Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K
I know you keep mentioning the one mall. The thing is, these watches are sold about everywhere in China, especially in Guangzhou where they are made. You just need to know the right places to go.
I am a native Mandarin speaker and have been to some watch markets. The stuff you mention at the stalls are not the best they have. If you know the right people, they'll take you to a different location for the good stuff or send a runner to pick up a watch if they trust you. The things they sell in their store are usually the low quality items that have high margin. Otherwise they are older versions they are clearing out for the newer versions of the same watches. Of course everything is "high quality" if you ask. You need to know the various replica factories and the models they've produced to know which manufacturer made the watch and which version or revision of that model they are carrying.
I had a replica from Guangzhou a friend (who grew up in Guangzhou) bought for me when he went to visit his family... it was $100 USD and it was complete junk. A low beat movement and the details was completely inaccurate. Not to mention the power reserve was a joke and it didn't last overnight. Never let a friend who doesn't know watches buy a watch for you! You will not find a quality replica for $100. You are looking at a cheaper movement and the details will not be as accurate.
As for the Swiss ETA movement, I did not link to the specific watches but they can be had with a real Swiss ETA movement for a few more dollars. i.e. the web site listing will show Swiss ETA movement + $100. There are a lot of dealers out there and offer a selection of ETA 2836-2, Sellita SW220 and other movements. It just changes the pricing of the watches.
I completely agree with you on buying a complicated replica. I would not buy one for the pure fact that when it needed servicing or stops, where do you take that? An ETA movement or the copies of them can be serviced at any watchsmith.
I find a few fakes are fun along with the real watches I do own. You can try things out that you wouldn't otherwise buy. I've purchased a real watch that I had a replica for just because I liked that particular watch. It was something I never thought I'd like until I wore it for a few months.
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Red:
I can only say that the LCC is the only place I've been that's resulted in my encountering good quality unauthentically branded watches. I'm sure there are other places one can go, even in Shenzhen, to obtain the same items.
I didn't bother going into the details of the process the vendor went through with my colleagues who were buying them. Those details didn't seem relevant to the point of whether good/high quality fakes exist and how much they cost.
Blue:
Well, yes. That's about what any maker/seller of any product anywhere is going to say. Perspective is always what allows them to say so. For what it is, everything is high quality.
For what it is, a Hamilton is a high quality watch. Similarly, for what it is, a fake "whatever" is a high quality watch. That doesn't make either one of them the highest quality -- in terms of design, build and finishing -- that one can buy. How much better might a Hamilton be than is a similar, say, fake Rolex? Well, that depends. If one's wear and timekeeping habits/needs are like mine, probably not much at all. If, instead, one is be rough with a watch as might an underwater spelunker, it's possible neither is "good enough."
What I'm saying is that although the attributes that constitute the highest quality are fairly well defined, but below having every single detail -- inside and out -- be executed to the highest standard, producers make judgement calls and trade-offs. What is the minimum mix of "Nth-degree" traits and shortcuts a maker can take and still produce a high quality watch? I don't know. I do know that the range of possibilities is huge.
Take for example a highly refined watch, a PP, a Voutilainen, a Badollet, or whatever. Makers like that will so finely hone the contact points in the movement so that friction -- a watch movement's biggest "enemy" -- is at the utmost minimum and the timekeeping of their pieces is as good as it gets with mechanical watches. That's all well and good, but machines like that take regular and consistent maintenance to keep running at their best. A less highly refined Rolex 3135 or standard grade ETA (or ETA clone) movement will generally run just fine for decades even if one doesn't service it regularly and consistently.
So that's why what is "high quality" depends. If one doesn't want to every couple years send a watch off for an overhaul/tune-up to keep it running well, the Rolex or basic ETA-inside or even a quartz powered watch is what one will see as being a higher quality movement for one's purposes.
Green:
In my experience, all one needs to know is what a well made watch looks, sounds and feels like. Having a loupe, one can look at the finishing of the contact edges of the visible cogs, wheels and pivot points to gauge how well made the movement is.
I cited those two articles because, unlike you, my Mandarin isn't good enough to discuss watches, particularly fake ones, in that language. I need to be able to look at it, hold it, if possible open it and figure out for myself whether what I'm looking at is any good or pure junk. If the watch were authentic, I wouldn't need to do that because I'd know what the specs are and what role they play in making the watch a higher or lower quality piece. Or, I could rely on the maker's reputation and not worry too much about the details if that be appropriate to why I'm buying the watch.
For example, with authentic pieces, if I just happen to see a stainless steel watch I think looks cool and the name on the dial is, say, Hamilton, I don't really need to wonder how high quality the watch is. I just like the look and I know Hamilton make a decent enough watch that it's not going to let me down, so I'll buy it. If instead I'm looking for a watch that has lots of ultra-smooth, inside edge beveling and other decorative effects, I'm not going to look at a Hamilton or a fake.
Orange:
I'm not sure what you mean by the "details were completely inaccurate." If you are referring to the accuracy with which a fake maker mimics the appearance of the corresponding authentic watch, okay. I don't see that as a good reason for buying a fake. IMO, a good reason for buying a fake is because it performs -- mechanically and physically -- in accordance with one's expectations.
I'm not naive enough to fail to realize that comparisons -- mechanical and physical -- between/with the fake and the genuine article aren't inevitable. Indeed, doing so is entertaining and informative, but be that as it may, it's but an academic pursuit. A fake watch, and whether one wants to buy one, depends on the merit of the watch itself, not its fake branding.
Regardless of what other folks think or do, my indifference toward fake watches and whether one wears one issues from the fact that I don't consider, say, a fake Rolex to be a substitute for an authentic Rolex. I consider a fake Rolex to be a substitute (economic principle) for a variety of watches that are (1) priced lower than Rolexes, and therefore (2) are not Rolexes. The idea that I'd buy a fake watch as a way to get the substance of the genuine article is preposterous; that's just not going to happen, no matter how good the fake is.
As for what I can or can't get for $100, well, I'm in a better position to attest to that than you. Suffice to say that ETA's patents on its basic movements have long since expired, which is why Selitta, Soporod and various Chinese makers can clone them. At retail, Chinese made ETA-clones are inexpensive; at wholesale, in the PRC, they are very inexpensive, especially the standard grade clones. (
http://www.perrinwatchparts.com/cat_...movements.aspx)
Purple:
Where? Search here and you'll be able to find out where:
https://members.awci.com/AWCIWEB/AWC...berSearch.aspx . If push comes to shove, you can send it to Roland at RGM; he restores vintage pieces made by long defunct makers. There's no question he can do the job if one is willing to pay him to do so.
A duly certified can service any watch. If there's going to be an "issue" it'll have to do with parts availability. Now if push comes to shove, the watchmaker can fabricate the needed part from scratch; that's part of their training. For the consumer, it's not actually a question of whether one can get it serviced, but rather how much one wants to pay to have it serviced/repaired. I personally wouldn't spend a large sum to have a watchmaker fabricate a part for a fake watch, but somebody else might. I didn't buy a Pet Rock or Chia Pet either, but millions of people did.
All the best.