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      04-01-2020, 05:25 PM   #793
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Q'n re dashcams: any story/experience when it was usefull, to anyone, whether the actual footage or just its presence?
Dash cams or more specifically, body worn cams, are good and bad. They are great in terms of combatting claims of mistreatment, force overreach, etc. They are absolutely horrible in terms of privacy violations (...they record 24/7, even when they aren't "activated", so anything you say to your partners in private, on a telephone while wearing one, etc. is subject to be heard, at least for a period of time), causing officer hesitation, making hindsight judgments on fluid, rapidly evolving situations, etc. I would rather NOT have them.
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      04-01-2020, 05:26 PM   #794
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A computer course isn't going to do anything to protect you when someone kicks in your front door, because I can assure you that me and my partners WILL NOT be there to immediately assist you.
A culture of learning will better your situation way more assuredly than a culture of guns. With the increased income, you could buy a spy doorbell, or you could move to a nabe where front doors aren't kicked in so often; one with better cops.
My first Samoyed stopped a front door push-in robbery. It was pretty immediate too! But hey, if you would rather spend time figuring out how to shoot someone better instead of using that time for advancement, that's your choice.

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      04-01-2020, 05:28 PM   #795
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And some goober off the street can also buy that gun. I would hope he might spend on a license, a lesson, and some practice, some ammo....
But a gun culture does not do your children any good. I'm old enough to see where many of my high school mates ended up. The ones I shot skeet with didn't end up in fortune 500 corps. Just sayin'!

Murf
You clearly have an anti-gun bias. Your premise seems to be that the only way to "better yourself" is to not own guns.

I suspect that some of your friends that didn't shoot skeet also didn't end up in fortune 500 companies.

My wife has spent most of her adult life in Fortune 500 Companies, ending up in senior leadership rolls with many of them....she also shoots a Henry rifle and is the proud owner of a Smith and Wesson .357 magnum which she enjoys shooting and is very proficient with. Head shots all day long at 60'. We have had big dogs which are a good deterrent, but I believe in not putting all of my eggs in one basket.

I have guns for recreation, I've been shooting my whole life and was a LEO for over 30 years in a large city. I moved to a small town with very low crime rates and I am aware of my surrounding. I am physically fit and can defend myself but I also know that there is alway someone tougher, and dogs don't scare everyone. Especially since very few dogs are properly trained. So if someone can get by my dog and my locked front door I won't be using my fist in the hope that I am tougher, I will use a firearm to protect my family, my home, my dog and myself.

But I guess you're better than me because you take computer courses and do community work.....oh wait, I do those things to.

And it would never occur to me to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your discretionary income or spare time as long as it's not against the law.
Amen Sir! Without intentionally sounding abrasive, he is clueless.
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      04-01-2020, 06:21 PM   #796
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We have some personal protective equipment (..namely N95 masks and latex gloves; the latter we've always kept with us anyway). The truth of the matter is that being a first responder means that we put ourselves in the line of fire because we're dealing with HIV/AIDS/Hep ABC/etc. infected members of the non-homeless/homeless population. As far as the COVID flu is concerned, we are being less proactive and we aren't really making many obs arrests. The warrant amount that we will arrest for jumped up to $50k (...$75k if we want to book at the main jail rather than the station jail). I came into contact with COVID flu in the jails in January and I didn't get sick. I figure it was a combination of my natural immune system (...I rarely get sick and I haven't had the flu ever since I was about 8 years old), built up immunity (...from working in nasty ass jails for a few years), my level of fitness (...which builds immunity) and the multitude of immunizations I've had more recently (..common flu, Hep A/B, diphtheria, acellular pertussis, etc.).

I have partners who have contracted it and were fine after a z-pack and 5-6 days of antibiotics. Conversely, two nurses who work in one of our facilities died in the last couple of days. I'm not sure what their level of health was prior to contracting COVID nor if they had any underlying condition(s) that worsened the situation for them.

