[orkinos]

This will come back and hit all of us as further increased prices!

[sittingmongoose]

Originally Posted by jmack123

I would say you can use a Tesla Supercharger? You do realize the Supercharger network is ALREADY available across the country including significant coverage in rural areas right? Again, facts over feelings. The FACT is that as of mid-2024, nearly all vehicles will be able to access all Superchargers including in rural areas.

Oh cool! So I can buy a new i7 today and drive it down to albama from Philly and charge at all the superchargers today??

I’m obviously being vicisious, but my point stands. All of these “solutions” aren’t in place yet. Until they are, it’s still a problem. You can hand wave the problem and say it will be solved in 12 months. We don’t know that. We won’t know that until it’s done.

[exokiss]

Wonder where Volkswagen and Toyota are in this partnership.

[IcEWoLF]

I’m going to stick with ICE cars until the charging network becomes more reliable.

Right now outside of Tesla they are meh at best.

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by VirtualGuitars

The fact that EV makers did not get together and come up with a common, global standard is just ridiculous. It’s like we’re repeating the different electricity standards and having to have an adapter for every country you visit. #MassiveFail

A "global" standard for EV is really not necessary.
How many cars drive across the Atlantic or the Pacific? Hardly any.
Maybe more economical for the manufacturers, but won't benefit car buyers much.
And most cars won't be legal in the foreign country even if they share the same EV plug - headlights, rear turn signal color, rear fog lights etc.
As long as there is a common standard in each continent, it would be fine - unlike electricity and appliance, your car doesn't usually travel out of the continent with you.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by sittingmongoose

The problem is not major city coverage, it’s suburbs and rural areas. And you can bet your ass that this new venture isn’t racing to build ev chargers in the middle of Iowa. They will be building out in cities that already have coverage from everyone else.

Originally Posted by jmack123

You do realize the vast majority (80%) of people live in big cities?
So we have to figure out how to solve for the other 20%? Doesn’t sound like a huge problem...

Companies are adopting Tesla’s NACS as the de-facto standard. They’ll therefore have to integrate with Tesla’s software suite which will be native to GM, Ford, Volvo etc. vehicles starting 2025. Problem solved. In the meantime (around mid-2024), all those companies will have access to ALL Superchargers for vehicles without the native plug.

There are a couple different dynamics getting thrown around here... The first is that the NACS de-facto standardization is only the plug. It is not the infrastructure for handling authorization, payments, etc. - not even the stations.

Next, the DC fast charging thing is mostly solving for road trips. Stations in urban, suburban, and rural areas would not adding a lot of value. Owners would mostly be charging at home, work, or the gym on L2 chargers in daily driving and almost never need a DC fast charger.

The need is along major thoroughfares. They are likely to be rural and urban, but not suburban. The idea is that major driving routes have enough stops along the way that people can do extended trips in an EV.

This JV, even if it uses NACS, would not have to integrate with Tesla's back end and APIs in any way. They can all do their own thing. The only integration necessary is for the Tesla Superchargers to recognize your non-Tesla VIN for charging at one of their stations. You can do that right now at any of the Magic Dock stations.

So...

• BMW and this JV could adopt NACS any time without any agreement with Tesla. SAE is set to standardize it as the J3400 connector. That would mean that they could put the connectors on their cars and JV charging stations whenever.
• NACS just improves the connector and gets us away from the CSS/J1772 debacle.
• This JV puts $1B of DC fast chargers in the wild. They can be CCS/J1772, or NACS, or both. Doesn't matter.
• These new JV DCFCs don't need to talk to Tesla at all. Drivers just need to have an account with the JV like you do now on any other charging network.
• The bigger issue that this does not explicitly address are dumb things like:
  • Cars with ports in poor locations
  • Unreliable stations in general (cords, physical equipment, 800V charging, high-current charging at 400V, etc.)
  • Unreliable authorization and payments systems in everything but Superchargers
  • Chargers that put out super low charge rates for no known reason
  • Incorrect charger availability status integrated with route planning apps

[VirtualGuitars]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

A "global" standard for EV is really not necessary.
How many cars drive across the Atlantic or the Pacific? Hardly any.
And most cars won't be legal in the foreign country even if they share the same EV plug - headlights, rear turn signal color, rear fog lights etc.
As long as there is a common standard in each continent, it would be fine - unlike electricity and appliance, your car doesn't usually travel out of the continent with you.

I think you’re missing the point. Of course I’m not talking about taking your vehicle from country to country. We could’ve avoided the situation we’re in right now by having one global standard. Now it’s Tesla vs. everyone else in the United States. Utterly ridiculous and backwards thinking.

[Edwardsc1]

Originally Posted by jmack123

Will be funny to hear the “but there’s no reliable charging infrastructure” crowd that we all heard said earlier this year wouldn’t be in place for years.
Given this news and the other bombshell that many manufacturers have signed on to access Tesla’s network, it looks like this problem has been solved within a year from their prophetic prediction.

That's funny considering several states have had to ask people not to charge their electric cars because the power grid can't handle it Gotta love that half these "eco friendly" charging stations are powered by diesel generators.

[moesess34]

Originally Posted by sittingmongoose

Oh cool! So I can buy a new i7 today and drive it down to albama from Philly and charge at all the superchargers today??

I’m obviously being vicisious, but my point stands. All of these “solutions” aren’t in place yet. Until they are, it’s still a problem. You can hand wave the problem and say it will be solved in 12 months. We don’t know that. We won’t know that until it’s done.

