View Single Post
      10-22-2014, 04:30 PM   #54

Drives: 2011 Toyota 4Runner Trail
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Upstate NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
I have numbers, you have rhetoric. As a scientist, I prefer numbers.
Please note that in my responses to your earlier posts, I asked for specific data to prove your opinions such as CATO's study being "subjective crap" and Italy's public option offering "more for less." I also asked for data which proves your claim that a significant number of Americans travel overseas for better medical care.

Much of your response on these isssues has consisted of rhetoric and dismissive insults or you simply refuse to answer my inquiries.

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post

The numbers below can be obtained from many sources. Note that the differences are HUGE, well beyond quibbles about methodology. This isn't even remotely close.

Life Expectancy. Italy 82.4. US 78.6

Infant mortality per 1000 live births. Italy 3.3 US 6.17

Doctors per 100000 people. Italy 4.2 US 2.3

Which means you get in to see your doctor when necessary far faster.

Health care cost per capita. Italy $3100 US $8500
No one disputes those numbers. I acknowledge them as they are either because America does under perform Europe in some of those areas or because there are mitigating factors:
- differences in methodologies and pre-term birth rates for infant mortality rates (reference my CDC link for the infant mortality rate).

- where was your data which showed that Italians have a shorter wait time??? Having more hospital beds or doctors doesn't prove that.

-We've addressed, in fact you acknowledged yourself that Americans in general spend more of their GDP on health costs, in many cases on unnecessary procedures. Spending more money on health care, in and of itself is not necessarily and indicator that the American health system is weaker than everyone else's.

I also showed to you that there are certain diseases where Americans have a higher survival rate relative to Europeans:

Yet for some reason, you don't seem interested in addressing those numbers.

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
Note that the above are broad measures. You can search and find individual diseases where we do better, by cherry picking the data. Another no no for scientists.
Well hold on there...why is it okay to bring up infant mortality rates and doctors per capita, but not survival rates for certain diseases? Why is one piece of information "cherry-picking" but other pieces are to be considered hard proof that our health system is inferior?

This seems like a lopsided standard to me.

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
Feel free to carry on with right wing rhetoric from sources like Fauxnews, the CATO institute, etc etc. I'll respond only to hard data on broad measures from unbiased sources.
Is the CDC right-wing?

how about NCPA?

The more I see your post, the more I realize that its not about who's right or left or independent...all that matters to you is that policy papers and groups and think-tanks conform to your world views in order to be credible.

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
To get back to the thread. 50,000 Americans will die from the flu this year. Many preventable if we had health care insurance for all, as does pretty much every other Western democracy. None have died from Ebola. Which problem actually deserves our attention? Yet unscrupulous journalists and politicians continue to fan the flames of fear. These are the same people who oppose health care insurance for all. How they live with themselves is beyond me.
I highly doubt Ebola will become a country-wide epidemic. I agree that there are other medical issues that are more pressing in the near term and long. I also agree that there are many political pundits and leaders who are using the Ebola crisis as political ammo against their enemies. Such is American politics, and you have your head in the sand if you think Conservatives are the only ones who do this kind of stuff.

MSNBC, amongst others, are just as guilty as Fox of doing this kind of stuff.

What I won't sign off on is allowing virus-infected people to fly into our country, no questions asked. If this administration, the President and CDC included, had been on its toes, we could have nipped this problem in the butt before it became such a crisis. Even if Europe wasn't on board, banning or at least restricting flights from certain African countries, while not foolproof would have been a reasonable precaution...but that didn't happen.

This kind of negligence is simply indicative of the current administration's decision-making skills and leadership, or lackthereof, when it comes to handling crises.

Last edited by Dalko43; 10-22-2014 at 06:21 PM..