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      04-13-2018, 10:34 AM   #1
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BMW is considering killing the i3 and i8 programs

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I've read this from multiple source over the past few months.
Here is another one:
https://electrek.co/2018/04/02/bmw-k...3-i8-programs/
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      04-14-2018, 12:58 PM   #2
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I don't see this news as a threat or a big deal really.

The i3 was/is a concept car that you could actually buy. It was a tech test or several items and manufacturing processes; in the end, it worked.

The i3 shows that electric cars can work and be luxurious, yet practical for those of us in big cites with short to medium commutes.

It's light weight, quick, small on the outside, yet roomy. The exterior looks different, but isn't Prius or Leaf ugly. The interior is airy, forward thinking, and cool.

The i3 will pave the way for BMW electric cars over the next 20 years. So, think of the i3 as a pioneer car.

I personally feel part of the start of something great and I hope all i3 and i3s owners will feel this way as well.
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      04-14-2018, 07:01 PM   #3
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I really love the form factor and light weight of the i3. I can honestly say an electric X1, X2, or X3 will not be a satisfactory replacement.
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      04-15-2018, 11:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I really love the form factor and light weight of the i3. I can honestly say an electric X1, X2, or X3 will not be a satisfactory replacement.
Indeed.
If you saw the previews of i5, you'll quickly surmise that BMW has major Model S envy, and is focused on building a Model S competitor.
That would have been fine, but doing so at the expense of i3 form factor is a terminal turn-off for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
The i3 shows that electric cars can work and be luxurious, yet practical for those of us in big cites with short to medium commutes.

[...]The i3 will pave the way for BMW electric cars over the next 20 years. So, think of the i3 as a pioneer car.

I personally feel part of the start of something great and I hope all i3 and i3s owners will feel this way as well.
Everyone already knew what EVs were good for when i3 was launched, so I don't think BMW contributed anything to EV evangelism.
i8 did add sexiness to EV market, but not the i3.
BMW did throw a huge multi-billion bone to Quandt family's carbon-fiber manufacturing business, but otherwise, i3/i8 experiment was a near total write-off for BMW.

CF manufacturing approach did not scale.
BMW learned nothing about battery tech by outsourcing that to Samsung, and getting stuck waiting for Samsung's to ramp up LiIon density.
BMW did learn how to build EV motors in-house, and is now throwing those into 'hybrids' across its entire production line.
That's, at least, is something, but I have zero interest in over-priced ($10+K) hybrid options with 10-15 mile EV range.

And then there is the i5 SUV/cross-over prototype, that makes 5-series look small, nimble and elegant.
*sigh*.

Luckily, EV market had zoomed way past BMW's offerings, while Bavarians were napping, and is now full of attractively styled and priced alternatives.

I am almost certain my current (second) i3 will also be the last.

a
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      04-16-2018, 02:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I really love the form factor and light weight of the i3. I can honestly say an electric X1, X2, or X3 will not be a satisfactory replacement.
Indeed.
If you saw the previews of i5, you'll quickly surmise that BMW has major Model S envy, and is focused on building a Model S competitor.
That would have been fine, but doing so at the expense of i3 for factor, is a terminal turn-off for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
The i3 shows that electric cars can work and be luxurious, yet practical for those of us in big cites with short to medium commutes.

[...]The i3 will pave the way for BMW electric cars over the next 20 years. So, think of the i3 as a pioneer car.

I personally feel part of the start of something great and I hope all i3 and i3s owners will feel this way as well.
Everyone already knew what EVs were good for when i3 was launched, so I don't think BMW contributed anything to EV evangelism.
i8 did add sexiness to EV market, but not the i3.
BMW did throw a huge multi-billion bone to Quandt family's carbon-fiber manufacturing business, but otherwise, i3/i8 experiment was a near total write-off for BMW.

CF manufacturing approach did not scale.
BMW learned nothing about battery tech by outsourcing that to Samsung, and getting stuck waiting for Samsung's to ramp up LiIon density.
BMW did learn how to build EV motors in-house, and is now throwing those into 'hybrids' across its entire production line.
That's, at least, is something, but I have zero interest in over-priced ($10+K) hybrid options with 10-15 mile EV range.

And then there is the i5 SUV/cross-over prototype, that makes 5-series look small, nimble and elegant.
*sigh*.

Luckily, EV market had zoomed way past BMW's offerings, while Bavarians were napping, and is now full of attractively styled and priced alternatives.

I am almost certain my current (second) i3 will also be the last.

a
Think you may be shutting the door early on the CF manufacturing ramp up and integration.

Overall, I do understand the merits of many of your points.

