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      03-10-2020, 10:26 AM   #67
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Death of a brand
Idiot boomer making a fool of herself.
Lmao, dumb zoomer. Enjoy your pig fat mexican economy car, I mean '''''''M''''2
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      03-10-2020, 10:43 AM   #68
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Death of a brand
I’m Asian and didn’t lease mine, as I’m sure most Asians and Saudis. You sir, are just an idiot.
You're in denial and clearly never been to college campus
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      03-10-2020, 10:47 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Look into Takata and airbag manufacturing in Mexico. That is a big reason why this airbag recall is still going on.
Again, compare the panel gaps on a mustang, or better yet, a Tesla with the panel gaps on an accord or Camry. Two are well made, while the other two seem like they’re built by people who couldn’t care less. They’re all built in America though. That dichotomy is not unique to our country and exists everywhere, including Mexico.

It’s corporate cultures, not national cultures that are responsible for that kind of disparity.
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      03-10-2020, 11:07 AM   #70
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None of what youre saying is disproving the gentlmems point,,

If you want good wholesome authentic mexican food, your gonna go look for an established mom and pop shop that is run by mexicans that sources its ingredients locally, your not gonna go look for taco bell where they have a bunch of plug and play processes and ingredients sourced from halfway across the country, and the workers are immigrants (non medicans) getting minimum wage

Whats the difference between the two restaurants? The SOUL of the food

Things like cultural speciality are real things that have been refined over centuries and ingrained into the mindset and bodies of the people, thats why they have a phrase called 'German engineering' , Its a reall thing, and is shown why some.of the top brands everybody brings up for automobiles are all German

These subtle and intangible factors aren't going to show up on your KPI spreadsheet , you cant just view ppl as resources, there are differences between nations and culture. Some cultures are good at some things , others are good at other things, to just erase these differences from your looking glass is just an inneffective globalist viewpoint

There are lots of studies thay 'prove'that the world will end in 12 yrs if we don't reduce our carbon footprint to zero and give our tax money to al gore, but we all know that is a bunch of rubbish. You cant treat people like they are some automatons who can be trained to do anything through pavlovian conditioning ,
As for “German Engineering” you do realize BMW doesn’t hirer exclusively German’s into their R&D? You do also realize that virtually every tier 2 and tier 3 component is going to be engineered by the company it’s outsourced to, right? Most of which are not in Germany. Furthermore Leipzig is located in what is formally known as East Germany, which is far different today than it was 30 years ago. Car manufacturing is not built into the DNA of the German people despite what you might have heard. By that logic I would make a superior doctor because Healthcare is the US’s largest industry and I grew up in the US. And trust me, you don’t want me as your doctor.

Also let’s not forget that if BMW TRULY believed that it can build a car in Germany better than any other place in the world, they wouldn’t be looking to open plants in other areas. If that was a core belief, they wouldn’t be looking to essentially destroy their own brand.

Finally, yes studies matter. Your example was NEVER considered to be mainstream or popular within the scientific community. There are always outliers and that’s why you remove outliers and make considerations toward where the overwhelming preponderance of evidence lies. Otherwise you end up with nonsense like 9/11 was an inside job, holocaust never happened, anti-vax, flat earth, etc.

PS: My favorite taco shop in SD is called “Not Not Tacos” which is owned by a Canadian man of Jewish faith, other known as “Sam the Cooking Guy”.
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      03-10-2020, 11:12 AM   #71
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Hey ICE I found one!
Show me on here where a Mexican hurt you

Haha Reddit jokes
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      03-10-2020, 11:32 AM   #72
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Your outlook lacks reason and isn’t remotely grounded in facts.

So you’re saying that other cultures that are different lack the capacity to care about the quality? No one else outside of your country takes pride in their work? The rest of the world has a “fuck it” approach to personal and organizational achievement? Asinine.

It’s not like you need to take my word for it. There are countless studies and even more case studies that organizations have done over the decades that show point of manufacturer and assembly don’t factor into quality as long as the infrastructure and support models exist. To argue otherwise simply shows personal bias that isn’t reflective of reality. And to answer your question if you can teach someone to care, the answer is yes. You tie quality metrics in their personal KPIs and celebrate accomplishments. You foster an environment that people want to be in. You make people part of the greater team and publish your key performance indicators to everyone on the work floor. That’s how you get people to care about their work and keep engagement high. Again, countless studies have been done to support this and successful organizations with a global presence practice this. This is a fact.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Surprised? - You should be. Clearly, you haven't traveled enough, or at all. I have. Yes, yes, and yes. Welcome to the real world, the rest of which (especially parts of Asia, minus Japan) does, in fact, have a "fuck it" approach to personal and organizational achievement more so than developed countries do.

