[BritInTheUSA]

Originally Posted by deutsch100

2024 Consumer Reports (who have never been "kind" to BMW)

BMW #1
Kia #7
Hyundai #10

Just sayin'

Yeah I do not think Hyundai should earn top spot for CR. Mine has been fairly reliable but the one issue it did have (failed brake caliper) meant I lost what tiny amount of faith I had in their dealers. If you have a good dealer then great, otherwise they are a nightmare. My BMW dealer locally is just ok. Lexus is where it is at there.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by BritInTheUSA

Yeah I do not think Hyundai should earn top spot for CR. Mine has been fairly reliable but the one issue it did have (failed brake caliper) meant I lost what tiny amount of faith I had in their dealers. If you have a good dealer then great, otherwise they are a nightmare. My BMW dealer locally is just ok. Lexus is where it is at there.

I have picked up that this definitely varies by market. I live in a place that is highly competitive, and most dealerships have great reputations, Hyundai and Kia included. Probably the worst dealership in town (that I know about) is a BMW dealer. But we have 3 more that are all fantastic.

In my household's combined 14 years of Hyundai ownership, we have only had 1 unscheduled service, and that was not a total surprise to me. The rest was just routine maintenance (oil changes and tire rotations). They handled that one great (it was warranty at 5 years), so I have nothing but high praise.

[Windshieldfarmer]

Originally Posted by BritInTheUSA

Yeah I do not think Hyundai should earn top spot for CR. Mine has been fairly reliable but the one issue it did have (failed brake caliper) meant I lost what tiny amount of faith I had in their dealers. If you have a good dealer then great, otherwise they are a nightmare. My BMW dealer locally is just ok. Lexus is where it is at there.

BMW might be rated #1, but my IX is my first new vehicle that became inoperative for an extended period (two months) because of the inability to source a part (coolant valve). In comparison, I’ve owned several Hyundai products that have been totally trouble free including a Sonata, purchased new, daughter drove for 130,000 miles with only routine maintenance. Also had Genesis G80, which was also trouble free for the duration of its three year lease. At work, before I retired last year, I had my facilities guys purchase Hyundai vehicles for fleet use. Again, trouble free. Nothing against BMW, but reliability would not be a big concern with the Hyundai brand IMHO.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by Windshieldfarmer

BMW might be rated #1, but my IX is my first new vehicle that became inoperative for an extended period (two months) because of the inability to source a part (coolant valve). In comparison, I’ve owned several Hyundai products that have been totally trouble free including a Sonata, purchased new, daughter drove for 130,000 miles with only routine maintenance. Also had Genesis G80, which was also trouble free for the duration of its three year lease. At work, before I retired last year, I had my facilities guys purchase Hyundai vehicles for fleet use. Again, trouble free. Nothing against BMW, but reliability would not be a big concern with the Hyundai brand IMHO.

I'm not bashing Kia/Hyundai eGMP cars by any means but if you owned one of those from the last few years you would have also dealt with a rash of issues with 12v battery depletion, and a spate of L2 charging issues from overheating at the charge port that was never really resolved to a recall for an ICCU that is only now being made available for the US.

My point is every manufacturer has their share of issues. I will never buy a Toyota again because of multiple bad past experiences that was never resolved. One of the defects caused premature tire wear after about 18k miles and Toyota's fix was to offer a one time tire replacement as a result of a class action settlement.

[SteVTEC]

Not particularly impressed with the highway range of the EV9 (C&D got 240 miles at 75 mph), which is definitely going to go down with a full load of passengers and cargo, and then some battery degradation also. Only about 2-2.5 hours of endurance per leg, or less in unfavorable conditions. But the 800V architecture lets it charge nearly twice as fast as a BMW iX, from what I've been reading. If ABRP numbers are accurate, it would actually get me to Florida and back quicker than a BMW iX. An extra stop for charging because of less range per charge, but it only takes half as long to charge on the 800v architecture. Of course, dependent largely on charger availability, quality, reliability etc.

But will it blow up in your face? Who knows. I don't trust ANY new technology (and not BMW either), but I do find the EV9 very interesting because it's the first one with three usable rows of space plus cargo area that I could actually haul my family and dogs around with, on the typical trips we go on. I see them popping up all over our area now. Very interesting vehicle.

