[Pictor]

Originally Posted by Tch-Nrd

Are people really bragging about getting 300 miles before needing to recharge?
I hope that's not a direct comparison to ICE BMWs?
If so, I get just over 600 miles (at over 70mph) in my X5 before I need to refill.

It's not a brag but more a reality that humans need to stop for breaks. It's rare that I go 3-4 hours on a caffeine fueled road trip without a bio break especially if I have passengers. I don't drive 70mph and still get 300miles or more on the iX. Yes, my X5 could go longer distances but I couldn't. My M850 gets less range than the iX but in either case, I would inevitably need to find a restroom for someone before the car needed a fill-up. These days, that stop is typically at a crappy EA station at a Walmart and I will top off with electricity for 15 minutes while everyone visits the restroom. 15-20 minutes is typically all I need for topping off before reaching a destination longer than the 300+ miles I get in the iX. Then I would plug into a L2 dispenser while the car would be sitting unused anyway. The hypothetical scenario of 500+ mile trips in a single day is not common for most people. The majority of the time the car charges while you're at your destination (home, work, hotel, VRBO, family, vacation house, etc.)

Going from an ICE car to a BEV is different in perhaps surprising ways. Range isn't the end all. When I had an M Roadster that thing would need fuel every 200-225 miles because of a small tank and my aggressive driving but it was a different kind of car intended for a different use case. With an EV I care more about the (real world) charge curve and daily driving dynamics. The iX is good or okay - it could be better (I have a long line of BMW's I hold my bar against). I don't care if the peak charge that it can accept is 195kW (okay I care a little) but I certainly do care about where in the curve it drops below about 125kW which is when I normally get impatient and move on. In comparison, the Lyriq is comparable to the iX on paper but it has a pretty poor charge curve as it comes off peak and drops below 100kW around 40% SoC. This is an example of the learning curve and differences that people need to consider in an EV. Yes an X5 would fill up faster, no one would argue that. But you also pay a price for that privilege and if you're like me and my family, you're still making stops along the way. My iX's 300+ mile range costs me $11 for a full tank at home, and my M850i is closer to $100 at the gas station which I would need to visit weekly if I used it as much as my iX.

[drbluedevil]

Originally Posted by ilya4min

The US only has 145K gas stations, and that includes some stations that are not for cars. 30K is a large number. We should expect that Tesla will continue to scale up, and some gas companies will soon start adding chargers as well.

It's looking like in 5-7 years, EV chargers will become as prominent as gas stations today, if not more prominent. At that point, you'll stop adjusting your route based on charging, and will stop to charge whenever you want to stop for a restroom break, a snack, etc. People will pick charging stations based on the quality of a shop, a loyalty program, etc. - not based on the wait time or whether the charger works at all.

It'll be much easier to charge in rural areas than finding a fuel today, because you can install a solar-powered EV charger anywhere in the country and it'll work. No need to think about regular fuel deliveries, paying an attendant, etc.

ICE car enthusiasts will continue to enjoy their cars for a while, just like people still enjoy horseback riding or landline phones. It'll even become cooler to own an ICE car over time, so if you have something fashionable, definitely hold on to it!

Sure, but it takes 5 minutes to add 300-500 miles of range at a gas station, and gas stations work 99.9% of the time.

EV stations are worse in each metric by orders of magnitude.

For sure, most owners charge at home typically, including me. The only reason I'm not concerned about the charging network is that I have an ICE vehicle as well.

[Paladin1]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Comments like this ignore the reality that a very large percentage of people simply cannot charge at home, work or anywhere else they park regularly. EVs won’t become the norm without delivering these drivers who can’t charge at home a charging solution that at least close to as time efficient as refueling ICE.

Actually, the DOE says that 80% of EV owners charge at home, so only 20% of current owners don't have that ability or choose not to. That discounts the fact that some may have chosen NOT to purchase an EV because they couldn't charge at home, but that's an unknown right now. There is certainly also a percentage who chose not to purchase an EV even though they could charge at home. The data we have says, that of people who decided to purchase an EV, 80% of them can charge at home.

[VirtualGuitars]

Originally Posted by AlpineBoost

Fair enough

My similar comment was just to say that I've never seen that issue over a significant amount of time. I'm not anti EV, actually excited for what could be, but nothing has really piqued my interest as of yet. There's plenty of time.

