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      10-26-2014, 01:29 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
I'll be very brief. This has gotten tiresome. I have numbers, you have rhetoric. As a scientist, I prefer numbers. The numbers below can be obtained from many sources. Note that the differences are HUGE, well beyond quibbles about methodology. This isn't even remotely close.

Life Expectancy. Italy 82.4. US 78.6

Infant mortality per 1000 live births. Italy 3.3 US 6.17

Doctors per 100000 people. Italy 4.2 US 2.3

Which means you get in to see your doctor when necessary far faster.

Health care cost per capita. Italy $3100 US $8500.

Better health care at less than 50% of the cost. Not remotely close. Even if Italy's care was only as good as ours (and you surely can't prove it's worse), their system would still be far better. And Italy is just one example of many Western democracies, chosen because it's hardly better government at work here.

Note that the above are broad measures. Individual disease data is naturally scattered. So you can search and find individual diseases where we do better, by cherry picking the data. Another no no for scientists.

Feel free to carry on with right wing rhetoric from sources like Fauxnews, the CATO institute, etc etc. I'll respond only to hard data on broad measures from unbiased sources.

To get back to the thread. 50,000 Americans will die from the flu this year. Many preventable if we had health care insurance for all, as does pretty much every other Western democracy. None have died from Ebola. Which problem actually deserves our attention? Yet unscrupulous journalists and politicians continue to fan the flames of fear. These are the same people who oppose health care insurance for all. How they live with themselves is beyond me.

Thank you. Now you see why I put one of the rhetoricians on my ignore list....The Karl Rove style of political discourse doesn't require facts cogent arguments; it only calls for sound bites that sound good, or that sound at least inflammatory/fear-causing/dire enough to force one's opposition to take a defensive posture to refute one's specious claims/accusations.

That sort of thing plays well among folks who aren't well versed in economics, finance and/or a very specific set of circumstances, the latter being the case with the Ebola outbreaks.

All the best.

'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed