[iXLagrange]

The Out of Spec 3000 mile EV 'race' from one end of I90 to the other (Seattle to Boston) has posted the results. The i7, which has much the same EV hardware as the iX, did not fare well, largely because of slow charging relative to other the vehicles and inbuilt derating that kicks in after successive DC charging.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by iXLagrange

The Out of Spec 3000 mile EV 'race' from one end of I90 to the other (Seattle to Boston) has posted the results. The i7, which has much the same EV hardware as the iX, did not fare well, largely because of slow charging relative to other the vehicles and inbuilt derating that kicks in after successive DC charging.

Can you summarize the rules for this race? I'm not watching the ridiculously long videos about it any time soon

[drbluedevil]

The trailer indicates they intended to conduct the race "legally," which I interpret as following speed limits among other driving laws. Like you, I refuse to watch the videos in their entirety to figure that out.

I like the idea of conducting an experiment like this under relatively real-world conditions as opposed to some inapplicable and dangerous nonsense like a Cannonball Run. I'd never consider a long road trip with today's EVs and charging infrastructure, but it's cool to see people try it.

Solid state batteries can't come soon enough.

[LuisBoston]

That the Taycan was only slightly longer than the gasser is incredible.

Of all those I’d want to be sitting in the i7 on that long boring trip. It’s one comfy cruiser.

[iXLagrange]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

Can you summarize the rules for this race? I'm not watching the ridiculously long videos about it any time soon

Basically, speed must not exceed 10 mph over the limit, which is pretty must what usual traffic moves at anyway.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

That the Taycan was only slightly longer than the gasser is incredible.

But that's why I want to know the rules... I've said multiple times that on usual road trips the difference in time between an EV like the iX and a gas counterpart is going to be negligible.

But if you are doing a 50ish hour cross country "race" but set it up to help bridge the gap between EVs and gas cars, you are not giving people useful information in the end.

So for these results to make sense, they'd have to mirror how you would do the same trip given the chance. If the starting point is driving at the speed limit, these results are meaningless for just about everyone because as we all know, most of us speed a little over, and that makes a huge impact on range in both gas and EV cars, but the has car recovers that range so much faster.

Anyway, seeing that small difference makes it feel as if the rules were made to minimise the EV downsides as much as they could. I'll try to see if i can find a summary of the rules somewhere.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by iXLagrange

Basically, speed must not exceed 10 mph over the limit, which is pretty must what usual traffic moves at anyway.

That's fine, but i am going to assume they had specific duration breaks for food and rest as well?

[GoodForYourHeart]

Driving 50+ hours non-stop across the country is far from typical, so I take these test results with a grain of salt. The participant only took breaks to charge, except for a couple of isolated coffee breaks. It's not a likely scenario for someone traveling 3,000+ miles in a $100k EV, but it certainly makes for interesting YouTube content.

On the bright side, every modern EVs made it across the country with limited fuss and in a reasonable amount of time. The charging infrastructure, while not perfect, is adequate to support such a journey.

A difference of just 5 hours between the most efficient sedans and the most luxurious EVs seems quite reasonable to me. And it seems we are just a few years away from parity with ICE sedans.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

That's fine, but i am going to assume they had specific duration breaks for food and rest as well?

I watched the part of the first video with the rules.

Max 10 mph over the posted speed limit.
Max 85mph overall.
3 people per car, 1 to record, 1 to drive and one resting and no forced stops.

That's it unless there are more hidden away in the 3h long videos that I'll never watch.

The first two rules are going to benefit the EVs. The third one doesn't.

After going on about picking the best specced versions of the EVs, they purposely picked an inefficient version of the gas car... It would have been better to remove some of the EVs that were not going to do well, like an original model s, and replace them with great distance road tripping gas cars and even a good long range diesel. For instance if they included an old skyactiv mazda3 which does 4.9L/100km (48mpg) , with its 14.5 gallon tank, it would have to do like half the stops of that Acura.

