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      09-17-2018, 05:39 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Um.... no one wants the Republican Party - that's what started this whole shit show.
Weird. That being the case and America voting the opposite last election.
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      09-17-2018, 05:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Um.... no one wants the Republican Party - that's what started this whole shit show.
Weird. That being the case and America voting the opposite last election.
They voted for Trump in the last election, not republicans. No other Republican candidate would have won against Hillary.
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      09-17-2018, 06:49 PM   #25
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They voted for Trump in the last election, not republicans. No other Republican candidate would have won against Hillary.
Who did? Last time I checked, Trump lost by about 3 million American citizen votes.
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      09-17-2018, 08:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by PA135ii View Post
And keep the economy humming. It's hard to vote against your wallet unless you have brain damage.
Now I don't think he is going to legalize it, don't get me wrong. But he would go down in History if he did and get that 2nd term guaranteed. No questions asked.

Imagine the economy booming and then you add in legalized weed. No more bales of weed from Mexico. Less crime in every state, less POC in jails for BS weed offences, huge amount of tax revenue.

It would just be EPIC.
decriminalize is a better alternative but I admit even today alcohol and tobacco are not decriminalized.
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      09-18-2018, 08:30 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Who did? Last time I checked, Trump lost by about 3 million American citizen votes.
Maybe you need a civics lesson. Since our country has been electing presidents... we use what is called the electoral college. This system assures that all states have a least some say.. on who is elected. Because if we didn't have the electoral college only the major population centers would have any say on whom is elected.

HRC got all those additional votes in 1 state California. But too bad for her she lost fair and square.

This is an old tired argument you might want to move on from.
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      09-18-2018, 08:40 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Who did? Last time I checked, Trump lost by about 3 million American citizen votes.
Maybe you need a civics lesson. Since our country has been electing presidents... we use what is called the electoral college. This system assures that all states have a least some say.. on who is elected. Because if we didn't have the electoral college only the major population centers would have any say on whom is elected.

HRC got all those additional votes in 1 state California. But too bad for her she lost fair and square.

This is an old tired argument you might want to move on from.
Not sure if those numbers include the votes from a couple hundred thousand convicted felons that had their voting rights "restored" by the Democrat governor of Va, just before the 2016 election?
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      09-18-2018, 09:26 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by PA135ii View Post
Maybe you need a civics lesson. Since our country has been electing presidents... we use what is called the electoral college. This system assures that all states have a least some say.. on who is elected. Because if we didn't have the electoral college only the major population centers would have any say on whom is elected.

HRC got all those additional votes in 1 state California. But too bad for her she lost fair and square.

This is an old tired argument you might want to move on from.
Thanks but I know how the system works. LOL. He said America voted for Trump. American voters didn't vote him in, the electoral college did. You know, that very system Trump said should be dismantled years back when Obama was elected. All the votes didn't come from CA either. You're just skewing the data.
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      09-18-2018, 09:34 AM   #30
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Thanks but I know how the system works. LOL. He said America voted for Trump. American voters didn't vote him in, the electoral college did. You know, that very system Trump said should be dismantled years back when Obama was elected. All the votes didn't come from CA either. You're just skewing the data.
If you don't like how we elect our presidents then either move to another country or write to congressman to get rid of it. Just because you didn't get the result you wanted doesn't make any of your points valid.
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      09-18-2018, 09:46 AM   #31
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Not sure if those numbers include the votes from a couple hundred thousand convicted felons that had their voting rights "restored" by the Democrat governor of Va, just before the 2016 election?
I thought felons would be pro Trump?
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      09-18-2018, 09:53 AM   #32
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I thought felons would be pro Trump?
Is arpaio pro-trump?
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      09-18-2018, 10:33 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Not sure if those numbers include the votes from a couple hundred thousand convicted felons that had their voting rights "restored" by the Democrat governor of Va, just before the 2016 election?
So someone convicted of a crime, letís exclude violent crime, who serves thier sentence should lose the right to vote for the rest of thier life? They get a job, pay taxes, but you donít think they deserve the right to vote for stealing a car or getting caught with a couple ounces of pot? Really. What was it I read about taxation without representation in this colony about 250 years ago?
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      09-18-2018, 10:38 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Not sure if those numbers include the votes from a couple hundred thousand convicted felons that had their voting rights "restored" by the Democrat governor of Va, just before the 2016 election?
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Originally Posted by ard5040 View Post
So someone convicted of a crime, let’s exclude violent crime, who serves thier sentence should lose the right to vote for the rest of thier life? They get a job, pay taxes, but you don’t think they deserve the right to vote for stealing a car or getting caught with a couple ounces of pot? Really. What was it I read about taxation without representation in this colony about 250 years ago?
I think bbbbmw was referring to those who have NOT served their sentences and are still incarcerated.

