View Single Post
      02-26-2020, 12:28 PM   #3318
Major General
jmg's Avatar

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Tesla, like GM, is TBTF. It will exist for as long as the State allows it too.
And Ford. And GM. And Chrysler. Or 2009's cash for clunkers - auto dealers got $4500 directly from the Federal Government for selling a new car

View post on

And Boeing and the defense industrial complex.

And Industrial farmers, including shit like the Export Credit Guarantee Program, the Dairy Export Incentive Program, and especially corn ($20B between 1979 and 2010).

And the oil industry.

Oh, and then there's housing! Ever heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that more/less led to the great recession?

Holy shit, the list of companies, industries, and private business the government subsidizes is pretty fucking long. It's almost like the government is the 3rd leg of the financial stool our economy sits on!

But hey, back on topic, why don't you itemize Tesla's 2020 subsidies for us!

Tesla managed to avoid a 50/50 equity split with a Chinese partner for their Shanghai location.

Tesla is not forced to partner with a Chinese battery supplier unlike say Mercedes Benz and I think BMW.

PACE loans and other subsidies for their solar business.

Numerous customer level tax credits on vehicle purchases (I'm against them in general because it's the State picking winners/losers).
I really don't understand this logic. Without incentives and subsidies our society would be in shambles. It's not like they are just throwing darts and giving each other handjobs, although I'm sure there is a lot of lobbying to pass certain subsidies and incentives. They all serve a purpose that, in theory, is necessary for the betterment of quality of life. Imagine if everyone just grew weed to get rich and no one farmed fruits and vegetables? We'd all be high fat fucks with heart disease and diabetes.

I can understand that you don't feel that EV's deserve these subsidies, but that's because you feel they don't benefit us, NOT because "subsidies are bad mmmmm-kaaayyy, and the free market shouldn't be messed with". It's been pointed several times in this thread that your idea of a free market not only doesn't really exist but isn't even ideal. Subsidies aren't bad, we implement them all the time to great benefit. What you should be arguing is that they are bad *in this case*. That's a more debatable idea than "subsidies are bad".
Subsidies, and govt intervention in general, distort prices by making products more expensive than they otherwise would be. In aggregate everyone is less* well off, but the subsidized do benefit immensely.

Some glaring examples of this are the rise in the cost of medical care, housing and post-secondary education. The "gain" in the stock market is another.

*Not only do current consumers pay a higher price but they and future generations also must pay for the cost of the subsidy.
They also make products available that we actually need but aren't that profitable for production. Good with the bad. AGAIN, your making a blanket statement about subsidies that you don't have to about EV's. I can easily make an example to argue your point. However, if you merely just say subsidies shouldn't be applied to the EV, that is a more solid, and frankly reasonable argument. Saying subsidies are bad and that's why EV's shouldn't have them... well that's just an easily dismissed absolute. It weakens your argument.
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i