I too, as do most others feel that the battery development has not kept pace with market, but that may show more of BMWs stubbornness in trying to market the i3 as a city car. Think in their limited scope of thought, they saw the i3 as a 7 series or ///M5 owner's second car as in a household with 3 cars for 2 drivers. Silly, but I think they convinced themselves that this was a real thing. Strangely, I fit into this category as the owner of a 911 and an X5 that the wife drives.

To BMW, they saw the i3 as a half cost Model S for half the usability of that car so to speak.

The car now has a faithful cult following, so now they've just continued for a few more years
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      04-16-2018, 05:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I really love the form factor and light weight of the i3. I can honestly say an electric X1, X2, or X3 will not be a satisfactory replacement.
Indeed.
If you saw the previews of i5, you'll quickly surmise that BMW has major Model S envy, and is focused on building a Model S competitor.
That would have been fine, but doing so at the expense of i3 for factor, is a terminal turn-off for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
The i3 shows that electric cars can work and be luxurious, yet practical for those of us in big cites with short to medium commutes.

[...]The i3 will pave the way for BMW electric cars over the next 20 years. So, think of the i3 as a pioneer car.

I personally feel part of the start of something great and I hope all i3 and i3s owners will feel this way as well.
Everyone already knew what EVs were good for when i3 was launched, so I don't think BMW contributed anything to EV evangelism.
i8 did add sexiness to EV market, but not the i3.
BMW did throw a huge multi-billion bone to Quandt family's carbon-fiber manufacturing business, but otherwise, i3/i8 experiment was a near total write-off for BMW.

CF manufacturing approach did not scale.
BMW learned nothing about battery tech by outsourcing that to Samsung, and getting stuck waiting for Samsung's to ramp up LiIon density.
BMW did learn how to build EV motors in-house, and is now throwing those into 'hybrids' across its entire production line.
That's, at least, is something, but I have zero interest in over-priced ($10+K) hybrid options with 10-15 mile EV range.

And then there is the i5 SUV/cross-over prototype, that makes 5-series look small, nimble and elegant.
*sigh*.

Luckily, EV market had zoomed way past BMW's offerings, while Bavarians were napping, and is now full of attractively styled and priced alternatives.

I am almost certain my current (second) i3 will also be the last.

a
Think you may be shutting the door early on the CF manufacturing ramp up and integration.

Overall, I do understand the merits of many of your points.

I too, as do most others feel that the battery development has not kept pace with market, but that may show more of BMWs stubbornness in trying to market the i3 as a city car. Think in their limited scope of thought, they saw the i3 as a 7 series or ///M5 owner's second car as in a household with 3 cars for 2 drivers. Silly, but I think they convinced themselves that this was a real thing. Strangely, I fit into this category as the owner of a 911 and an X5 that the wife drives.

To BMW, they saw the i3 as a half cost Model S for half the usability of that car so to speak.

The car now has a faithful cult following, so now they've just continued for a few more years
The i3 is one of 4 cars in our two driver household. It also gets he most use doubling as my commuter car, and around the town family hauler. However, as much as I enjoy sitting in an i3 exponentially more than a Bolt, Volt, Leaf etc, not too many people are looking for a $40-50k electric car that's more about a niche style execution rather than range.
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      04-16-2018, 06:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I really love the form factor and light weight of the i3. I can honestly say an electric X1, X2, or X3 will not be a satisfactory replacement.
Indeed.
If you saw the previews of i5, you'll quickly surmise that BMW has major Model S envy, and is focused on building a Model S competitor.
That would have been fine, but doing so at the expense of i3 for factor, is a terminal turn-off for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
The i3 shows that electric cars can work and be luxurious, yet practical for those of us in big cites with short to medium commutes.

[...]The i3 will pave the way for BMW electric cars over the next 20 years. So, think of the i3 as a pioneer car.

I personally feel part of the start of something great and I hope all i3 and i3s owners will feel this way as well.
Everyone already knew what EVs were good for when i3 was launched, so I don't think BMW contributed anything to EV evangelism.
i8 did add sexiness to EV market, but not the i3.
BMW did throw a huge multi-billion bone to Quandt family's carbon-fiber manufacturing business, but otherwise, i3/i8 experiment was a near total write-off for BMW.

CF manufacturing approach did not scale.
BMW learned nothing about battery tech by outsourcing that to Samsung, and getting stuck waiting for Samsung's to ramp up LiIon density.
BMW did learn how to build EV motors in-house, and is now throwing those into 'hybrids' across its entire production line.
That's, at least, is something, but I have zero interest in over-priced ($10+K) hybrid options with 10-15 mile EV range.

And then there is the i5 SUV/cross-over prototype, that makes 5-series look small, nimble and elegant.
*sigh*.

Luckily, EV market had zoomed way past BMW's offerings, while Bavarians were napping, and is now full of attractively styled and priced alternatives.

