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      03-11-2020, 08:28 PM   #23
hellrotm
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Early adopters have their EV's. Buying a brand new Prius and paying for gas is still a lot cheaper than a Model 3. Mass adoption is far away.
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      03-11-2020, 09:02 PM   #24
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Early adopters have their EV's. Buying a brand new Prius and paying for gas is still a lot cheaper than a Model 3. Mass adoption is far away.
But a Kubota is faster than a Prius. At least the Model 3 can get out of its own way.
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      03-11-2020, 10:08 PM   #25
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Should you decide you can live with less than 200 miles of real world range, your list expands to the Ioniq, Mini, and BMW i3 (the latter two have not much more than 100 miles of range).
2020 Ioniq EV will be test driven this weekend. 170 mile range, but that's cool.

We have a 2020 Ioniq PHEV and that B will do 800 miles on a tank of gas with one 30 mile charge per day. Not a bad ride.

If we just stop using oil EV sales will take off.
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      03-11-2020, 11:35 PM   #26
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But a Kubota is faster than a Prius. At least the Model 3 can get out of its own way.
A Model 3 is slower to a 500 mile destination that a Prius.
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      03-12-2020, 06:55 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timujin View Post
2020 Ioniq EV will be test driven this weekend. 170 mile range, but that's cool.

We have a 2020 Ioniq PHEV and that B will do 800 miles on a tank of gas with one 30 mile charge per day. Not a bad ride.

If we just stop using oil EV sales will take off.
So yes, but with EV sales so low, and ICE sales making up the majority of the market and the life expectancy of current cars at almost 12 years that switch isn't going to happen for a few decades.
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      03-12-2020, 10:58 AM   #28
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A Model 3 is slower to a 500 mile destination that a Prius.
Prior to this week, I'd have said that an EV to the airport and a plane flight would obviously be much faster to cover 500 miles, but now, you might be onto something.
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      03-12-2020, 01:31 PM   #29
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The Volvo XC40 Recharge is coming out now, and unlike the others on that list it is a legitimate SUV with available AWD. The Model Y is here now too.
All true - but since they didn't exist at the time of the survey they wouldn't be counted in the metric.

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      03-12-2020, 01:34 PM   #30
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If we just stop using oil EV sales will take off.
If 'we' paid homeowners/businesses/strip malls/movie theaters/etc to install EVSE instead of a tax break you'd see more adoption too (less anxiety if you can charge everywhere). And more business to electricians.