[ricerboi]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

Not particularly impressed with the highway range of the EV9 (C&D got 240 miles at 75 mph), which is definitely going to go down with a full load of passengers and cargo, and then some battery degradation also. Only about 2-2.5 hours of endurance per leg, or less in unfavorable conditions. But the 800V architecture lets it charge nearly twice as fast as a BMW iX, from what I've been reading. If ABRP numbers are accurate, it would actually get me to Florida and back quicker than a BMW iX. An extra stop for charging because of less range per charge, but it only takes half as long to charge on the 800v architecture. Of course, dependent largely on charger availability, quality, reliability etc.

But will it blow up in your face? Who knows. I don't trust ANY new technology (and not BMW either), but I do find the EV9 very interesting because it's the first one with three usable rows of space plus cargo area that I could actually haul my family and dogs around with, on the typical trips we go on. I see them popping up all over our area now. Very interesting vehicle.

Not necessarily. The R1S is probably slightly better as a 3-row but in the same price range. I test drove one and while the ride quality and the way it put down power wasn’t great, the interior was, in Rivian’s own functional way. eGMP stuff is more passenger-comfort than Rivian-functional and each has its own charm. I’ve charged at an EA with both R1S and EV9 next to each other so it was an interesting side-by-side.

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

Not particularly impressed with the highway range of the EV9 (C&D got 240 miles at 75 mph), which is definitely going to go down with a full load of passengers and cargo, and then some battery degradation also. Only about 2-2.5 hours of endurance per leg, or less in unfavorable conditions. But the 800V architecture lets it charge nearly twice as fast as a BMW iX, from what I've been reading. If ABRP numbers are accurate, it would actually get me to Florida and back quicker than a BMW iX. An extra stop for charging because of less range per charge, but it only takes half as long to charge on the 800v architecture. Of course, dependent largely on charger availability, quality, reliability etc.

Bjorn Nyland's recent 10%-100% charging test had the EV9 hitting 80% at the same time the iX hit 70%. By the time the iX hit 80% the EV9 was at 85%. Not much difference when you consider the iX has a 10% larger battery pack and 14% more range.

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

But will it blow up in your face? Who knows. I don't trust ANY new technology (and not BMW either), but I do find the EV9 very interesting because it's the first one with three usable rows of space plus cargo area that I could actually haul my family and dogs around with, on the typical trips we go on. I see them popping up all over our area now. Very interesting vehicle.

EVs do not blow up, explode, etc. They experience thermal runaway which takes some time. The great advantage to EVs is that occupants will have plenty of warning and opportunity to exit the vehicle before flames appear. Fires in EVs are far less common than in ICE vehicles.

[moesess34]

Originally Posted by ricerboi

Not necessarily. The R1S is probably slightly better as a 3-row but in the same price range. I test drove one and while the ride quality and the way it put down power wasn’t great, the interior was, in Rivian’s own functional way. eGMP stuff is more passenger-comfort than Rivian-functional and each has its own charm. I’ve charged at an EA with both R1S and EV9 next to each other so it was an interesting side-by-side.

Not really the same range. I got quoted 63k and basically $600 a month lease for a fully loaded ev9 GT. The same Rivian is 1k per month

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by moesess34

Not really the same range. I got quoted 63k and basically $600 a month lease for a fully loaded ev9 GT. The same Rivian is 1k per month

The Rivian is a hell of a lot more fun to drive than a Kia EV9, that's for sure! You can also take it places that would break an EV9 within a few minutes. Rivians are meant for people who enjoy off-roading. The EV9 demographic appears to be soccer moms.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

Bjorn Nyland's recent 10%-100% charging test had the EV9 hitting 80% at the same time the iX hit 70%. By the time the iX hit 80% the EV9 was at 85%. Not much difference when you consider the iX has a 10% larger battery pack and 14% more range.

EVs do not blow up, explode, etc. They experience thermal runaway which takes some time. The great advantage to EVs is that occupants will have plenty of warning and opportunity to exit the vehicle before flames appear. Fires in EVs are far less common than in ICE vehicles.

I meant that figuratively and not literally. Hyundai/Kia have a terrible track record for quality and reliability, and have a decades long history of going above and beyond to cover up known defects and issues for as long as possible. A nice as many of them look and drive, Hyundai/Kias are about the last I would trust technology wise, but at least they're highly innovative, which I appreciate it.