In general, and I don’t mean you here, people don’t like change. EVs are an Industry game changer and disruptor for the oil and gas companies. I’m not anti-ICE vehicles. I miss my 5 series so much, I called my dealer today and asked them to put me on the list for a 2025 M5 G90 allocation which starts production next July.

If you travel a lot, I can see where having an EV would be a massive concern due to the inconvenience of charging locations and charging times compared to gas stations. Obviously that’s going to change over the next five years when it will be much harder to buy a new vehicle that runs on oil and gas. It will get better. Like it or not, it’s happening.

And I apologize for repeating myself, but I’m not one of those that bought an EV to save the planet. I bought it for the self-driving tech which I absolutely love. Charging at home is super convenient. No oil changes. No transmission fluid changes The only maintenance required is the occasional cabin filter, wiper blades, and brake pads. And because of EV regenerative braking, you don’t need to use your brakes nearly as much.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Comments like this ignore the reality that a very large percentage of people simply cannot charge at home, work or anywhere else they park regularly. EVs won’t become the norm without delivering these drivers who can’t charge at home a charging solution that at least close to as time efficient as refueling ICE.

100% correct. And that's why public charging is important including installing L2 in multidwelling units, work locations and even street side lamp post L2 charging.

But you're totally missing the point on comparing time efficiency in charging vs refueling ICE. Here's another way to think about this, imagine you could park your ICE car at work, at the mall, at the cinema, or at the doctors office and fill up your ICE while you went about your day while your car was parked and not being used.

For the minority that needs to drive several hundred miles daily and don't have access to an L2 EVSE at home or work, then a gas car is perfectly okay too. A gas car is also perfectly okay if you like the sound and smell of an ICE engine - I totally get it. We still have options.

[FultonMDUSA]

Originally Posted by Tch-Nrd

Are people really bragging about getting 300 miles before needing to recharge?
I hope that's not a direct comparison to ICE BMWs?
If so, I get just over 600 miles (at over 70mph) in my X5 before I need to refill.

I literally remember the last time I filled up an X5. It was so memorable, I even took a picture of the event!

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by jmack123

It will be solved mid-2024 when ALL Tesla Superchargers are opened to GM, Volvo, Polestar, Ford etc.
in terms of whether there will be challenges initially - probably. I assume there will be APIs translating from each automaker to the Superchargers at least until 2025 when the NACS plugs are native to these vehicles.
With that said, once the vehicles are built natively with NACS in 2025, the problem is effectively solved.

Does this mean this new collaboration will be compatible with the Tesla network. If that’s the case does this becomes the default global standard? Is there nothing like this in Europe?

[VirtualGuitars]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Does this mean this new collaboration will be compatible with the Tesla network. If that’s the case does this becomes the default global standard? Is there nothing like this in Europe?

You obviously did not read the article. Look at bullet point number four.

[SGiXers]

Originally Posted by FultonMDUSA

I literally remember the last time I filled up an X5. It was so memorable, I even took a picture of the event!

LOL. Me too. One for memories and old time sakes.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by JK479

Currently in my home state- we have 16 chargers TOTAL for Tesla in the entire state. It will NOT be solved. You’re full of it. Or you’re unaware of how few chargers there are and how few EVs on the road compared to ICE.

Buddy, seriously get a grip. 99% of the time you charge AT HOME. By the team you need to take your first road trip and actually use a DC fast charger, there will be 50 more DC fast chargers in your area.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by sittingmongoose

Oh cool! So I can buy a new i7 today and drive it down to albama from Philly and charge at all the superchargers today??

I’m obviously being vicisious, but my point stands. All of these “solutions” aren’t in place yet. Until they are, it’s still a problem. You can hand wave the problem and say it will be solved in 12 months. We don’t know that. We won’t know that until it’s done.

First of all let’s get one thing understood since you clearly don’t own an EV and therefore likely have little to no actual experience with the technology - 90-99% of your charging will occur at home. The idea of using a DC fast charger in the first place won’t likely even come into play more than once the first 12 months you own the car. By month 12, you will have even more greatly expanded Supercharger access, Electrify America, EVGo, and this new network mentioned in the article.
I get it, you feel like you it’s unfair EVs are being “forced” on you, but again, the facts don’t care. And the facts indicate that EVs are going to be the new standard likely by 2030 when many automakers say their ICE vehicles will be phased out completely.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Edwardsc1

That's funny considering several states have had to ask people not to charge their electric cars because the power grid can't handle it Gotta love that half these "eco friendly" charging stations are powered by diesel generators.