I am almost certain my current (second) i3 will also be the last.

a
Think you may be shutting the door early on the CF manufacturing ramp up and integration.

Overall, I do understand the merits of many of your points.

I too, as do most others feel that the battery development has not kept pace with market, but that may show more of BMWs stubbornness in trying to market the i3 as a city car. Think in their limited scope of thought, they saw the i3 as a 7 series or ///M5 owner's second car as in a household with 3 cars for 2 drivers. Silly, but I think they convinced themselves that this was a real thing. Strangely, I fit into this category as the owner of a 911 and an X5 that the wife drives.

To BMW, they saw the i3 as a half cost Model S for half the usability of that car so to speak.

The car now has a faithful cult following, so now they've just continued for a few more years
The i3 is one of 4 cars in our two driver household. It also gets he most use doubling as my commuter car, and around the town family hauler. However, as much as I enjoy sitting in an i3 exponentially more than a Bolt, Volt, Leaf etc, not too many people are looking for a $40-50k electric car that's more about a niche style execution rather than range.
You're right on that point of range, but what do "most" people know, really?

Most people drive FWD cars and crappy SUVs from Kia or Tahoes. I don't take much stock in the opinions or rationalizations of most people.

Fact is, the i3 is a forward thinking technology marvel minus the battery, and is a road worthy concept car make of carbon fiber.

The construction alone, RWD, and overall quality make it worth the price. Plus, you're not paying full sticker anyway. Mine was about $15K off MSRP.
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      04-16-2018, 07:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I really love the form factor and light weight of the i3. I can honestly say an electric X1, X2, or X3 will not be a satisfactory replacement.
Indeed.
If you saw the previews of i5, you'll quickly surmise that BMW has major Model S envy, and is focused on building a Model S competitor.
That would have been fine, but doing so at the expense of i3 for factor, is a terminal turn-off for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
The i3 shows that electric cars can work and be luxurious, yet practical for those of us in big cites with short to medium commutes.

[...]The i3 will pave the way for BMW electric cars over the next 20 years. So, think of the i3 as a pioneer car.

I personally feel part of the start of something great and I hope all i3 and i3s owners will feel this way as well.
Everyone already knew what EVs were good for when i3 was launched, so I don't think BMW contributed anything to EV evangelism.
i8 did add sexiness to EV market, but not the i3.
BMW did throw a huge multi-billion bone to Quandt family's carbon-fiber manufacturing business, but otherwise, i3/i8 experiment was a near total write-off for BMW.

CF manufacturing approach did not scale.
BMW learned nothing about battery tech by outsourcing that to Samsung, and getting stuck waiting for Samsung's to ramp up LiIon density.
BMW did learn how to build EV motors in-house, and is now throwing those into 'hybrids' across its entire production line.
That's, at least, is something, but I have zero interest in over-priced ($10+K) hybrid options with 10-15 mile EV range.

And then there is the i5 SUV/cross-over prototype, that makes 5-series look small, nimble and elegant.
*sigh*.

Luckily, EV market had zoomed way past BMW's offerings, while Bavarians were napping, and is now full of attractively styled and priced alternatives.

I am almost certain my current (second) i3 will also be the last.

a
Think you may be shutting the door early on the CF manufacturing ramp up and integration.

Overall, I do understand the merits of many of your points.

I too, as do most others feel that the battery development has not kept pace with market, but that may show more of BMWs stubbornness in trying to market the i3 as a city car. Think in their limited scope of thought, they saw the i3 as a 7 series or ///M5 owner's second car as in a household with 3 cars for 2 drivers. Silly, but I think they convinced themselves that this was a real thing. Strangely, I fit into this category as the owner of a 911 and an X5 that the wife drives.

To BMW, they saw the i3 as a half cost Model S for half the usability of that car so to speak.

The car now has a faithful cult following, so now they've just continued for a few more years
The i3 is one of 4 cars in our two driver household. It also gets he most use doubling as my commuter car, and around the town family hauler. However, as much as I enjoy sitting in an i3 exponentially more than a Bolt, Volt, Leaf etc, not too many people are looking for a $40-50k electric car that's more about a niche style execution rather than range.
You're right on that point of range, but what do "most" people know, really?

Most people drive FWD cars and crappy SUVs from Kia or Tahoes. I don't take much stock in the opinions or rationalizations of most people.

Fact is, the i3 is a forward thinking technology marvel minus the battery, and is a road worthy concept car make of carbon fiber.

The construction alone, RWD, and overall quality make it worth the price. Plus, you're not paying full sticker anyway. Mine was about $15K off MSRP.
Agreed. At $15k off, you are in Bolt territory. What the i3 sacrifices in range it makes up for the overall driving experience. Imagine if the battery had even just 50 more miles of range? What a car!
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