more dogmas as legislation and customer reaction has lead to a progressive global market. You either progress? Which for BMW , independence is the overall strategy or you become part of a committee which defines your strategy only if your sister brands can have it.

Dogma 1.
There will never be a front wheel drive BMW.

The global market has shown a paradigm shift towards the compact premium car which has led to upmarket premium cars impact heavily on volume manufacturers. MINI was the first premium compact car which led to imitators releasing their variation of a successful premium compact car.

Premium compact cars are also the defining factor in growth for the entire industry this decade , premium compact cars are very much in demand and of course essential to meet legislation being imposed on the industry.
To be in the compact market you have to compete and in regards to that one of the most required aspects is space.

The launch of the production variant of the BMW Active Tourer in a little over five months. Will make use of its FWD credentials to promote space and flexibility in a dynamic concept that will be the most exceptional car to drive in its segment yet offer customers and importantly new customers , space , dynasm and flexibility in an entirely new concept for BMW.

In regards to enthusiasts who reckon we pissed in their church. There was a negative response initially but on the BMW.com website we have a registration request on the Active Tourer that has been requested by over 200,000 users. If we can transfer that or even half of that into sales within a projected period then we will have a successful new line for BMW and a new market.

The arrival on the FWD will be known as we have about electric mobility.
We intend to change the whole definition of a front wheel driven car. The BMW FWD concepts are being interpreted as game changers for the segment.
The new FWD concepts will be aligned with MINI for better economies of scale. It will also allow MINI to become entirely profitable.

Dogma 2.
There will never be an M version of an X model.


The market changed , opened up new territories and a new customer dynamic.
The SUV market continues to grow as does the performance SUV market.
Luxury SUVs are impacting on luxury sedan sales and manufacturers are accepting demand in all segments. Performance SAVs under the BMW X5M and BMW X6M are considered volume sellers because in key important markets they are the best selling M Vehicles, and they continue to sell.
More SAVs and Performance SAVs under BMW M. And BMW M. Performance are coming.

Dogma 3.
There will not be an M sport version of the luxury-oriented 5GT.

M Sport packet is now essential for each new production model. As some customers like the look of the M Sport packet to enhance the image of their car.

Dogma 4.
There will never be an M badged diesel.

The M.Performance brand was created due to the demands of M customers particularly in Europe. Many countries have different legislation in regards to emissions , leading to more money required in taxes.

The M. Performance brand allows the M brand to continue in the pursuit of high performance cars that embode individual features and technology whilst M Performance caters for the requirements considered taboo for BMW M.
Such as diesel and XDrive.

The M50d models embodie everything characteristic about M. Individuality , Performance and Precision. The M550d is an excellent car and the Tri-Turbo engine is a feat of BMWs engineering prowess.
We will see further M Performance cars starting with the BMW M235i which will be a bigger icon for the brand than the M135i.

The next generation of BMW M cars starting with the new M3 and M4 will see a revolution in regards to weight reduction allowing each brand considerable breathing space to promote their individual performance credentials.

Dogma 5.
BMW don't do electric assisted power steering

Electric power assisted steering is a feature of BMW EfficientDynamics.
Every BMW is conceived to feature EfficientDynamics technology in regards to BMW meeting its required targets - something that is well on course ahead of their core competitors.

Of course like many implementation of new technology there is also a period of progress , the new BMW 5er for example shows progress but it is a constant to continue to progress and there are some upcoming new models that will show a 360 degree shift on what you normally expect a BMW with electrically assisted steering should drive like.

Dogma 6.
M cars are manual only

Again we can look at the changing demographics of the market but also in the progress of drivetrain technology. BMW M is an innovator it has developed areas our competitors cannot tread and utilises technology designed for Motorsport purpose on the road.

Each aspect is perfectly tailored to suit each individual model. An M car is special because it starts off with the key component. An excellent road car chassis and then they work on that to develop each element from gearshift to steering to dynamics etc. new technology such as the M DCT are more suited to cars like the M5 and M6 because of their status in the luxury market. Smaller M cars are more enthusiast driven so there is more need for more communication from the driver to the car.

But in recent years we have begun to see the demise of the manual. Sales of vehicles especially BMWs with manual transmissions are in decline and we are at an interesting phase to see if they will eventually die out. The only thing that can prevent that is for customers to continue to buy cars with manual transmission.

For BMW M. It understands that the purest form of performance driving lies with a manual transmission which is why the upcoming BMW M3 and BMW M4 will be offered with a manual transmission as will the next generation BMW M2 Coupe.
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      09-15-2013, 05:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Well I say never. Because as I have countlessly mentioned there is no space for a V8 or whatever else needed such as a new DCT transmission.

The i8 will remain as it is. And at it is current status the i8 is very fast and agile , a true sports car albeit a progressive one. To add any conventional ideas to the i8 defeats the purpose of the i8 and its intentions of a sports car in a Brave New World.

That's not to say that ideas are on the table on how they can use the i8s genes for something else.
Interesting last comment from scott26 ......
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      09-15-2013, 05:40 PM   #18
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We intend to change the whole definition of a front wheel driven car. The BMW FWD concepts are being interpreted as game changers for the segment.
Yeah... get back to me when you can make a FWD car have power oversteer.
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      09-15-2013, 05:49 PM   #19
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- BMW Active Hybrid
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- BMW xDRIVE

BMWi

BMW M.
- BMW M Performance.

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      09-15-2013, 05:49 PM   #20
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I don't want a M version of the i8

I want to see an aventador competitor something more track focused; sure throw a hybrid/kers/electric boost version at a higher price

I know BMW has sweet cars at attainable price points but I would like to see more halo-like cars something like an r8 competitor, or something that can smoke a 911 turbo s.... Something very exotic or something that showcases what the engineers can really do

I want engineering prowess
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      09-15-2013, 05:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Dogma 2.
There will never be an M version of an X model.

The market changed , opened up new territories and a new customer dynamic.
The SUV market continues to grow as does the performance SUV market.
Luxury SUVs are impacting on luxury sedan sales and manufacturers are accepting demand in all segments. Performance SAVs under the BMW X5M and BMW X6M are considered volume sellers because in key important markets they are the best selling M Vehicles, and they continue to sell.
More SAVs and Performance SAVs under BMW M. And BMW M. Performance are coming.
X1M? X3M? X4M? Awesome!
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      09-15-2013, 06:22 PM   #22
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How does it matter? The M badge has been whored out so much lately! They'll probably have an i8 MSport package and put an M badge all over it for more sales. :-/
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