[Paladin1]

And VAG is reportedly "evaluating"....

https://insideevs.com/news/674485/vo...ging-standard/

[ilya4min]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

... And why BMW needs to sign a deal with Tesla right now. The last time I went to a Tesla meetup and a crowd gathered around my iX. They kept looking at the inside of my doors and I couldn't figure out why! I finally asked and someone said "look at all the rubber seals you have that we don't!"

I'd love to educate Tesla owners about build quality while using a supercharger stall LOL!

I'm still very convinced that BMW signing a deal with Tesla will not change anything besides NACS ports in the car itself. Once adapters are released, they'll work on BMW vehicles. Watched the last Tesla investor day last week, and they're pretty clear they want to open up Superchargers. In EU, over 50% of their stations are already open for everyone, no contract required. Implementing additional restrictions to manage a handful of holdouts is not going to be financially beneficial to them.

It's possible that not all SCs will be open, as Gen1/Gen2 might not be easy to upgrade. It's possible that distribution of adapters will be prioritized to the manufacturers who signed the agreement. It's possible that the process will take a year or two. But BMW will certainly have access to SCs.

Now, signing the agreement to get NACS ports in future vehicles and get earlier access to SC network would be nice. But given the neglect BMW has demonstrated to US certifications for their vehicles (matrix lights, tow hitch, etc.) the risk is moderately high that holdout perspective will continue for a while.

[Paladin1]

It looks like Lotus will be a significant player in the luxury SUV/EV market as well, and since it's also owned by Geely along with Volvo and Polestar....

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by ilya4min

I'm still very convinced that BMW signing a deal with Tesla will not change anything besides NACS ports in the car itself. Once adapters are released, they'll work on BMW vehicles. Watched the last Tesla investor day last week, and they're pretty clear they want to open up Superchargers. In EU, over 50% of their stations are already open for everyone, no contract required. Implementing additional restrictions to manage a handful of holdouts is not going to be financially beneficial to them.

It's possible that not all SCs will be open, as Gen1/Gen2 might not be easy to upgrade. It's possible that distribution of adapters will be prioritized to the manufacturers who signed the agreement. It's possible that the process will take a year or two. But BMW will certainly have access to SCs.

Now, signing the agreement to get NACS ports in future vehicles and get earlier access to SC network would be nice. But given the neglect BMW has demonstrated to US certifications for their vehicles (matrix lights, tow hitch, etc.) the risk is moderately high that holdout perspective will continue for a while.

Again, having a NACS port or an adapter DOES NOT give you access to superchargers. Superchargers are a closed, private network. Tesla allows who can charge. If there is no agreement between the companies, there is no access to the supercharger network regardless of what port or adapters you may have.

BMW needs to sign a deal with Tesla, pay the piper, and get moving. Without that, no superchargers for BMWs.

[BMWEVGuy]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

Again, having a NACS port or an adapter DOES NOT give you access to superchargers. Superchargers are a closed, private network. Tesla allows who can charge. If there is no agreement between the companies, there is no access to the supercharger network regardless of what port or adapters you may have.

BMW needs to sign a deal with Tesla, pay the piper, and get moving. Without that, no superchargers for BMWs.

I don't think that is quite right. If you go to Tesla Pilot homepage:

https://www.tesla.com/support/non-tesla-supercharging

"With this pilot, some stations are now accessible to non-Tesla EV drivers in selected countries via the Tesla app (version 4.18.0 or higher). Tesla drivers can continue to use these stations as they always have, and we will be closely monitoring each site for congestion and listening to customers about their experiences. "


If you look at Q&A:

https://www.tesla.com/support/non-te...river-benefits

"As a Tesla driver you benefit from the seamless integration of charge post and vehicle, optimized route planning and battery pre-conditioning. With your Tesla, you’ll also have access to the lowest Supercharger pricing."

So if you sign a deal with Tesla, 12000 Super Charger sites will be available to you. You will benefit from seamless integration for payment(Non Tesla car manufacturer will have to provide software update for this), optimized route planning by Car's navigation taking into account charger availability (Mercedes Navigation in 2024 model will have this as per their new order guides) and battery pre conditioning done automatically for you.

Only benefit that a Tesla owner will have over you will be lowest price and all Supercharger sites will be available not just 12K.


Under Tesla App section

"How do I charge if I do not drive a Tesla ?

Download the Tesla app (version 4.18.0 or higher) for iOS or Android and create a Tesla Account.
Select ‘Charge Your Non-Tesla’ and find your Supercharger site.
Add your payment method, select a stall, unlock the adapter, plug-in your car, and tap ‘Start Charging.’
Select ‘Stop Charging’ to complete your session."



This is quite cumbersome.

Charger availability:
Without a deal BMW owner will have to log into Tesla app to find out which charger is available. I don't know if all of 12,000 sites available to manufacturers who sign up a deal with Tesla will also be available to folks driving a car made by manufacturer who has not signed up with Tesla.

Route planning:
Imagine you will plan your route using Car's navigation or Apple Map or Google Map or Waze and then you will manually try to correlate Tesla charger availability from your app with your map. Imagine to repeating that if charger is no longer available

Battery Pre Conditioning:
For super charger location that you manually figure out how will you do automatic battery pre conditioning.

Payment:
I think App should also give a bit of seamless payment experience


If you are buying a $100K vehicle I would expect manufacturing company to already give me all these things. This stuff is basic essential as far as EV experience goes and any manufacturer who does not think about these points should loose business.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by BMWEVGuy

Under Tesla App section

"How do I charge if I do not drive a Tesla ?

Download the Tesla app (version 4.18.0 or higher) for iOS or Android and create a Tesla Account.
Select ‘Charge Your Non-Tesla’ and find your Supercharger site.
Add your payment method, select a stall, unlock the adapter, plug-in your car, and tap ‘Start Charging.’
Select ‘Stop Charging’ to complete your session."



This is quite cumbersome.

Charger availability:
Without a deal BMW owner will have to log into Tesla app to find out which charger is available. I don't know if all of 12,000 sites available to manufacturers who sign up a deal with Tesla will also be available to folks driving a car made by manufacturer who has not signed up with Tesla.

As of a couple of months ago, only a handful of sites in NY and CA supported this. I deleted my T* account so I can no longer tell if that's been expanded but I thought there might have been a few sites in TX that are now supported. This scenario requires the site be upgraded with the new magic dock so it's unlikely to be all 12,000 sites. I can only say that the sites I have seen recently here in WA do not have the installed hardware. Even a new site close to me that's been installed but not opened yet (still under wraps) lacks the hardware and this new site is not a V4 site either. Just like most of their announcements, "coming soon"

As for the "I think App should also give a bit of seamless payment experience" comment, not sure what's meant by that other than it will probably work similar to EA's app. BMW isn't supporting Plug&Charge on iDrive 8.5 yet and it's unclear if 8.0 will ever get it. Same goes for the less secure AutoCharge from EVgo which uses the car's MAC address as a "unique" identifier.

[FultonMDUSA]

Originally Posted by Pictor

As of a couple of months ago, only a handful of sites in NY and CA supported this. I deleted my T* account so I can no longer tell if that's been expanded but I thought there might have been a few sites in TX that are now supported.

One site in Fort Worth now.