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      01-25-2021, 07:54 AM   #239
David70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
That's never been true in any industry since the at least 70s, and likely before. To wit:

* Blockbuster never caught up with Netflix, never copied their software, went bankrupt. Hulu, Disney, HBOMax, et al are trying to catch up, and may, but who knows ... and online content is the industry with the least susceptibility to software-based disruption (viewers are simple) - yet here we are 25 years later and Netflix competitors are far from beating it.

* Walmart & Target have never caught up with Amazon, never copied their software, are still trying to catch up (but never will).

* Nokia, Ericksson, Blackberry have never caught up with Apple, never copied their software, and never will catch up.


In short, no: legacy competition won't catch up unless consumer autos defies business physics ... and it won't and here's why:

(1.) TSLA is the top brand in BEVs, and has be for 10 YEARS, not only has no competitor caught up, no competitor has come close.

(2.) The CEO of VW-Audi Group, (i.e., Porsche) said in blogpost, VAG is 4 years behind Tesla's Technology. Further VW management is a fractured mess, Diess is at war with the board, and they're completely unorganized.

(3.) The boards of VAG, Benz, and BMW met in Q1 2020 to discuss a BEV software JV to take on Tesla; i.e., the German automakers - at the very highest levels - believe Tesla has a BEV technology lead.

(4.) TSLA is profitably making and selling BEVs - who else is?

(5.) TSLA vehicles and technology aren't and won't be frozen in time; they'll continue releasing better technology, more vehicles, new design, and more features at an accelerating pace ... how do we know? Because this is has been happening for a decade.


Further, TSLA's corporate structure is 100% built to innovate and profitably build BEVs - no competitor comes close to that and TSLA's patented manufacturing technology is just coming online. This is why tech brand leaders always win no matter how big the competition is: they have legacy costs and their corporate structures are built around legacy product, not new products. For example:

• Tesla has no union costs or legacy union costs like pensions to fund
• Tesla has no marketing costs; VW spent $400M on BEV marketing in Q4 alone
• Tesla has no dealership margins to pay; VW can't make this work as it is (inside scoop is ~ICE margin is 16% but BEV margin is 0% with VW promising to make it up)

As it stands, TSLA has all ICE manufacturers beat cold on costs and this will only get better for Tesla.

Yes, as competitors put out debut models it'll definitely impact Tesla sales, and maybe a competitor will have a hit, but as I said, Tesla isn't standing still with either models, features, manufacturing tech, factory capacity, or battery tech.


With that, there are players who are a large threat to Tesla:

Apple may beat TSLA with a stronger brand and outsourced manufacturing

• TSLA may get overwhelmed by by generic platforms running Big Tech software

• Tesla has big trouble in little China

• Tesla will face other tech competitors: the SPACs, upstarts, JVs, and others ...


But no, the odds of legacy auto manufacturers beating TSLA, given current trends, isn't supported by available data.
Showing examples of companies that stayed out in front is interesting but if you listed the initial leaders that were then overrun by the giants the list is also very long. Amazon's value is not software, Blockbuster had many issues, far past just copying Netflix software. Most of your examples you point to software when it isn't why they are leader in their market.

I think the only place Tesla is really ahead of the game is in their batteries and over the air updates. Anything else? Make a better battery and with it the powertrain advantage is gone? Past the battery I can't see rest of the powertrain being that difficult as the benefit of the EV is partly how simple it is build, maintain and operate.

They are far behind in their sales and service locations, production capabilities and manufacturing of everything past the powertrain. The interior, fit and finish, overall quality is hopefully average. Large parts of the world don't live anywhere near a Tesla sales/service location.

In 2020 71 million cars were produced, 500k were from Tesla. They are ahead in one tiny part of the market. Time will tell if they can stay there but long term it's a market that generates very small margins and much of why winners stay where they are because they take every last part of cost out.

Even your chart on profits look pretty dismal and their profit is generated from selling credits to their competitors. Not hard to see this part quickly coming to an end. Their profits allow them to invest in future products and facilities and it's peanuts compared to some of the large companies. The S came out in 2012 and hopefully will finally see an update.
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Last edited by David70; 01-25-2021 at 08:01 AM..
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