Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue
Here is the thing. Porsche could have continue making niche market cars, just like Lotus. But it would have been a terrible business plan for them... If I have to choose a between a very well polished but a little watered down 911 or a "focused" 911 that is made by some company that is on the verge of bankruptcy and barely has enough R&D money pour into its newest product, I would pick the "watered down" one...
I don't really agree with a lot of what you said about turbo cars. You can't hear them??? Sure you can't hear a 320 or 328i at all, but you sure as hell will hear a M4 or a 911 Turbo coming from a block away. Btw, E9x M3 sounds extremely tame with stock exhaust (and honestly sounds terrible at idle), and certainly won't raise anyone's attention on the street. It is a different matter with some good aftermarket exhaust though.
And the comparison of radio-quartz vs mechanical watches (which to mind you, the Swiss watch industry is very tightly regulated to avoid water down the profit margin, much like the diamond industry) is just silly since a high performance FI engine is quite a bit more complex and expensive to produce than NA engine of equivalent output, which isn't the case with watches.
At the end of the day, it is all down to personal preference. NA has a charm of its own, so do FI (endless torque rush that is impossible to reproduce without going EV, turbo whines and blow off sounds, etc.) It is totally cool to prefer one over the other, but there is certainly no need to discredit turbo engines just for the sake of doing so, which is seems to trends these days.
The main problem with turbo of the old days is throttle response, which is again contradictory to the current trends, since it was the turbo lags that made those old school turbo engines so interesting to drive (930, 959, F40, XJ220, the list goes on...) Funny how public opinion can be shifted so dramatically over time, no?
But like you said it yourself, the newer engines has virtually no lag when the engine is in its optimal rpms... So what is not to like? The sound, is that it? The NA flat six never sounded THAT GOOD to begin with... So I am not sure how that argument works... It is not like the older 911 sounded like a Carrera GT or S85 with straight pipes, then you guys might have a point. IMO, the 9A2 engine sounds fine even without PSE exhaust, and sound much closer to the traditional sound of 993 and such, without the raspyness of the 996 and 997 engines.
GT3 (starting at $120-130K here in US) really isn't that expensive btw, a mildly optioned C2S or GTS can cost just as much if not more. The problem is the availability of the GT3, which you have to blame on Porsche for producing such limited numbers to intentionally hype up the market. Say whatever you want, Porsche is probably the best in the business when it comes to manipulating its intended market.
In all, I think the 991.2 is a great car and retain the original characteristics of the car while making it a more accessible street car for more people, and all these turbo vs NA or the 911 vs Corvette (which is a much cheaper and less practical car made by a company that I would rather not buy anything from) comparison is downright silly. The upcoming turbo flat-4 boxster and cayman on the other hands... hummm, I am not so sure.
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First of all, I think this is a great discussion!
I agree that the overall market requires Porsche, BMW and co. to go this watered down direction. I mean, we feel that everywhere, no matter at what company. Nevertheless am I very upset about it. Because nowadays, numbers are all that counts. If a company makes 1% less profit than last year, it's already a tragedy.
You definitely can't hear turbo cars approaching. All you hear is what is coming from the exhaust, which also isn't much unless it's straight piped. The E9x M3 sounded amazing in every single way. Yes, you can improve the exhaust a lot with an aftermarket exhaust, but the sheer induction noise made this car so unique and fun to hear around town or on a racetrack. Now, nothing. And I just tested the M4. Most disappointing car from BMW M I have ever driven, even it is a lot of fun to drift. And the idle sound of a N/A engine, that's exactly what I compare with a mechanical watch. I am not talking about development costs etc. but you just get that feel of mechanical parts that are working in perfect harmony. Unlike in these modern turbo cars that are full with computers. Ok, this is a bit of a broad complain lol. Besides, turbos are such an easy and usually cheap way to get more power out of any kind of engine, which is what I kind of mean with it being less special.
I discredit turbo engines because I have yet to drive a turbo car that gives me as much pleasure as a great N/A car. There is no other reason for me to discredit anything just for fun.
Yeah the good old turbo cars of the 80s and 90s with immense turbo lag lol. That at least had character. I doubt however that it's such a nice driving experience over time haha.
The FLAT SIX doesn't sound good!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!
You must be kidding about that lol. It sounds so freaking amazing imo. I mean having that engine scream behind you at 9000 rpm (or even at 7.5k in the Carrera) sounds just like a race car. However, that is seriously down to personal preference
Yea the GT3 is at a very fair price point, at least if you get one from Porsche directly. Otherwise you have to pay a hefty premium as you said.
"In all, I think the 991.2 is a great car and retain the original characteristics of the car while making it a more accessible street car for more people" - I can agree with this, but my problem is that it is a more accessible street car for more people. That makes it less of an interesting car. I hope you get what I mean...
And hahahahah yeah... we all are afraid of the 4 cylinder Turbo engine in the next Boxster lol. Even the guys from Porsche don't feel too confident about it from what I felt.