I'd be very surprised if in America you lost your right to vote forever even after you served your time. I mean, it is sort of contradictory to the whole rationale that your rights are restored upon serving your time right? So sounds like a pretty wacky idea that they have lost their rights forever.

Do you know that they lose their right to vote even after serving time, or are you just making this up to be inflammatory?
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      09-18-2018, 10:52 AM   #35
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I think bbbbmw was referring to those who have NOT served their sentences and are still incarcerated.

I'd be very surprised if in America you lost your right to vote forever even after you served your time. I mean, it is sort of contradictory to the whole rationale that your rights are restored upon serving your time right? So sounds like a pretty wacky idea that they have lost their rights forever.

Do you know that they lose their right to vote even after serving time, or are you just making this up to be inflammatory?
Yes. You lose certain rights forever. No guns. No votes. Etc. In certain conditions rights can be restored, but the standard is to lose forever.
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      09-18-2018, 12:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
I think bbbbmw was referring to those who have NOT served their sentences and are still incarcerated.

I'd be very surprised if in America you lost your right to vote forever even after you served your time. I mean, it is sort of contradictory to the whole rationale that your rights are restored upon serving your time right? So sounds like a pretty wacky idea that they have lost their rights forever.

Do you know that they lose their right to vote even after serving time, or are you just making this up to be inflammatory?
Check out Florida. After serving your sentence you go before the governor and two other board members and apply for the right to vote again. There are no standards, no rules. It’s, as governor Rick Scott has said on numerous occasions, “our gut feeling whether you deserve to vote”. Check out the voting rights laws for convicted felons who have completed thier sentences in other “red” states. NY recently changed its law to allow people convicted of nonviolent crimes who had served thier time to vote and state republicans shit thier pants. I believe that’s what bbbb was implying, all felons vote Democrat.
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      09-18-2018, 12:30 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ard5040 View Post
Check out Florida. After serving your sentence you go before the governor and two other board members and apply for the right to vote again. There are no standards, no rules. Itís, as governor Rick Scott has said on numerous occasions, ďour gut feeling whether you deserve to voteĒ. Check out the voting rights laws for convicted felons who have completed thier sentences in other ďredĒ states. NY recently changed its law to allow people convicted of nonviolent crimes who had served thier time to vote and state republicans shit thier pants. I believe thatís what bbbb was implying, all felons vote Democrat.
Hmm that's pretty crazy. I wouldn't have thought that would be the case. If they've served their time and deemed to be rehabilitated, then I figured all rights would basically be restored (or at least voting rights would be...maybe not gun rights). Interesting.

You made me google it. This was a good site.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/electio...ng-rights.aspx
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      09-18-2018, 12:58 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by ard5040 View Post
NY recently changed its law to allow people convicted of nonviolent crimes who had served thier time to vote and state republicans shit thier pants.

1) Their, not thier.

2) Which felonies would you consider 'non-violent' for which these people were convicted?
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      09-18-2018, 01:02 PM   #39
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1) Their, not thier.

2) Which felonies would you consider 'non-violent' for which these people were convicted?
1) Damn, man. I'm a grammar Nazi and even I would have let that one slide, it's an obvious typo.

2) https://www.nyclu.org/en/issues/voti...-voting-rights
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      09-18-2018, 01:20 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Not sure if those numbers include the votes from a couple hundred thousand convicted felons that had their voting rights "restored" by the Democrat governor of Va, just before the 2016 election?
So someone convicted of a crime, let's exclude violent crime, who serves thier sentence should lose the right to vote for the rest of thier life? They get a job, pay taxes, but you don't think they deserve the right to vote for stealing a car or getting caught with a couple ounces of pot? Really. What was it I read about taxation without representation in this colony about 250 years ago?
Tbh, I'm more concerned about illegals being here, and committing crimes. That's "representation without taxation," or citizenship, or anything else. It would have been insanity to our ancestors until about 1995. Now there are people running for Congress, whose platform is advocating for that.