[Pictor]

My typical road trip would include a hotel stop each night. At minimum, that would be more representative of road trips across the country along I-90. This would likely have had a big impact on charging if the hotel or camping stop included a Level 2 charge. Campgrounds, even in the most rural areas, will have (TT-30 or NEMA 14-50) RV hookups for an overnight charge.

[RichardInCA]

Really interesting - the Ioniq 6 efficiency is impressive - beating the Lucid Air (which doesn’t get great efficiency tbh). Like others these videos are just too long for folks with day jobs, lives, chores etc so it’s nice to get the results. I assume that the Taycan won through it’s ridiculously fast charging.

[iXLagrange]

Originally Posted by RichardInCA

Really interesting - the Ioniq 6 efficiency is impressive - beating the Lucid Air (which doesn’t get great efficiency tbh). Like others these videos are just too long for folks with day jobs, lives, chores etc so it’s nice to get the results. I assume that the Taycan won through it’s ridiculously fast charging.

The Ioniq 6 and new base Tesla 3 long range were both surprises. The Lucid was in the same group as them for most of the event but ran out of charge and had to be towed to a charger. Yes, that is why the Taycan won.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by GoodForYourHeart

And it seems we are just a few years away from parity with ICE sedans.

Sorry, but that is not going to happen any time soon.

For the foreseeable future, filling a gas tank will be faster than recharging a big EV battery. In a real world scenario, were you need to do this cross country drive, the best you could expect is to have a negligible difference for most people (or as Kyle would say "as close as makes no difference"). The quicker you drive, the more advantageous it is to use a gas/diesel vehicle.

In a real world scenario, where you are going to stop for bio-breaks, stop to eat, sleep at a hotel overnight, etc., the difference starts getting significantly reduced (because you can charge during these stops), but it is still there. Doing the trip in an EV forces you to take a less cannonbally approach to it which makes the long drives easier to tolerate for many of us. Of course if you are doing a long trip regularly you may want to do it as fast as possible instead of it being more relaxed.

[NomoTesla]

This seems like a rather stupid test. Kind of like Bjorn's stupid tests that have no relationship to reality. Then the results are presented to us as if they are somehow meaningful when they are totally meaningless.

On my last roadtrip (~1,500 miles each way), my iX did not throttle once. That's because I did what normal people do. I charged to 100% at home before departing, DC charged about 4x during the first 800 mile leg to our hotel, and then AC charged to 100% overnight at the hotel. The next day we completed the next ~700-800 mile leg charging 4x DC without any throttling.

Idiotic tests like these do nothing to help people like me who live in the real world of Planet Earth. Perhaps they have just run out of things to talk about. I might suggest they spend some quality time with a stupid easy editing program like Capcut Pro.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

This seems like a rather stupid test. Kind of like Bjorn's stupid tests that have no relationship to reality. Then the results are presented to us as if they are somehow meaningful when they are totally meaningless.

On my last roadtrip (~1,500 miles each way), my iX did not throttle once. That's because I did what normal people do. I charged to 100% at home before departing, DC charged about 4x during the first 800 mile leg to our hotel, and then AC charged to 100% overnight at the hotel. The next day we completed the next ~700-800 mile leg charging 4x DC without any throttling.

Idiotic tests like these do nothing to help people like me who live in the real world of Planet Earth. Perhaps they have just run out of things to talk about. I might suggest they spend some quality time with a stupid easy editing program like Capcut Pro.

I find Bjorn's 1000 km test much more relevant as that is closer to how much driving many people are willing to do in a day on a long trip. He also corrects for minor issues that occur so that comparing the results is somewhat meaningful. However there are always fluctuations due to weather and in the end only runs at similar temps/conditions should really be compared.
It is not perfect by any means, but much more relevant than a cross country race with 3 man teams going non-stop. I consider this "race" as entertainment if you like that sort of thing. I personally got over the vlog style car videos a looooong time ago.