I know this for a fact. I studied and worked abroad. I experienced it. I lived abroad (both Europe and Asia), I traveled all of South America many times, etc. I actually know what the mentality in those countries is like. I cannot even began to describe it because narrow-minded and privileged twats like you would never understand. This is similar to Americans expecting good service in restaurants, which doesn't even exist in other parts of the world because it's extremely rare for anyone there to give two shits about whether they have catered to your American needs (after they already got your money). Most people in developing countries work for scraps. There are virtually no labor laws in those countries and even if there are some, they're never enforced. It's quite literally slave labor. I worked for a software company in Asia. I know a thing or two about their mentality and how they operate for the most part. You clearly never experienced anything like it. And while software companies are not automobile assembly lines, there are striking similarities between the two - the entire software cycle and release process is awkwardly similar in nature.

So before saying something ignorant about how developing regions view quality, go live and work in some of those countries and report back.

BTW, there are no such "studies". Just paid-for nonsense. So quit making shit up. You think BMW or any other manufacturer is going to come out and publicly admit that their work being outsourced is shit even if in fact it was shit?

You're not very good at reasoning.
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      03-10-2020, 11:39 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs View Post
None of what youre saying is disproving the gentlmems point,,

If you want good wholesome authentic mexican food, your gonna go look for an established mom and pop shop that is run by mexicans that sources its ingredients locally, your not gonna go look for taco bell where they have a bunch of plug and play processes and ingredients sourced from halfway across the country, and the workers are immigrants (non medicans) getting minimum wage

Whats the difference between the two restaurants? The SOUL of the food

Things like cultural speciality are real things that have been refined over centuries and ingrained into the mindset and bodies of the people, thats why they have a phrase called 'German engineering' , Its a reall thing, and is shown why some.of the top brands everybody brings up for automobiles are all German

These subtle and intangible factors aren't going to show up on your KPI spreadsheet , you cant just view ppl as resources, there are differences between nations and culture. Some cultures are good at some things , others are good at other things, to just erase these differences from your looking glass is just an inneffective globalist viewpoint

There are lots of studies thay 'prove'that the world will end in 12 yrs if we don't reduce our carbon footprint to zero and give our tax money to al gore, but we all know that is a bunch of rubbish. You cant treat people like they are some automatons who can be trained to do anything through pavlovian conditioning ,
There's no point in trying to convince the masses that quality and cultures play a role.

He probably never left the country. We can't expect every ignorant North American to understand.
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      03-10-2020, 11:52 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
Train somebody to care? Oh that's cute because you know people in germany in the factory are all care loving workers...
What's cute is your ignorance. Yes, workers in German factories actually take a lot of pride in their work. It breaks your heart, I know.
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      03-10-2020, 11:55 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by ///Mac View Post
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Surprised? - You should be. Clearly, you haven't traveled enough, or at all. I have. Yes, yes, and yes. Welcome to the real world, the rest of which (especially parts of Asia, minus Japan) does, in fact, have a "fuck it" approach to personal and organizational achievement more so than developed countries do.

I know this for a fact. I studied and worked abroad. I experienced it. I lived abroad (both Europe and Asia), I traveled all of South America many times, etc. I actually know what the mentality in those countries is like. I cannot even began to describe it because narrow-minded and privileged twats like you would never understand. This is similar to Americans expecting good service in restaurants, which doesn't even exist in other parts of the world because it's extremely rare for anyone there to give two shits about whether they have catered to your American needs (after they already got your money). Most people in developing countries work for scraps. There are virtually no labor laws in those countries and even if there are some, they're never enforced. It's quite literally slave labor. I worked for a software company in Asia. I know a thing or two about their mentality and how they operate for the most part. You clearly never experienced anything like it. And while software companies are not automobile assembly lines, there are striking similarities between the two - the entire software cycle and release process is awkwardly similar in nature.

So before saying something ignorant about how developing regions view quality, go live and work in some of those countries and report back.

BTW, there are no such "studies". Just paid-for nonsense. So quit making shit up. You think BMW or any other manufacturer is going to come out and publicly admit that their work being outsourced is shit even if in fact it was shit?

You're not very good at reasoning.
Personal insults now? Good place to resort to when you run out of logic.

Not well traveled? You missed the fact that I do this for a living. When I was more junior in my field all I did was travel. We're not going to agree but the evidence is overwhelmingly on my side of the argument, even if you don't think these "studies" exist. Nevermind that people actually go to school for these things.

Believe what you want. I can't stop you but I can say that what you wrote is patently false. Continuing this conversation is clearly going to be an exercise in futility so I'll just simply wish you well with the suggestion that you keep open mind.
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      03-10-2020, 12:02 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Personal insults now? Good place to resort to when you run out of logic.