ABRP is showing me 1hr 22min charge time on an EV9 eAWD vs an iX xDrive50 with a 2hrs 2min charge time on a DC to JAX trip I have setup, and the EV9 getting in 30+ minutes earlier.

BS or no?

The 13h 30min is BMW iX xDrive50.
The 12h 56min is the EV9 eAWD.

[moesess34]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

The Rivian is a hell of a lot more fun to drive than a Kia EV9, that's for sure! You can also take it places that would break an EV9 within a few minutes. Rivians are meant for people who enjoy off-roading. The EV9 demographic appears to be soccer moms.

The cars are for different people. Of course the faster car is more fun. But, for $600 a month it’s a great deal. Don’t let the name Kia fool you. It’s a very good car.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by moesess34

Not really the same range. I got quoted 63k and basically $600 a month lease for a fully loaded ev9 GT. The same Rivian is 1k per month

Apples and oranges. You can get a comparably equipped Rivian for mid to low $600/mo on a 36/12 lease and given that I would take the Rivian over the EV9 every single day.

The top GT-Line EV9 is comparably equipped to a Dual Motor AWD R1S with the standard battery which puts both vehicles at just under $75,000 MSRP. You can probably get a better price if you find a Kia dealer willing to mark down the EV9 but I'm going off the MSRP. These are different vehicles and they're also different from the iX. The downside to the EV9 is its significantly decanted software suite compared to the Rivian. Both are good options but intended for different use cases. I would take the R1S over the EV9 if we're talking that $75k price target. If we're talking a lower price point then the EV9 might be a good choice.

[moesess34]

Originally Posted by Pictor

Apples and oranges. You can get a comparably equipped Rivian for mid to low $600/mo on a 36/12 lease and given that I would take the Rivian over the EV9 every single day.

The top GT-Line EV9 is comparably equipped to a Dual Motor AWD R1S with the standard battery which puts both vehicles at just under $75,000 MSRP. You can probably get a better price if you find a Kia dealer willing to mark down the EV9 but I'm going off the MSRP. These are different vehicles and they're also different from the iX. The downside to the EV9 is its significantly decanted software suite compared to the Rivian. Both are good options but intended for different use cases. I would take the R1S over the EV9 if we're talking that $75k price target. If we're talking a lower price point then the EV9 might be a good choice.

Find my any Rivian Leasing for $600 with nothing down I’ve found a bunch of ev9 GT’ s selling for under 65k. The problem is pretty much every ev is overpriced. I can go lease a Audi etron GT for 1 year with nothing down for $800. That’s a car that’s $120k. Which is bonkers.
I would take the ev9 over the Rivian. The Rivian software is ok and it doesn’t even have drivers assistant that works on most roads. I say this as someone who almost brought a Rivian a few months ago. I’ve done a lot of research.

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

I meant that figuratively and not literally. Hyundai/Kia have a terrible track record for quality and reliability, and have a decades long history of going above and beyond to cover up known defects and issues for as long as possible. A nice as many of them look and drive, Hyundai/Kias are about the last I would trust technology wise, but at least they're highly innovative, which I appreciate it.

ABRP is showing me 1hr 22min charge time on an EV9 eAWD vs an iX xDrive50 with a 2hrs 2min charge time on a DC to JAX trip I have setup, and the EV9 getting in 30+ minutes earlier.

BS or no?

The 13h 30min is BMW iX xDrive50.
The 12h 56min is the EV9 eAWD.

:

I can only speak to the charging test I saw between an Audi Q4 e-tron, EV9, iX 50, and Fisker Ocean. Based on that comparison, the iX and EV9 were neck-and-neck and certainly within 5% of each other at the same moment in time. Maybe I'm missing something?

Here's the video:

Has Kyle w/ Out of Spec done a road trip with the EV9? He did one with the iX some months ago. It would make for a good comparison.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

:

I can only speak to the charging test I saw between an Audi Q4 e-tron, EV9, iX 50, and Fisker Ocean. Based on that comparison, the iX and EV9 were neck-and-neck and certainly within 5% of each other at the same moment in time. Maybe I'm missing something?

