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Originally Posted by scotthilly
How about the M3?! The F80 was in numerous comparison tests where, on driving dynamics, it finished last compared to the Giulia Quad, C63, and ATS in C&D. Motortrend said "The M3 was the most clinical, the most removed". Let's not discuss when Motortrend said they'd take a Camaro SS over an M4 any day of the week!
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1) It didn't finish last.
2) I'm not talking about the F80. I wasn't a big fan of the F80. I'm talking about the G80.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotthilly
The G80 was in a comparison test with the Giulia Quad recently and it finished... wait for it.. "The M3 dominates most performance metrics, but the Giulia isn't far off and it has a closer connection to the driver". That's back to back gens that are being crushed for lack of involvement when that was previously BMW's calling card.
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"crushed"
While I can agree that dynamically the Alfa offers a more raw experience - it fails as a car beyond that. And that's why nobody buys them. By the way the CT4V-BW that I mentioned which arguably offers a better dynamic driving experience? It came in 2nd to the G80 in a motor trend comparison - since you like to reference magazine results so much.
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Originally Posted by scotthilly
Plus, you're further proving my point when you reference Porsche. They don't make much that compares to bmw, but the e90 m3 was so good that it invoked the comparison.
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Just because you see magazines making comparisons (they'll compare anything they think will get views) doesn't mean they're competitors. We've seen the G80 compared to the 911 as well (Hell Car Magazine UK did a comparison between the G80 and a 911 and more or less called it a draw). But the fact is Porsche doesn't make direct competitors to BMW outside of potentially their SUVs, and even then they're significantly more expensive.
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Originally Posted by scotthilly
Once again, look at the M Engines from being borderline exotics with personality to now becoming twin turbo inline 6 and v8's.
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So is that better or worse than the competition (Mercedes) replacing their V8s with overly complicated 4 bangers? Because BMW is certainly getting worse than its competition right?
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Originally Posted by scotthilly
Enthusiasts are NOT the entire market, we're an insanely small subsection. If we were bigger, way more people would own things like XE's, Giulia's, G70's, etc, etc.
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I'm not so sure... seems those people are still choosing to buy the m340i or the M3. You know what's even a smaller subsection than enthusiasts? People who think BMW has gotten worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotthilly
there's a reason every single auto journalist talks about BMW "losing feel" or "becoming more mass market" or "losing specialness". They don't say it about anyone else.
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You sure about that? In a world where Mercedes is going 4 cylinder, you sure you haven't heard auto journalists talking about the C63 losing its specialness? You will only ever hear this with cars that have history and journalists yearn for the years with hydraulic steering and naturally aspirated motors. You don't hear it with the Giulia because there's only one generation of Giulia (which is being discontinued btw.... so much for specialness).
I agree that some of the rawness has been lost with all this refinement and luxury. BMW also seems to be saving some of the rawness for its limited models (M4 CSL, M5 CS, etc). But all cars are trending that way in general. I do wish my M3 had a bit more rawness to it. The chassis is superb, the steering is actually pretty good (for a modern BMW), it's got tons of power, and it's actually one of the lightest cars in its class (the RS5 and the C63 are significantly heavier). I've actually replaced some of the rubber bushings with stiffer bushings to get a more direct mechanical feel. I'm in the process of replacing the transmission carrier bushing with a stiffer one as well to get crisper shifting with a more gated feel. So I understand the want for that rawness. But to say that BMW is getting worse while its competitors are getting better is just a ridiculous statement.