Not well traveled? You missed the fact that I do this for a living. When I was more junior in my field all I did was travel. We're not going to agree but the evidence is overwhelmingly on my side of the argument, even if you don't think these "studies" exist. Nevermind that people actually go to school for these things.

Believe what you want. I can't stop you but I can say that what you wrote is patently false. Continuing this conversation is clearly going to be an exercise in futility so I'll just simply wish you well with the suggestion that you keep open mind.
What evidence? - Where is this so-called evidence? - You haven't proved shit. Just talking out of your ass and citing some biased studies. Oh, wait, you haven't cited anything.

Experience trumps bro science, pal. Avoid generalizing and don't assume that you are well versed on a specific area or region, when clearly you are not - that's the only thing you've proven. For you to even suggest that quality is viewed the same way in developing and developed countries is all the proof I need to know that you never lived or worked abroad.
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      03-10-2020, 12:20 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by SleepingBMW View Post
I promise the dumb zoomers and Asians and Saudi's leasing these things on the coasts won't notice anything but the badge.
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Originally Posted by SleepingBMW View Post
You're in denial and clearly never been to college campus
Your original statement basically said that all the Asians and Saudis don't actually know anything about cars and are just buying cars for the badge. There are a lot of clueless rich kids buying/leasing nice cars and it makes you jealous. We get that. But then to imply any affluent minority buying nice cars is purely doing it for the badge? I hate having to use this word, but that's simply racist. Rich kids are rich kids. They have a tendency to make people extremely jealous of their affluence.

There are plenty of Asian Americans and Arab Americans who have been successful and many have been here for generations. It's possible for an ethnic Asian or Arab to also be a car enthusiast.
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      03-10-2020, 12:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Will be exciting if they make Mexi-Delivery an option
If you don't get kidnapped, loose ur M2 and get held for ransom.
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      03-10-2020, 12:49 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Look into Takata and airbag manufacturing in Mexico. That is a big reason why this airbag recall is still going on.
"Takata made the decision to switch to using ammonium nitrate as a propellant. Prone to breaking down under hot and humid conditions, it can become unstable, leading to airbag modules exploding rather than safely inflating in a crash."

"Alby Berman, a spokesman for Takata, said the switch to an ammonium-nitrate-based propellant was not driven by cost considerations. Instead, the company's engineers determined that the compound produced gas more efficiently with fewer emissions."

So no, it was not Mexican factory workers, FFS.
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      03-10-2020, 01:04 PM   #80
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What's cute is your ignorance. Yes, workers in German factories actually take a lot of pride in their work. It breaks your heart, I know.
The irony.

Looks like I hit a sensitive nerve...
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      03-10-2020, 01:20 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by ///Mac View Post
What's cute is your ignorance. Yes, workers in German factories actually take a lot of pride in their work. It breaks your heart, I know.
Watch some assembly line videos, be surprised by the fact most of them don't have the perfect Arian features.
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      03-10-2020, 01:58 PM   #82
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Watch some assembly line videos, be surprised by the fact most of them don't have the perfect Arian features.
Your mixing race with culture bro,
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      03-10-2020, 02:29 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Conquistador View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Look into Takata and airbag manufacturing in Mexico. That is a big reason why this airbag recall is still going on.
"Takata made the decision to switch to using ammonium nitrate as a propellant. Prone to breaking down under hot and humid conditions, it can become unstable, leading to airbag modules exploding rather than safely inflating in a crash."

"Alby Berman, a spokesman for Takata, said the switch to an ammonium-nitrate-based propellant was not driven by cost considerations. Instead, the company's engineers determined that the compound produced gas more efficiently with fewer emissions."

So no, it was not Mexican factory workers, FFS.
That is not the only reason.

They found even the updated versions, with desiccant, from the Mexican factory were another cause.


https://hondaairbaginfo.com/statemen...bag-inflators/
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      03-10-2020, 02:31 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ///Mac View Post
What evidence? - Where is this so-called evidence? - You haven't proved shit. Just talking out of your ass and citing some biased studies. Oh, wait, you haven't cited anything.

Experience trumps bro science, pal. Avoid generalizing and don't assume that you are well versed on a specific area or region, when clearly you are not - that's the only thing you've proven. For you to even suggest that quality is viewed the same way in developing and developed countries is all the proof I need to know that you never lived or worked abroad.
You're saying developing nations like Mexico have a culture that doesn't allow them to care about their work and don't view quality in the same way as developed countries. If developed nations with large auto industries like Germany, Japan, and America have such high standards and CARE so much about what they do, then why would they trust some dirty developing nation workers to assemble their cars?