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

I find Bjorn's 1000 km test much more relevant as that is closer to how much driving many people are willing to do in a day on a long trip. He also corrects for minor issues that occur so that comparing the results is somewhat meaningful. However there are always fluctuations due to weather and in the end only runs at similar temps/conditions should really be compared.
It is not perfect by any means, but much more relevant than a cross country race with 3 man teams going non-stop. I consider this "race" as entertainment if you like that sort of thing. I personally got over the vlog style car videos a looooong time ago.

My basis for comparison is my 2013 Model S. I was quite happy with the charging performance back then for my style of driving. My iX charges over 50% faster and with half the charging stops. I'm 100% satisfied with that. I couldn't care less that a car costing $30,000 more than I paid can drive across the country in less time. If I needed to do that I'd be flying and renting a car on the other side.

I think the folks at Kyle's YT channel conveniently forgot how people actually use their cars. Maybe they should do an episode of how we can live in our cars and use them as mobile homes. I would find that type of video just as useful as these useless ones lol

[Maverick241]

Originally Posted by drbluedevil

The trailer indicates they intended to conduct the race "legally," which I interpret as following speed limits among other driving laws. Like you, I refuse to watch the videos in their entirety to figure that out.

I like the idea of conducting an experiment like this under relatively real-world conditions as opposed to some inapplicable and dangerous nonsense like a Cannonball Run. I'd never consider a long road trip with today's EVs and charging infrastructure, but it's cool to see people try it.

Solid state batteries can't come soon enough.

3 hours per episode. Absolutely insane and Typical Kyle. They could have easily edited this to like 90 mins or less and it would have been watchable.

[Maverick241]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

This seems like a rather stupid test. Kind of like Bjorn's stupid tests that have no relationship to reality. Then the results are presented to us as if they are somehow meaningful when they are totally meaningless.

On my last roadtrip (~1,500 miles each way), my iX did not throttle once. That's because I did what normal people do. I charged to 100% at home before departing, DC charged about 4x during the first 800 mile leg to our hotel, and then AC charged to 100% overnight at the hotel. The next day we completed the next ~700-800 mile leg charging 4x DC without any throttling.

Idiotic tests like these do nothing to help people like me who live in the real world of Planet Earth. Perhaps they have just run out of things to talk about. I might suggest they spend some quality time with a stupid easy editing program like Capcut Pro.

A lot of Kyles tests are stupid and pointless. Case in point very VERY few people are going to drive across the country in an EV or even an ICE car over flying.

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by Maverick241

A lot of Kyles tests are stupid and pointless. Case in point very VERY few people are going to drive across the country in an EV or even an ICE car over flying.

He lives in a bubble like a lot of people. They think their world is the real world.

[A418t81]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

He lives in a bubble like a lot of people. They think their world is the real world.

Every person does this. All of us. Our perception is our reality.

[frank70]

This kind of test is obviously totally useless as no-one will drive this kind of distance without stopping for the night at least once, or more likely 2 times. During those overnight stops you normally can AC charge the car, so no DC derating would occur in that case.

What i am also missing is some perspective as to why BMW is derating DC charging after a lot of DC charging in a short period of time. There must be a reason as to why they programmed the software to do this in my opinion.
I saw a Youtube video some weeks ago where a Uber driver bought a Tesla Model 3 Standard Range and then drove over 100.000 miles with it in 1 year. He daily DC fast charged his car multiple times. After about 14 months and 120.000 miles his battery failed and he needed a new battery out of warranty. Tesla's comment on this was that the batteries are not made for this kind of extreme use with so many DC charges within such a short period of time.

So i guess you have your answer there : BMW also has a lot of experience with over 250.000 produced i3's since 2013 and i am sure they also have experienced some battery failures due to extreme DC charging.
BMW being very conservative and very German likely decides to prevent this kind of battery damage with a software derating DC charging in extreme use cases.

For me that is a good thing.

[Pictor]

Looks like Kyle may need to run his test next year with the new CLA as it beat the Taycan by 180 miles in a 24hr endurance run.