I'm not practicing social distancing much. For me personally it is rather pointless since my job doesn't allow for quarantining (...right up there with fire fighters, etc.). I still date and hang out with friends. I'm not overly worried about it personally. The large majority who contract this flu strain recover. I do, however, think before visiting my mother and her husband since they are both in their late 60's and are at a significantly higher risk of a problematic recovery should they contract it.

Although this flu bug is running rampant, the response has been horribly overblown. The normal influenza - which is also a coronavirus with the same age/risk factors, and the same symptomatic M.O. - kills on average 4,000 people a week; many, many thousands a year. People are oblivious to the stats or just don't care, yet they act like the world is going to end over this. The media won't tell you about the large majority who recover. They only cite deaths which add to the hysteria of society's lemmings.
Thanks for the insight and stay safe out there. Unfortunately I can’t agree that covid19 is like the flu in terms of virility/mortality and we’re already seeing the effects in our larger cities. However, I do hope it gets under control. Regardless, stay safe and healthy!
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      04-01-2020, 06:26 PM   #797
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We have some personal protective equipment (..namely N95 masks and latex gloves; the latter we've always kept with us anyway). The truth of the matter is that being a first responder means that we put ourselves in the line of fire because we're dealing with HIV/AIDS/Hep ABC/etc. infected members of the non-homeless/homeless population. As far as the COVID flu is concerned, we are being less proactive and we aren't really making many obs arrests. The warrant amount that we will arrest for jumped up to $50k (...$75k if we want to book at the main jail rather than the station jail). I came into contact with COVID flu in the jails in January and I didn't get sick. I figure it was a combination of my natural immune system (...I rarely get sick and I haven't had the flu ever since I was about 8 years old), built up immunity (...from working in nasty ass jails for a few years), my level of fitness (...which builds immunity) and the multitude of immunizations I've had more recently (..common flu, Hep A/B, diphtheria, acellular pertussis, etc.).

I have partners who have contracted it and were fine after a z-pack and 5-6 days of antibiotics. Conversely, two nurses who work in one of our facilities died in the last couple of days. I'm not sure what their level of health was prior to contracting COVID nor if they had any underlying condition(s) that worsened the situation for them.

I'm not practicing social distancing much. For me personally it is rather pointless since my job doesn't allow for quarantining (...right up there with fire fighters, etc.). I still date and hang out with friends. I'm not overly worried about it personally. The large majority who contract this flu strain recover. I do, however, think before visiting my mother and her husband since they are both in their late 60's and are at a significantly higher risk of a problematic recovery should they contract it.

Although this flu bug is running rampant, the response has been horribly overblown. The normal influenza - which is also a coronavirus with the same age/risk factors, and the same symptomatic M.O. - kills on average 4,000 people a week; many, many thousands a year. People are oblivious to the stats or just don't care, yet they act like the world is going to end over this. The media won't tell you about the large majority who recover. They only cite deaths which add to the hysteria of society's lemmings.
Thanks for the insight and stay safe out there. Unfortunately I can't agree that covid19 is like the flu in terms of virility/mortality and we're already seeing the effects in our larger cities. However, I do hope it gets under control. Regardless, stay safe and healthy!
They are very similar. The overall numbers verify that fact. Furthermore, how can you disagree about the virility/mortality when the flu is confirmed to cause nearly a million hospitalizations a year and kill upwards of 60,000 people a year in the U.S. alone. That's a CDC fact, and is a low estimate on top of that. The same people that generally die from the flu are the same people who are dying from COVID. That is another fact. How are they so dissimilar?

There have been approximately 3,600 COVID deaths in the U.S. and U.S. territories (...Puerto Rico, Guam, etc.) since the onset. The common flu kills far more than that in the same timeframe. I'm not saying it is apples to apples because the COVID strain is slightly different (...more like naval oranges to cuties), but overall it is the flu.
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      04-01-2020, 07:14 PM   #798
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They are very similar. The overall numbers verify that fact. Furthermore, how can you disagree about the virility/mortality when the flu is confirmed to cause nearly a million hospitalizations a year and kill upwards of 60,000 people a year in the U.S. alone. That's a CDC fact, and is a low estimate on top of that. The same people that generally die from the flu are the same people who are dying from COVID. That is another fact. How are they so dissimilar?