Originally Posted by exxxviii

There are a couple different dynamics getting thrown around here... The first is that the NACS de-facto standardization is only the plug. It is not the infrastructure for handling authorization, payments, etc. - not even the stations.

Next, the DC fast charging thing is mostly solving for road trips. Stations in urban, suburban, and rural areas would not adding a lot of value. Owners would mostly be charging at home, work, or the gym on L2 chargers in daily driving and almost never need a DC fast charger.

The need is along major thoroughfares. They are likely to be rural and urban, but not suburban. The idea is that major driving routes have enough stops along the way that people can do extended trips in an EV.

This JV, even if it uses NACS, would not have to integrate with Tesla's back end and APIs in any way. They can all do their own thing. The only integration necessary is for the Tesla Superchargers to recognize your non-Tesla VIN for charging at one of their stations. You can do that right now at any of the Magic Dock stations.

So...[LIST][*]BMW and this JV could adopt NACS any time without any agreement with Tesla. SAE is set to standardize it as the J3400 connector. That would mean that they could put the connectors on their cars and JV charging stations whenever.[*]NACS just improves the connector and gets us away from the CSS/J1772 debacle.[*]This JV puts $1B of DC fast chargers in the wild. They can be CCS/J1772, or NACS, or both. Doesn't matter.[*]These new JV DCFCs don't need to talk to Tesla at all. Drivers just need to have an account with the [...]

This is a good summary. One thing I’d slightly disagree with is the reliability of charging stations. Obviously Tesla allowing usage of their stations would improve reliability as their Superchargers tend to be very reliable (at least for Teslas).
I believe this new network however significantly increases investment from established manufacturers and should provide a reliable and throughly vetted system.
One other thing, in at least the case of Volvo/Polestar and Ford, the agreement does allow use of the Supercharger network, so Tesla would indeed be providing the stations. In which case, as the service provider who would need to be paid, their would have to be some integration with their payment systems (or their vendors payment systems - not sure how they have it structured) by the third-party EVs using their network.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Edwardsc1

That's funny considering several states have had to ask people not to charge their electric cars because the power grid can't handle it Gotta love that half these "eco friendly" charging stations are powered by diesel generators.

Gotta love that people like you don’t realize that EVs unlike ICE vehicles can be powered by solar panels.
Gotta love that people like you don’t realize that even IF EVs are exclusively powered by diesel generators, they are now in their first generation, able to use 2-3 times less diesel on average than their ICE counterparts.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by grueber

Curious how the stalls look with the different charging port locations. Maybe they can all agree how dumb it is to have the ports in different locations on an EV.

Overhead like one of those DIY car wash stations, on a swivel would be able to hit any vehicle with any charging location. Might not look as clean though.

[ickyfehmleh]

Originally Posted by jmack123

Buddy, seriously get a grip. 99% of the time you charge AT HOME. By the team you need to take your first road trip and actually use a DC fast charger, there will be 50 more DC fast chargers in your area.

I've visited four EA stations in the month(ish) I've owned my iX50. The first charge was an EA freebie and I got 125kw from the charger. Subsequent charges from EA have all been sh!tshow-esque and limited to 50kw -- and that's when the stations work. Consistently at least one stall is outright broken or otherwise unavailable. This past weekend, two of the four EA chargers were broken which caused an older woman to panic. At another location, one charger was entirely offline (unpowered) while another charger promised a connection but never functioned on my iX, an Ioniq5, or an ID4 (because the logical response to "that unit's broken" is "you're probably not using it right" or "yeah ok sure", only to sheepishly follow up with "so it's AKTCHUALLY broken").

