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      02-15-2009, 07:03 PM   #12
Have mercy!

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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA

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Originally Posted by Markoni View Post

Seriously, WTF? So people who have lived much healthier than us since the beginning of time have been wrong in following their hunger. They should have broken down their entire diet into excruciating minutia and counted every calorie? That's the right way, correct?
hunger has nothing to do with it. youre just making shit up again anyway. if this were even true, it would be because before industrialization, people ate whole foods. today people's food comes out of a cardboard box, which wouldnt in any way even be relevant to this discussion.

if people were so much healthier than us at every time prior to now, then why is the average world life expectancy today 66 (this is including shithole countries like Africa btw), while the second highest figure at any point in the history of the world prior to 1900 was 35, and topped out at 40 just 100 years ago?

this, of course, cannot be attributed to scientific or medical advances, because according to you, science cannot be trusted and research is only carried out to make money, not to benefit society in any way.

Originally Posted by markoni
So your custom-designed one-of-a-kind program taking into account all my personal factors is better than :::drumroll::: my appetite?
appetite is irrelevant. it has no bearing on your macronutrient requirements, and is not a reliable indicator of caloric needs. ok, great youre eat somthing. but what? and how much? hunger does not dictate what or how much you should eat to reach your body composition goals. if people ate according to their appetite, no one on this planet would lose weight.

look at horses. their appetite is really a great indicator of their dietary needs. they eat until they die. same with goldfish. have you ever seen a dog that eats until he's satiated? no, this is why no matter how much you feed a dog, he will never stop begging for your table scraps, and why any dog left with free access to food will become overweight.

Originally Posted by markoni
So today when I'm playing in a b-ball tournament all day my calorie intake should be the same as tomorrow when I'm sitting at home watching movies all day? Today, when I'm feeling great, my calorie intake should be the same as tomorrow, when I'm fighting off a cold? Today, when it's freezing outside, my calorie intake should be the same as tomorrow, when it's scorching outside? I should just ignore my hunger and stick to the calorie count, right?
this example works against your argument. you prescribe a standard diet, with varying amounts of salad for satiation. since calories from lettuce are essentially negligible, you WILL be eating the same amount of calories regardless of your activity level.

with calories accounted for, you would eat more on days of high activity, and less on days of lower activity, depending on goals anyway.

Originally Posted by markoni
Or is this personalized-customized-one-of-a-kind calorie count something that needs to be recalculated every moment of the day to take into account all the changing factors? If so, where can I find the formula for this? Do I have to take a class? Do I need a degree for it? Do I need to quit my job and devote myself to these calculations?
standard recommendations for a healthy, training male would be

anywhere from 10-14 cals/lb for weight loss
14-16 cals/lb of lean bodyweight for maintenance
16+ to gain weight

Originally Posted by markoni
Oh wait, here's something the old timers knew that I thought myself too smart for: I can just follow my appetite!

I mean wow, Jesse, if I've ever seen someone complicate something so simple and mundane as healthy eating. It's no secret. There's no formula. There's no scientific breakthrough. People have known it since the beginning of time: Follow your hunger and eat until you're not hungry any more.
you seem to misunderstand the topic of discussion, which is how to optimally lose weight, not how just eat a random, generically healthy diet.

Originally Posted by markoni
It's inborn in us. Look at a baby. It doesn't care how much milk is left in the bottle or how much mashed carrots are left in the jar, when they're not hungry they quit. It's NATURAL and it's SIMPLE!
babies are all fat, too.