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      03-09-2020, 12:25 PM   #45
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You'll probably see 3.8 seconds to 60 but not anything crazier without stickier rubber because it'll be traction limited. My guess is that it'll have similar performance numbers to a non-comp F82 M4. Glad the manual is still alive.
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      03-09-2020, 12:27 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
You may be right, but it's a waste of energy trying to complain when BMW isn't going to change. If the option was no manual and DCT-only vs. manual and 8AT, I think we're all going to take the latter.

Also, in before someone brings up Porsche and their continuous use of PDK, why can't BMW?
A big reason why Porsche must use PDK is because mid/rear engine cars pretty much have to because of packaging. Modern torque converter planetary automatics are too long. This is also way performance front engine FWD cars (or FWD based AWD) use DCTs or manual only as well. Cars like the GTI/Golf R, the Focus RS, Civic Type R, Veloster N, Civic Si, either are DCT or manual only because a torque converter automatic in a transverse configuration is severely compromised for use in a performance car.

Obviously Porsche and other mid engined cars are longitudinal, but they drive the rear wheels so need a transaxle with limited space in the back. Look at the new C8 corvette. They go mid engine so they changed from torque converter auto to DCT. That's why cars like the RS4/5/6, M3/M4/M5/M8 can all use torque converter automatics since they use a front engine RWD layout. Audis are a bit weird but since they have longitudinal engine configurations and it's easier to fit a long transmission in the front of the car, we can just pretend they are RWD cars.

Finally, I'm sure Porsche could fit a ZF 8HP in the back if they really wanted to. But they're Porsche. They charge a lot of money for the little things.
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      03-09-2020, 12:29 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
But what about the M240i? I fear that it won't have manual or the B58 next go round.
I'm suspecting the manual will be M-only for the future. With no manual on the G20 3er or even the G29 Z4 (a roadster of all types of vehicles that deserve a manual), the chances of a manual 240 are very slim.
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      03-09-2020, 12:31 PM   #48
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150-200lbs drop in weight, would be icing on the cake
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      03-09-2020, 12:42 PM   #49
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Not sure how I feel... some good news certainly, but I was also hoping for:

M xDrive as option (as long as weight wasn't compromised too much)
DCT as option
Hybrid electric at launch (optional), not at some point during 7 year cycle. I would like to see this mainly for instant torque delivery for launch etc. Would be fun.

At this stage I'm thinking I will get a Manual M2... but we'll see.
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      03-09-2020, 12:52 PM   #50
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News of a manual is always fantastic.
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      03-09-2020, 12:53 PM   #51
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2022 G87 M2 render

M2 coupe and Gran Coupe renders

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      03-09-2020, 01:01 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
150-200lbs drop in weight, would be icing on the cake
Wishful thinking. Probably more realistic to expect 150-200lbs MORE than current gen, not less
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      03-09-2020, 01:06 PM   #53
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Happy to see 6MT + RWD in the next-gen M2!

Will it have large ugly grilles though?
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      03-09-2020, 01:09 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
But what about the M240i? I fear that it won't have manual or the B58 next go round.
While it has not been officially confirmed, the manual transmission is all but sure not to return in the G42 2 Series. Other than in a few low end four cylinder applications (which are not available in the US), the S58 is the only engine BMW will pair with a manual transmission from now on.

The B58, on the other hand, appears likely to make a return in the G42. There are rumors of an M245i which could mean a B58 TU2 is coming.
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      03-09-2020, 01:10 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
Wishful thinking. Probably more realistic to expect 150-200lbs MORE than current gen, not less
I know but nothing wrong with wishing or dreaming. Lol
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      03-09-2020, 01:18 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stunad View Post
M2 coupe and Gran Coupe renders
Those renders are nonsense. The G42 2 Series Coupe and and G87 M2 Coupe are CLAR vehicles. The F44 2 Series Gran Coupe is a FAAR vehicle. The two will share absolutely nothing, nada.

Furthermore, there will be no M2 Gran Coupe in the F44 generation, which is only likely to span about five years.
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      03-09-2020, 01:32 PM   #57
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So, the M2 of today will be the very last model with DCT.
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      03-09-2020, 01:39 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Going from the excellent DCT to 8 speed torque converter auto in what is the purest M car of its range.

Abomination.
You're going from an auto to an auto. What's the problem? Either drive the car or let it drive you.

In all seriousness I don't know why anyone would pick DCT over the legendary ZF 8sp. It's perfect when you want a free hand for that burger. But also civilized around low speeds and insanely fast shifts when you're on it.
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      03-09-2020, 01:50 PM   #59
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I'm surprised nobody complains about the 420 HP de-tune this version of the S58 will get (initially) apparently.
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      03-09-2020, 01:56 PM   #60
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And So It Begins…
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      03-09-2020, 01:57 PM   #61
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WoW, those specs made me hard but got a little flaccid when I heard had increase in physical dimensions..

But what a package! The S58 is a better S55 without the crank hub issue..

I'm getting one, potential beaverface-grille or not, I just hope I don't hurt myself with all that power potential
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      03-09-2020, 01:59 PM   #62
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Hopefully no floating rear caliper like on the g80 and electric e-brake on 3 pedal cars.

The 8speed slush-box has a better 3-2 downshift feel. Less clunk compared (x3m) to the f90 - I have no idea whether or not its hydraulics or electronics. Torque converter is almost impossible to detect. Downshift is noticeably slower than DCT.

Should be a fast little bugger. S58 has nice linear power curve without the mid range s55 spike.
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      03-09-2020, 02:06 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
You're going from an auto to an auto. What's the problem? Either drive the car or let it drive you.
Yeah... that's why every F1 car has a stick shift.

But seriously, the whole point of the DCT, and the reason it's SO much better than the ZF8 is that it *does* let the driver choose the gears, and it's extremely good at acting on those decisions for both upshifts and downshifts (whereas the ZF8 is awful for downshift lag)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
In all seriousness I don't know why anyone would pick DCT over the legendary ZF 8sp. It's perfect when you want a free hand for that burger. But also civilized around low speeds and insanely fast shifts when you're on it.
There are entire threads on this https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1547234

But in short, if you've driven a DCT hard on track in manual mode then you really don't miss a mechanical clutch pedal.
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      03-09-2020, 02:10 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
Yeah... that's why every F1 car has a stick shift.
Because an M2 is an F1 car. You must be an amazing driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
But seriously, the whole point of the DCT, and the reason it's SO much better than the ZF8 is that it *does* let the driver choose the gears, and it's extremely good at acting on those decisions for both upshifts and downshifts (whereas the ZF8 is awful for downshift lag)
None of this is true. When tuned right the ZF8 is great and will give you any gear short of blowing your motor. It will hold gears as well. Not sure why you hate it so much. Driving it in a Dodge Charger vs an M5 is quite a different experience.
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      03-09-2020, 02:12 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Going from the excellent DCT to 8 speed torque converter auto in what is the purest M car of its range.

Abomination.
that's exactly what I was thinking. For what it's worth, the ZF 8 Speed is not even close to the DCT. Owned a few or each. Hands down, DCT prevails.
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      03-09-2020, 02:16 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
You're going from an auto to an auto. What's the problem? Either drive the car or let it drive you.

In all seriousness I don't know why anyone would pick DCT over the legendary ZF 8sp. It's perfect when you want a free hand for that burger. But also civilized around low speeds and insanely fast shifts when you're on it.
I've owned a few vehicles with ZF 8 Speeds, even tuned, they are no match for a DCT. My Alfa Romeo Quad ZF 8 speed is lethargic at PT shifts.
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