But I digress.

To the content of your post, I would respond:

- getting "caught with a couple ounces of pot" is a red herring - it's never just that,

- I think it's an issue of state's rights, whether the citizens want their votes diluted in this manner,

- are you really comparing "taxation without representation" to those who willfully break the social contract to the degree of a felony? That's a false equivalency.

- someone steals the car of a single mom. She depends on her car for work, and then loses her job. It has a major impact on her life, she has to go on welfare and food stamps for a while, and the thief gets 6 months in jail - and doesn't make any restitution to the single mom. Should the thief lose his right to vote? Hell yes. Unfortunately this is a very common occurrence.

- If I lived in VA, I'd be outraged that the governor decided to issue an executive order on his own, without any vote or consideration, on such an impactful issue (again, he's diluting my vote). And then when slapped down, he still didn't go to the voters, but instead misused his office a second time. Inexcusable.
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      09-18-2018, 01:26 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Not sure if those numbers include the votes from a couple hundred thousand convicted felons that had their voting rights "restored" by the Democrat governor of Va, just before the 2016 election?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard5040 View Post
So someone convicted of a crime, let's exclude violent crime, who serves thier sentence should lose the right to vote for the rest of thier life? They get a job, pay taxes, but you don't think they deserve the right to vote for stealing a car or getting caught with a couple ounces of pot? Really. What was it I read about taxation without representation in this colony about 250 years ago?
I think bbbbmw was referring to those who have NOT served their sentences and are still incarcerated.

I'd be very surprised if in America you lost your right to vote forever even after you served your time. I mean, it is sort of contradictory to the whole rationale that your rights are restored upon serving your time right? So sounds like a pretty wacky idea that they have lost their rights forever.

Do you know that they lose their right to vote even after serving time, or are you just making this up to be inflammatory?
I think there are like 11 states where you do lose it permanently - each state is a bit different.

The most egregious scam was Cuomo in NY just recently - he gave a conditional pardon to something like 11,000 felons, but only allowing them to cast a vote - nothing else. And he won.

Shameless.
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      09-18-2018, 01:29 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
1) Damn, man. I'm a grammar Nazi and even I would have let that one slide, it's an obvious typo.

2) https://www.nyclu.org/en/issues/voti...-voting-rights

Thanks for the link, however, it doesn't seem to answer my question to the post I cited. Based on the link provided, it appears that any felon can now apply to have voting rights reinstated.

I was more inquiring with respect to the 'non-violent felon' comment, as many through that around, but in reality, there are very very few felony convictions that are non-violent in nature.
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      09-18-2018, 01:34 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Thanks for the link, however, it doesn't seem to answer my question to the post I cited. Based on the link provided, it appears that any felon can now apply to have voting rights reinstated.

I was more inquiring with respect to the 'non-violent felon' comment, as many through that around, but in reality, there are very very few felony convictions that are non-violent in nature.
1) "Throw" not through. (You started it...)

2) Based on the link I posted regarding NY's current laws, it appears that "non-violent" isn't a hoop to jump through, so it is beside the point. Unless there are other states that allow "non-violent" felons to vote, in which case we'd need to see their statutes on the matter.
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      09-18-2018, 01:51 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
1) "Throw" not through. (You started it...)

2) Based on the link I posted regarding NY's current laws, it appears that "non-violent" isn't a hoop to jump through, so it is beside the point. Unless there are other states that allow "non-violent" felons to vote, in which case we'd need to see their statutes on the matter.
Wow - I cannot believe I made that error and you are completely fair in calling me out on it.

I might not have explained myself very well in my original post, and I apologize for that. Irrespective of the NY law recently enacted, I was curious as to the poster's comment regarding the 'non-violent' qualifier. It is a pet-peeve of mine, as many people use it to justify a comment about incarceration rates or other grievances, when in reality we should all just be honest and say that this law allowed those convicted of very serious and frequently violent crimes (felonies) to vote.

Personally, with a few exceptions, I am not opposed to allowing convicted felons who have served out all of their time (including parole and/or probation terms) to have voting rights reinstated. I just took offence to the 'non-violent' qualifier.
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