If I cared so much about my products, then would I entrust someone I knew doesn't have high standards to build them?
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      03-10-2020, 02:33 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Conquistador View Post
"Takata made the decision to switch to using ammonium nitrate as a propellant. Prone to breaking down under hot and humid conditions, it can become unstable, leading to airbag modules exploding rather than safely inflating in a crash."

"Alby Berman, a spokesman for Takata, said the switch to an ammonium-nitrate-based propellant was not driven by cost considerations. Instead, the company's engineers determined that the compound produced gas more efficiently with fewer emissions."

So no, it was not Mexican factory workers, FFS.
Poor design by Takata was obviously a major contributing factor. Here is the NHTSA's official root cause statement:
In the subject Takata inflators, the non-desiccated PSAN propellant is affected by repeated high temperature cycling in the presence of moisture and it is contained in an inflator assembly that does not adequately prevent moisture intrusion under conditions of high humidity.

So the switch to ammonium nitrate + temp + lack of a desiccant material added + moisture = failure

There were reports however of the initial exposure to moisture being traced back to the Mexico plant, "An investigation later showed that manufacturing issues at Takata’s Mexico facility introduced excessive moisture into the inflator during assembly, leading to the problem."

Another quote about that facility, "According to documents reviewed by Reuters, Takata says that rust, bad welds, and even chewing gum dropped into at least one inflator are also at fault. The same documents show that in 2002, Takata’s plant in Mexico allowed a defect rate that was “six to eight times above” acceptable limits, or roughly 60 to 80 defective parts for every 1 million airbag inflators shipped. The company’s study has yet to reach a final conclusion and report the findings to NHTSA."

Please don't take offense, just trying to get some additional facts out there on the subject. BTW, if you look up photos of the San Luis Potosi plant, many of the people look German to me anyway, but maybe I shouldn't assume
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      03-10-2020, 02:44 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
You're saying developing nations like Mexico have a culture that doesn't allow them to care about their work and don't view quality in the same way as developed countries. If developed nations with large auto industries like Germany, Japan, and America have such high standards and CARE so much about what they do, then why would they trust some dirty developing nation workers to assemble their cars?

If I cared so much about my products, then would I entrust someone I knew doesn't have high standards to build them?
Cause of globalism,

The ppl who runthese giant corps are all cultists of the globalist credo, they get cheap labour and tax incentives from the host govts

But nothing is done for the ppl of the host country, only ppl like bolshevik Bernie and pelosi and ofc corn pop biden get to wet their beaks

But the product itself gets lost in translation

And if having an "M" car is such a big deal, and means something, then i dont think this mexico plant will translate into the M lvl of quality ppl expect, not like it used to anyway
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      03-10-2020, 02:56 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the storm breaks View Post
Poor design by Takata was obviously a major contributing factor. Here is the NHTSA's official root cause statement:
In the subject Takata inflators, the non-desiccated PSAN propellant is affected by repeated high temperature cycling in the presence of moisture and it is contained in an inflator assembly that does not adequately prevent moisture intrusion under conditions of high humidity.

So the switch to ammonium nitrate + temp + lack of a desiccant material added + moisture = failure

There were reports however of the initial exposure to moisture being traced back to the Mexico plant, "An investigation later showed that manufacturing issues at Takata’s Mexico facility introduced excessive moisture into the inflator during assembly, leading to the problem."

Another quote about that facility, "According to documents reviewed by Reuters, Takata says that rust, bad welds, and even chewing gum dropped into at least one inflator are also at fault. The same documents show that in 2002, Takata’s plant in Mexico allowed a defect rate that was “six to eight times above” acceptable limits, or roughly 60 to 80 defective parts for every 1 million airbag inflators shipped. The company’s study has yet to reach a final conclusion and report the findings to NHTSA."

Please don't take offense, just trying to get some additional facts out there on the subject. BTW, if you look up photos of the San Luis Potosi plant, many of the people look German to me anyway, but maybe I shouldn't assume
If it is too hot and humid to make airbags in Mexico it would be too hot in the southern US. If they did not control for temperature and humidity at the factory that is on takata.
This thread is about bigots not trusting Mexicans to make BMWs, not about regional climates.
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      03-10-2020, 03:00 PM   #88
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I am not bothered, specifically, about the next generation M2 being made in Mexico - I am sure that the folks will be trained effectively and put out a good product.

I would be interested, however, in seeing how steep the learning curve is for any factory making a (relatively) low volume car like the M2, and in a new factory with new workers. I wonder if there will be some glitches and QC issues across the board, at least in the early stages of production.

BMW obviously cares about its reputation and brand image, so in the event that there are issues because the factory is new and the workers are getting up to speed, I would image that those issues would be remedied quickly.
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