There have been approximately 3,600 COVID deaths in the U.S. and U.S. territories (...Puerto Rico, Guam, etc.) since the onset. The common flu kills far more than that in the same timeframe. I'm not saying it is apples to apples because the COVID strain is slightly different (...more like naval oranges to cuties), but overall it is the flu.
I believe your numbers to be off. Flu hospitalization is in the half million range, but far more importantly is the hospitalization rate along with the duration. Further compounded by no one having immunity except for those who had it. Below is a good article with numbers from reliable sources such as the CDC, WHO, NIH, and other credible medical establishments. Fact of the matter is we don’t yet know what the global impact will be until this is over, but indicators are strong that this is more than slightly different.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-and-different
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      04-01-2020, 07:16 PM   #799
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They are very similar. The overall numbers verify that fact. Furthermore, how can you disagree about the virility/mortality when the flu is confirmed to cause nearly a million hospitalizations a year and kill upwards of 60,000 people a year in the U.S. alone. That's a CDC fact, and is a low estimate on top of that. The same people that generally die from the flu are the same people who are dying from COVID. That is another fact. How are they so dissimilar?

There have been approximately 3,600 COVID deaths in the U.S. and U.S. territories (...Puerto Rico, Guam, etc.) since the onset. The common flu kills far more than that in the same timeframe. I'm not saying it is apples to apples because the COVID strain is slightly different (...more like naval oranges to cuties), but overall it is the flu.
I believe your numbers to be off. Flu hospitalization is in the half million range, but far more importantly is the hospitalization rate along with the duration. Further compounded by no one having immunity except for those who had it. Below is a good article with numbers from reliable sources such as the CDC, WHO, NIH, and other credible medical establishments. Fact of the matter is we don't yet know what the global impact will be until this is over, but indicators are strong that this is more than slightly different.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-and-different
I pulled those numbers directly from the CDC website (...even though I already knew the range anyway), so if my numbers are off then the CDC's numbers are off.
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      04-01-2020, 07:43 PM   #800
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Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
They are very similar. The overall numbers verify that fact. Furthermore, how can you disagree about the virility/mortality when the flu is confirmed to cause nearly a million hospitalizations a year and kill upwards of 60,000 people a year in the U.S. alone. That's a CDC fact, and is a low estimate on top of that. The same people that generally die from the flu are the same people who are dying from COVID. That is another fact. How are they so dissimilar?

There have been approximately 3,600 COVID deaths in the U.S. and U.S. territories (...Puerto Rico, Guam, etc.) since the onset. The common flu kills far more than that in the same timeframe. I'm not saying it is apples to apples because the COVID strain is slightly different (...more like naval oranges to cuties), but overall it is the flu.
I believe your numbers to be off. Flu hospitalization is in the half million range, but far more importantly is the hospitalization rate along with the duration. Further compounded by no one having immunity except for those who had it. Below is a good article with numbers from reliable sources such as the CDC, WHO, NIH, and other credible medical establishments. Fact of the matter is we don't yet know what the global impact will be until this is over, but indicators are strong that this is more than slightly different.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-and-different
I pulled those numbers directly from the CDC website (...even though I already knew the range anyway), so if my numbers are off then the CDC's numbers are off.
Fair enough. Top chart shows a significant range due to the aggregated data from a decade, but the 2019 data shows about a half million hospitalized with about 34k deaths. However, 2018's data is significantly worse, in tune with the numbers you presented. Like stated earlier, once the dust settles we'll have a stronger data set around covid19 to make more accurate comparisons.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
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      04-02-2020, 05:11 AM   #801
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You live in a bubble. That much is apparent.
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.... How would you like it if someone told you that you were wasting your money on computer courses rather than buying a gun to be a better supporter of the US constitution?
We all live in a bubble. That is just a stupid comment meant to insult, explaining nothing, adding nothing.

