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      03-16-2020, 04:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Very true, but it is analogous to the shift to all electronic sounds, vocals, and devices in the music industry vs. good old instruments (guitars, drums, etc) and REAL vocals (no autotune). The new stuff is accurate and quick to reproduce, but it loses the authenticity and experience of the old analog stuff.
It's absolutely different. The power delivery is kinda bizarre feeling. An immediate slam of go with the throttle. My E90 of course has to have its neck wrung, which is fun and has its charm, but I guess I'm enamored by the efficiency of it. You feel like the throttle is connected to the wheels themselves, which it basically is, and you FEEL that. That's why it's so weird and foreign. It's not the rubber band turbo throttle response (used to drive modded 1 N55) or the "immediacy" of the S65 throttle. It truly redefines it and makes you reset your barometer to the degree thatif anyone drives the car and doesn't say "holy shit" with the first stab of the throttle I'd be very surprised. Might not be everyone's cup of tea but I'm pretty smitten.

And on the music front, I've got a couple amps, pedalboard, and all that, and I typically pick up my Martin 000 acoustic when I want to jam. Just pick it up and go. Raw, unfiltered, no fiddling with knobs, setting my reverb just right, whatever. To being it full circle, the Tesla sort of also offers that - simplicity.
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      03-16-2020, 04:18 PM   #24
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This just sounds like a fancy way of saying they're axing the manual transmission and that all M cars will be AWD very soon.

Questionable grille aside, we should all buy a manual RWD M3/M4.

I don't think they'll be able to remove the DCT for UKL performance cars since transverse torque converter automatics are pretty bad.
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      03-16-2020, 07:15 PM   #25
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I think it's mostly fake news. Just old models getting phased out.
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      03-16-2020, 07:36 PM   #26
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No combustion engines in new cars then i am not buying new cars anymore.

Second hand and keep then for a very long period!
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      03-16-2020, 08:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
All G12 M760Li are 4wd but some Rollers are still rwd.

I'm not sure when the new Mini will be coming but as they just launched the new Mini-E and I haven't heard anything you'd assume it is at least 3 years away. I didn't realise the new platform was going to be unique for them. If that is the case then why do we have to put up with the UKL cars....sigh.
If I heard correctly, Mini will be electric only in the future. I guess time will tell. It would be a good platform to convert at this point. as long as they keep the current design language. If they can't keep it perhaps a subtle evolution of it rather than a revolutionary change. It would be welcomed in my book.
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      03-16-2020, 09:46 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ParkNuts View Post
If none of you have driven the Model 3 Performance (I have), you owe it to yourself to see just what it feels like to drive a sporty electric car. I have an E90 M3 ZCP and will be making the move to electric. Absolutely shocking how quick and feature packed the car is. Sure, I'll miss my M but recognize what the future will be, and after getting a taste of it, I'm joining the pack.
Previously owned a E92 M3 and F80. Now with a Model 3 Performance. Won't be tempted at all by a G80. Loving every minute of the future
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      03-16-2020, 10:19 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ParkNuts View Post
It's absolutely different. The power delivery is kinda bizarre feeling. An immediate slam of go with the throttle. My E90 of course has to have its neck wrung, which is fun and has its charm, but I guess I'm enamored by the efficiency of it. You feel like the throttle is connected to the wheels themselves, which it basically is, and you FEEL that. That's why it's so weird and foreign. It's not the rubber band turbo throttle response (used to drive modded 1 N55) or the "immediacy" of the S65 throttle. It truly redefines it and makes you reset your barometer to the degree thatif anyone drives the car and doesn't say "holy shit" with the first stab of the throttle I'd be very surprised. Might not be everyone's cup of tea but I'm pretty smitten.

And on the music front, I've got a couple amps, pedalboard, and all that, and I typically pick up my Martin 000 acoustic when I want to jam. Just pick it up and go. Raw, unfiltered, no fiddling with knobs, setting my reverb just right, whatever. To being it full circle, the Tesla sort of also offers that - simplicity.
I've been in virtually all cars, including multiple electrics (i.e. Tesla). Very fast. The torque is insane...even better than some of the craziest exotics I've been in. But Teslas are numb. They are artificial. They are quiet. The interiors SUCK. The ergonomics inside are awful.