I am vaguely concerned about an upcoming trip to Vegas but utterly terrified of a later trip to Pie Town, New Mexico (yes, it's a real place). Assuming the EA station, rated at 350kw, isn't nerfed to 50kw like my local EA stations, I should arrive in Pie Town at ~50% after a super-fun hour long charging stop -- and I'm sure I'll get stinkeyes from fellow travelers as I'm charging from 20% to 100% because why would anyone need to do that apart from n00bz, lol. If the station is nerfed to 50kw like my local stations, we'll get to explore the area on foot for 2+ hours which will be so very enjoyable. Since there aren't charging stations around Pie Town, if anything goes wrong and I arrive with less than ~40% I can't make it back home without going wildly out of my way (as per ABRP), turning a fun day in Pie Town to an overnight driving tour of New Mexico, which strangely enough is not on my bucket list.

There won't be "50 more DC fast chargers" by the time I take this trip in September. I'm not even sure there will be reliable DCFCs for this trip. My options are: don't go and miss out on pies and quirkiness; admit 'defeat' and rent an ICE vehicle; yolo with backup plans in case things go horribly wrong.

It's OK to acknowledge the charging infrastructure in what could be many parts of the US is abhorrent, road tripping in an EV could be difficult due to said charging infrastructure, and to say there are currently benefits to ICE vehicles over EVs.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by VirtualGuitars

You obviously did not read the article. Look at bullet point number four.

I did read it. I’m not from the US and these standards are meaningless to me. The 4th bullet doesn’t mention Tesla and ‘all EV customers’ could be interpreted as all customers of the seven participating makers. I assume from what I read as an indignant tone that Tesla falls within those standards? I’ll assume a yes, in which case thank you for your clarification. Lucky I’m driving a M3 Touring so it’s all academic to me anyway.

“Charging stations will be accessible to all EV customers, offering both Combined Charging System (CCS) and North American Charging Standard (NACS) connectors”

[Bimmerfun82]

So the EA strategy failed, and I’m not hopeful this conglomerate working together will be successful either. This reveals the seriousness of the problem Tesla has created for both demand for EVs from “Non-tesla” automakers and their inability to realize the potential services revenue.

[mpaasky]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

You do realize that majority of the charging is done at home, right?
We don't need as many charging stations as gas stations which EVERY ICE car must visit regularly.
Many EV owners never need to visit any public charging stations at all.

Also for people who work at companies that provide free charging I just charge it at work when I go in three times a week. Don’t even need to charge at home so my electricity cost is basically zero.

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by Bmwno6

They finally realized that just pumping out cars with a limited and unreliable charging network was not going to cut it and/or that depending on Tesla controlling the charging network might not be that great of an idea. Now lets see if they can make it happen in this decade 😀

Is it not our brilliant government leaders forcing car manufacturers to pump out millions of EV without a power infrastructure in place though? Perhaps they should step up with a plan. But then we the taxpayers regardless of what we are driving would shoulder the financial burden you say? I’m not buying an EV until Ithey give me no choice but I’d rather see them spend my money on that than the hundreds of billions they waste on ridiculous political agenda’s that do more harm than good. .

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

Is it not our brilliant government leaders forcing car manufacturers to pump out millions of EV without a power infrastructure in place though? Perhaps they should step up with a plan. But then we the taxpayers regardless of what we are driving would shoulder the financial burden you say? I’m not buying an EV until Ithey give me no choice but I’d rather see them spend my money on that than the hundreds of billions they waste on ridiculous political agenda’s that do more harm than good. .

You may be waiting forever.

But seriously, the infrastructure is good enough right now to save you $100 - $200 a month in gas in the near term. The question is what happens in the future. The other options are solar and off-peak power storage. Both depend where you live, the incentives, usage and the financial payback period.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by Paladin1

Actually, the DOE says that 80% of EV owners charge at home, so only 20% of current owners don't have that ability or choose not to. That discounts the fact that some may have chosen NOT to purchase an EV because they couldn't charge at home, but that's an unknown right now. There is certainly also a percentage who chose not to purchase an EV even though they could charge at home. The data we have says, that of people who decided to purchase an EV, 80% of them can charge at home.

EVs in the US are about 7% of the total automotive market, so a tiny 20% of that 7% proves not my point. EVs won’t become the norm until public charging is close to as time efficient as refueling ICE.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by jmack123

I get it, you feel like you it’s unfair EVs are being “forced” on you, but again, the facts don’t care. And the facts indicate that EVs are going to be the new standard likely by 2030 when many automakers say their ICE vehicles will be phased out completely.

Good luck trying to force consumer acceptance of such an expensive and utilitarian purchase. These companies still need to build products people actually want to buy.