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      03-13-2020, 01:04 PM   #31
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further alienating audiences. Still, we are now are at seven hatchbacks. .
it's almost if...gasp...OEMs know what body type sells the worst and they made them EV on purpose. i would never expect a good effort from mainstream OEMs with ICE cars as their bread and butter, it's a conflict of interest for them to push for well priced, meaningful ranged and desirable BEVs.
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      03-13-2020, 01:54 PM   #32
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Solid state batteries will change the auto industry. Until they are ready for prime time, mass adoption will not happen.
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      03-13-2020, 02:45 PM   #33
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I always wondered without the huge engine block limiting the front end design factor, why are the majority of EVs continue to look awkward and dorky?
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      03-13-2020, 02:56 PM   #34
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I always wondered without the huge engine block limiting the front end design factor, why are the majority of EVs continue to look awkward and dorky?
Because the majority of all cars look awkward and dorky.
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      03-17-2020, 09:29 AM   #35
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it's almost if...gasp...OEMs know what body type sells the worst and they made them EV on purpose.
conspiracy...??? impossible!
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      03-17-2020, 10:58 AM   #36
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it's a conflict of interest for [auto manufacturers] to push for well priced, meaningful ranged and desirable BEVs.
This is ludicrous. Manufacturers like BMW are making massive investments into EVs. Their shareholders demand to see a return on these expenditures. The executives can't just decide to waste these investments by sabotaging the byproduct of their investments into EVs.
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      03-17-2020, 11:04 AM   #37
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vast majority of that money has been pissed against a wall IMHO. Toyota just sits there watching everyone else develop the tech, spending tens of billions whilst they make money hand over fist.
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      03-17-2020, 11:07 AM   #38
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vast majority of that money has been pissed against a wall IMHO. Toyota just sits there watching everyone else develop the tech, spending tens of billions whilst they make money hand over fist.
Is Toyota pissing money against the wall; or just sitting there watching everyone else develop the [EV] tech? Those two contentions seem mutually exclusive.
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      03-17-2020, 11:24 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ecaedus View Post
it's a conflict of interest for [auto manufacturers] to push for well priced, meaningful ranged and desirable BEVs.
This is ludicrous. Manufacturers like BMW are making massive investments into EVs. Their shareholders demand to see a return on these expenditures. The executives can't just decide to waste these investments by sabotaging the byproduct of their investments into EVs.
Yet they still managed to make the iX3 rwd only and the electric Mini has the range of a crotch rocket. The intelligence of BMW's iTeam does seem a little suspect.
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      03-17-2020, 11:27 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
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Originally Posted by ecaedus View Post
it's a conflict of interest for [auto manufacturers] to push for well priced, meaningful ranged and desirable BEVs.
This is ludicrous. Manufacturers like BMW are making massive investments into EVs. Their shareholders demand to see a return on these expenditures. The executives can't just decide to waste these investments by sabotaging the byproduct of their investments into EVs.
Yet they still managed to make the iX3 rwd only and the electric Mini has the range of a crotch rocket. The intelligence of BMW's iTeam does seem a little suspect.
I think it's totally fair to question the wisdom, but I don't think any company is sabotaging their own products.
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      03-17-2020, 11:37 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecaedus View Post
it's a conflict of interest for [auto manufacturers] to push for well priced, meaningful ranged and desirable BEVs.
This is ludicrous. Manufacturers like BMW are making massive investments into EVs. Their shareholders demand to see a return on these expenditures. The executives can't just decide to waste these investments by sabotaging the byproduct of their investments into EVs.
Yet they still managed to make the iX3 rwd only and the electric Mini has the range of a crotch rocket. The intelligence of BMW's iTeam does seem a little suspect.
I think it's totally fair to question the wisdom, but I don't think any company is sabotaging their own products.
I wouldn't rule out VW adding a little two cycle to the ID3 for no reason but to keep up their CO2 emissions.
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      03-17-2020, 11:57 AM   #42
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Is Toyota pissing money against the wall; or just sitting there watching everyone else develop the [EV] tech? Those two contentions seem mutually exclusive.
No the companies pouring billions into EV and AI are pissing money against a wall. Toyota has done very little on either for years and make serious coin.

The tech isn't ready and in the hunt to be first they are going to kill themselves in the process.
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      03-17-2020, 01:24 PM   #43
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The tech isn't ready and in the hunt to be first they are going to kill themselves in the process.
I agree with the first part of your sentence, but not the second. The problem that isn't being discussed has to do with legislation. The way emissions regulations are working across the fleet of vehicles a manfacturer offers definitely makes it worthwhile to offer pretty much any EV. Also, IIRC, California requires all companies to sell vehicles in the state that are not gas/diesel powered. Then there's the increasing pressure of cities across the world to start banning ICEs in 10-15 yrs.

The reality of the situation is that the pressures on auto manufacturers to offer alternatives to gas/diesel power is MUCH stronger than it is to offer vehicles that are all that compelling. Basically, it would seem that to manufacturers, doing something is vastly better than doing nothing.

So in addition to cost and technology, the other factors is legislation. Politics are a dirty word on forums, and for good reason, but you can't have a conversation about the decisions companies are making to offer EVs without acknowledging the role of politics.
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      03-17-2020, 04:45 PM   #44
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Wait for YE figures. Q3Q4 was the first time Tesla posted consecutive quarters in the black.
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