Here's the video:

Has Kyle w/ Out of Spec done a road trip with the EV9? He did one with the iX some months ago. It would make for a good comparison.

No idea where ABRP is getting their charging rate data from. I assume it's from their own users. I'll take a guess that when the iX gets "DCFC-jailed", the much slower charging is polluting the data and bringing the averages down, when maybe that's not a factor most of the time?

If I can get from home base down to JAX on an hour and change of charging when we'd be stopping cumulatively about that long anyways it could work, but not if it would be 2+ hours of charging. Too much, and with how traffic stacks up getting into Florida, it would really turn into a two day trip each way.

[exxxviii]

Genesis just put the world on notice with their 2026 GV90 on their next gen eM platform, coming next year. Super plus 3-row SUV. It is much bigger than I would want, but I could be persuaded by a next gen GV70 or GV80.

https://www.caranddriver.com/genesis/gv90

[Young04]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

Genesis just put the world on notice with their 2026 GV90 on their next gen eM platform, coming next year. Super plus 3-row SUV. It is much bigger than I would want, but I could be persuaded by a next gen GV70 or GV80.

https://www.caranddriver.com/genesis/gv90

I'm eying this. I love my iX M60, but we really could use a three row vehicle. I don't like any of the current offerings. Lucid Gravity has potential, but I don't like the motor whine in the Air and I suspect the Gravity will get it. iX7 is like 4 year away basically.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by Young04

I'm eying this. I love my iX M60, but we really could use a three row vehicle. I don't like any of the current offerings. Lucid Gravity has potential, but I don't like the motor whine in the Air and I suspect the Gravity will get it. iX7 is like 4 year away basically.

That motor whine! When I test drove an Air I asked if it could turned off. I was shocked at it. Terrible.

[Young04]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

That motor whine! When I test drove an Air I asked if it could turned off. I was shocked at it. Terrible.

Yeah, I don't think it's an added sound, at least for the front motors. The front motors make that noise as part of its normal operation. Apparently the rear motors don't and the RWD Airs are silent. The hallmarks of EVs are instant torque and silent operation. You cannot mess with those.

[JSTARR]

Thanks for the intelligent reviews & discussion on the EV9. It's not my cup of tea, but I have family who are looking to go EV and need 7 seats & space for toys & sports gear etc. I'll suggest they go check one out. They may like it. They've been waiting over a year for some Volvo/Geely product that never arrives. They talk about car safety metrics.

I haven't seen anything that comes close for me to my iX. I'll see what's happening at BMW in 2028 when the lease is done. Till then the iX, X3 & Tacoma will do us just fine.
I do wish the iX sunroof & front seats were more like the X3's. I open it's top venting as long as there's no rain, and the milky feel and lack of opening of the iX roof baffles me.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by Young04

Yeah, I don't think it's an added sound, at least for the front motors. The front motors make that noise as part of its normal operation. Apparently the rear motors don't and the RWD Airs are silent. The hallmarks of EVs are instant torque and silent operation. You cannot mess with those.

Electric motor whine is not a pleasant sound (to most people anyway) and should not make its way into the cabin unless you are talking about a hardcore performance vehicle/race car where such things are sacrificed in the name of performance.

One of the EVs I test drove with my brother a couple of years ago had rear motor whine that was very obvious. I had already heard about it and was expecting it but it surprised him a little since others we had tried, even from the same brand, did not have this issue. It wasn't a showstopper for him personally because if you had the radio on it drowned it out, but from the rear seats it was still annoying.

[ricerboi]

Originally Posted by Young04

I'm eying this. I love my iX M60, but we really could use a three row vehicle. I don't like any of the current offerings. Lucid Gravity has potential, but I don't like the motor whine in the Air and I suspect the Gravity will get it. iX7 is like 4 year away basically.

I just looked up the GV90 and WOW. If they can do 90% of what was presented, it’s a slam dunk as there’s really nothing in the SUV/minivan class with a true 3-row config that’s decent outside the HMG World. As discussed the R1S has too harsh a ride with not enough passenger comfort features for a family like the EV9/GV90 class. Again, different use cases for different buyers. The Escalade IQ isn’t out yet but I don’t have a lot of faith in GM.

At the end of the day I would probably hold out for the iX7 as I’m just a BMW guy. That would translate to the iX being at 180k ish miles by then haha.