I'm sorry Murf993, but it isn't all about you. I thought we were talking about the hoards of zombies roaming the streets, looking to kick in your door.
These are the people who would benefit from a stronger culture of learning rather than immersing in the gun culture. You, who makes it known you own a Porche (not just a BMW), might need a trip to the empathy store, but you are not one I am talking about when I recommend more computer education.

In this modern world I think we all live in, there are two socio-economic groups that stand out to me. The Jewish people outperform the masses (some say they control the world!), stressing learning & the book. Asian folks also outperform, and are known to have extreme devotion to learning how to advance. Neither group relied on guns to advance.
My parents did it the Catholic way. They had a bunch (4 in the first batch, then two more on the side), threw them out on the street, & hoped one would rise to the top. So last century.

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      04-02-2020, 05:18 AM   #802
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You live in a bubble. That much is apparent.
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.... How would you like it if someone told you that you were wasting your money on computer courses rather than buying a gun to be a better supporter of the US constitution?
We all live in a bubble. That is just a stupid comment meant to insult, explaining nothing, adding nothing.

I'm sorry Murf993, but it isn't all about you. I thought we were talking about the hoards of zombies roaming the streets, looking to kick in your door.
These are the people who would benefit from a stronger culture of learning rather than immersing in the gun culture. You, who makes it known you own a Porche (not just a BMW), might need a trip to the empathy store, but you are not one I am talking about with my comment above.

In this modern world I think we all live in, there are two socio-economic groups that stand out to me. The Jewish people outperform the masses, stressing learning & the book. Asian folks also outperform, and are known to have extreme devotion to learning how to advance.
My parents did it the Catholic way. They had a bunch, threw them out on the street, & hoped someone would rise to the top. So last century.

Murf
Aren't you supposed to be studying Windows 98 or something?
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      04-02-2020, 05:25 AM   #803
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Aren't you supposed to be studying Windows 98 or something?
Don't you want to buy another blunderbuss?

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      04-02-2020, 06:18 AM   #804
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So what's your concern, the cost of buying a gun (pretty low actually) or the actual ownership of guns....
My concern is that more is spent on needless guns (yes Virginia, some guns are needed...) than on charities, specifically scholarships for children.

My last BMW (E46) went to Jimmy Carter & Habitat for Humanity!

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      04-02-2020, 06:33 AM   #805
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My concern is that more is spent on needless guns (yes Virginia, some guns are needed...) than on charities, specifically scholarships for children.

My last BMW (E46) went to Jimmy Carter & Habitat for Humanity!

Murf
In 2017 Americans donated $417 Billion to charity and spent $28 Billion on guns.

https://www.charitychoices.com/page/...iven-whom-what

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabe.../#146a54fa3ae8
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      04-02-2020, 08:43 AM   #806
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In 2017 Americans donated $417 Billion to charity and spent $28 Billion on guns.

https://www.charitychoices.com/page/...iven-whom-what

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabe.../#146a54fa3ae8
I am very happy to hear that. Thanks!

"Who gets all this money?

Religious Organizations receive nearly one in three dollars – a total of about $123 billion in 2016.
Education receives the second largest amount -- nearly $60 billion in 2016. About three out of four education dollars go to 4-year colleges and universities (according to Indiana University’s Lilly Family School of Philanthropy).
Human Services received nearly $47 billion.
Health Organizations received about $33 billion, or 8% of the total.
Public-Sector Benefit Organizations (such as United Ways and Jewish Federations) received nearly $30 billion.
International Affairs received just over $22 billion.
Arts and Cultural Organizations received about $18 billion.
Environmental and Animal Organizations received about $11 billion."


Murf
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Last edited by Littlebear; 04-02-2020 at 09:14 AM..
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      04-02-2020, 08:43 AM   #807
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Can you guys take 2A, covid and holier than thou discussions elsewhere?