I’ve done the drive from nyc to Georgia in my bmw ix. Stopped 2 times less than I would have in a Tesla. It was pretty easy. Only needed 3 stops for a 12 hour drive

[Paladin1]

Originally Posted by ricerboi

Initially yes, but if the goal is widespread EV adoption, there needs to be accessible DCFC for those with apartments/condos without parking/EV stalls and rely on street parking. Let’s face it, US power/charging infrastructure isn’t gonna be up to speed anytime in the next decade, but at least more people are trying. Doesn’t hurt to have multiple brands of fuel/charging like ICE.

Agree, there needs to be some accommodation ultimately for inner city dwellers for global BEV acceptance and adaptation. But frankly, if you live in downtown DC or Chicago and you have no charging option but public charging, at this stage you need to find another mode of personal transportation. For one thing it would likely be close to the cost of owning and running an ICE vehicle, and not as convenient. For another (having lived and worked in DC), public transportation is awesome, and I wouldn't think of driving just about anything but a broken-down junker in the middle of the city, ever. Later, BEVs for all, yes. But fix the great, empty, middle of the country first (and even N to S coastal routes). That's where people journey 1,000 miles to see Gramma.

[moesess34]

Originally Posted by IcEWoLF

I’m going to stick with ICE cars until the charging network becomes more reliable.

Right now outside of Tesla they are meh at best.

If you charge at home the only time you need a supercharger is when you go on vacation or roadtrip.

[Quadruple VANOS]

This initiative seems massively far from these automotive manufacturers normal scope of work. Sounds like a desperate attempt to save their investments in EVs. Good luck with that.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

A "global" standard for EV is really not necessary.
How many cars drive across the Atlantic or the Pacific? Hardly any.
Maybe more economical for the manufacturers, but won't benefit car buyers much.
And most cars won't be legal in the foreign country even if they share the same EV plug - headlights, rear turn signal color, rear fog lights etc.
As long as there is a common standard in each continent, it would be fine - unlike electricity and appliance, your car doesn't usually travel out of the continent with you.

I don't think we are getting to a global standard any time soon. Most folks don't realize that we already have multiple standards in plan, and some of those are unlikely to change any time soon.

• Europe = CCS 2
• China = GB/T
• Japan = CHAdeMO
• United States = NACS (de-facto) with a J1772/CCS 1 remnant.
• Canada = TBD, could stay with CCS 1 or follow US to NACS

Most cars are already architected so that they can accommodate whatever plug is appropriate for the market.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by orkinos

This will come back and hit all of us as further increased prices!

Absolutely. You KNOW user fees aren’t supporting this 100%. This investment will be funded by every person buying anything from these manufacturers.

[JMD]

Originally Posted by grueber

Curious how the stalls look with the different charging port locations. Maybe they can all agree how dumb it is to have the ports in different locations on an EV.

Rivian, Tesla, and VW did the Charge Port locations right!

One would think Mfrs would install a charge port at opposite ends of BEVs,...example: Left Front corner / Right Rear corner.

[BMWEVGuy]

So does this mean that BMW can tell it's customers to wait for years and not join NACS as others like Mercedes have already done.

Or will it let it's customers enjoy seamless charging at a Tesla Supercharger by entering into some agreement with Musk while this new network becomes viable option.

[FultonMDUSA]

Originally Posted by Paladin1

They certainly have the resources to do it. Whether they have the will and expertise remains a huge question mark, and whether they can do it over a few years or a few decades. And stop putting DC chargers in the middle of NYC. Put them in places where people actually travel long distances - like, you know - where highway gas stations and rest stops already exist! For a reason.

I read a very long time ago that McDonalds wasn't really primarily a fast food company, but its success was in large part to being a sophisticated real estate company. Their staff had developed the contacts and connections and expertise over decades to identify and acquire the best locations for their fast food businesses.

Based on this theory, I have doubts this new venture will succeed anytime soon. If they really wanted to succeed, they should partner with another company with an extensive real estate acquisition pipeline.

[IAmSpeed]

Someone needs to step out and take down Tesla's, cheers BMW!

[IcewaterPete]

You all do realize that there are now over 2.0MM all electric cars on the road in the USA. So go ahead and add those 30,000 chargers to the network of 17,000 Tesla superchargers and then get behind the other 42 cars waiting ahead of you to charge if they accept your kind and if they actually place them anywhere outside the major metro areas in the direction you are heading on the 4.1MM miles of highways. Meanwhile, I’ve got a cold one in my hand sailing on the lake. See you all tomorrow when you finally get here! Cheers!

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by IcewaterPete

You all do realize that there are now over 2.0MM all electric cars on the road in the USA. So go ahead and add those 30,000 chargers to the network of 17,000 Tesla superchargers and then get behind the other 42 cars waiting ahead of you to charge if they accept your kind

You do realize that majority of the charging is done at home, right?
We don't need as many charging stations as gas stations which EVERY ICE car must visit regularly.
Many EV owners never need to visit any public charging stations at all.

[VirtualGuitars]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

You do realize that majority of the charging is done at home, right?
We don't need as many charging stations as gas stations which EVERY ICE car must visit regularly.
Many EV owners never need to visit any public charging stations at all.

+1. I’ve had my iX M60 since the very beginning of January, and I have not used a public charger one single time. Not even once. For the few times I’ve taken it out of town, my friends had chargers at their house. As I said earlier in the thread, I didn’t buy it to save the planet, but I am certainly in love with the convenience of charging at home and not having to deal with oil changes or other fluid swaps.

[Paladin1]

My iX will travel well over 300 miles in the balmy Summer, so yeah, several lakes in that 150+ mile round-trip range. It'll cost me less than 7 bucks to go to the far side of that and back. And I won't need to stop at all on the way, so I'll have the boat trimmed, hot dogs on and a cold one ready for you when you get there.