OP, re dashcams, I was referring to driver dashcams, not police bodycams. They say recordings have little to no weight in court, but curious if they every been useful for cops, in whatever case or situation.

P.S. My insurance was grateful for video when someone sideswiped my mirror and then tried to milk insurance for his fender repair.
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      04-02-2020, 08:45 AM   #808
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Can you guys take 2A, covid and holier than thou discussions elsewhere?

OP, re dashcams, I was referring to driver dashcams, not police bodycams. They say recordings have little to no weight in court, but curious if they every been useful for cops, in whatever case or situation.
They hold a ton of weight. Yes, they are a two dimensional perspective of a three dimensional environment, but cases have been won and lost based on cam footage.
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      04-02-2020, 09:44 AM   #809
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Dash cams or more specifically, body worn cams, are good and bad. They are great in terms of combatting claims of mistreatment, force overreach, etc. They are absolutely horrible in terms of privacy violations (...they record 24/7, even when they aren't "activated", so anything you say to your partners in private, on a telephone while wearing one, etc. is subject to be heard, at least for a period of time), causing officer hesitation, making hindsight judgments on fluid, rapidly evolving situations, etc. I would rather NOT have them.
How do you feel about gun cams? As far as I'm aware, it's a new technology that hasn't been widely adopted (yet at least), and in the unfortunate situation you absolutely need to unholster, it starts recording from the POV of the gun.
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      04-02-2020, 10:13 AM   #810
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I am very happy to hear that. Thanks!

"Who gets all this money?

Religious Organizations receive nearly one in three dollars – a total of about $123 billion in 2016.
Education receives the second largest amount -- nearly $60 billion in 2016. About three out of four education dollars go to 4-year colleges and universities (according to Indiana University’s Lilly Family School of Philanthropy).
Human Services received nearly $47 billion.
Health Organizations received about $33 billion, or 8% of the total.
Public-Sector Benefit Organizations (such as United Ways and Jewish Federations) received nearly $30 billion.
International Affairs received just over $22 billion.
Arts and Cultural Organizations received about $18 billion.
Environmental and Animal Organizations received about $11 billion."


Murf
the thing about charity is that folks get to donate to the charity of their choice.
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      04-02-2020, 10:22 AM   #811
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the thing about charity is that folks get to donate to the charity of their choice.
Yeah, really! The lower levels of our education system don't seem to get much.

Murf
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      04-02-2020, 10:35 AM   #812
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Yeah, really! The lower levels of our education system don't seem to get much.

Murf
Maybe your schools could have used that E46!!
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      04-02-2020, 10:38 AM   #813
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Yeah, really! The lower levels of our education system don't seem to get much.

Murf
So if I understand you, you are suggesting that charitable donations be directed by government? So I have taken some of the money I didn't spend on guns over the years and donated to charities that I felt strongly about, are you suggesting that government or some other regulating body should take my money and direct it to the charity of their choice? That sounds like taxes to me, don't we already have that model. Because if my donations are directed by someone else and are going to a charity I don't want them to go to then guess what, I won't make those donations.

It's too bad the range is closed because of the outbreak because the sun is shinning and it'd be a great day to go shooting.
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      04-02-2020, 10:50 AM   #814
Sedan_Clan
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Dash cams or more specifically, body worn cams, are good and bad. They are great in terms of combatting claims of mistreatment, force overreach, etc. They are absolutely horrible in terms of privacy violations (...they record 24/7, even when they aren't "activated", so anything you say to your partners in private, on a telephone while wearing one, etc. is subject to be heard, at least for a period of time), causing officer hesitation, making hindsight judgments on fluid, rapidly evolving situations, etc. I would rather NOT have them.
How do you feel about gun cams? As far as I'm aware, it's a new technology that hasn't been widely adopted (yet at least), and in the unfortunate situation you absolutely need to unholster, it starts recording from the POV of the gun.
In my opinion gun cams are even worse than the body cams. I hope those never fully catch on.
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