Here is another analogy. Slow and noisy sex or fast and quiet sex? I'll take my slow, loud, manual transmission over that fast, quiet, numb Tesla for YEARS to come.
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      03-17-2020, 01:58 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
I've been in virtually all cars, including multiple electrics (i.e. Tesla). Very fast. The torque is insane...even better than some of the craziest exotics I've been in. But Teslas are numb. They are artificial. They are quiet. The interiors SUCK. The ergonomics inside are awful.

Here is another analogy. Slow and noisy sex or fast and quiet sex? I'll take my slow, loud, manual transmission over that fast, quiet, numb Tesla for YEARS to come.
I never really understood it when people described Tesla's as lifeless until your sex analogy. Cudos. I'm staying away from Tesla thanks to you.
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      03-17-2020, 04:34 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Here is another analogy. Slow and noisy sex or fast and quiet sex? I'll take my slow, loud, manual transmission over that fast, quiet, numb Tesla for YEARS to come.
In the end, it ain't the speed and noise that matters - it's the passion and visceral involvement.

Happy wife, happy life - Happy spouse, happy house.
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      03-17-2020, 05:07 AM   #32
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I hope v8 in m550 and m850 stays alive. For me it was the last straw to stay with BMW this time around. Unless they finally come out with a decent electric car like the i4 they showed, most models/things got boring designs and engines/sounds.
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      03-17-2020, 05:19 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
I've been in virtually all cars, including multiple electrics (i.e. Tesla). Very fast. The torque is insane...even better than some of the craziest exotics I've been in. But Teslas are numb. They are artificial. They are quiet. The interiors SUCK. The ergonomics inside are awful.

Here is another analogy. Slow and noisy sex or fast and quiet sex? I'll take my slow, loud, manual transmission over that fast, quiet, numb Tesla for YEARS to come.
Slow and loud can be had in electric car if done right. I haven't been in one but tycan seems to be a good option. I am sure more cars will come to beat Tesla very soon. After all, they have to as Europe goes electric in like 15 years and for car industry that's like tomorrow.
I am actually surprised how BMW mismanaged their i brand. They had their i8 and i3 early on and nothing came out of it. Well maybe i4 will be it but seriously that i8 could have been the future for them if delivered right.
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      03-17-2020, 10:31 AM   #34
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The future will be three and four cylinder engines propelling the front wheels and an electric motor in the rear adding 100hp to 400hp depending on the "M'ness" of the vehicle. Battery packs will be modular. The same architecture will give us pure electric vehicles. Gone will be the I6s, V8s, and V12s.

Most likely setup:

M5: 250hp I4 with a 400hp electric motor
M550i: 250hp I4 with a 250hp electric motor
540i: 250hp I4 with a 100hp electric motor (similar to current 530e)
530i: Just the 250hp I4

You've gone from four engines to one; four drive trains to two.
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      03-17-2020, 10:53 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palpatine_us View Post
The future will be three and four cylinder engines propelling the front wheels and an electric motor in the rear adding 100hp to 400hp depending on the "M'ness" of the vehicle. Battery packs will be modular. The same architecture will give us pure electric vehicles. Gone will be the I6s, V8s, and V12s.

Most likely setup:

M5: 250hp I4 with a 400hp electric motor
M550i: 250hp I4 with a 250hp electric motor
540i: 250hp I4 with a 100hp electric motor (similar to current 530e)
530i: Just the 250hp I4

You've gone from four engines to one; four drive trains to two.
That makes me sick to my stomach lol
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      03-17-2020, 11:24 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Very true, but it is analogous to the shift to all electronic sounds, vocals, and devices in the music industry vs. good old instruments (guitars, drums, etc) and REAL vocals (no autotune). The new stuff is accurate and quick to reproduce, but it loses the authenticity and experience of the old analog stuff.
Translation - it's boring.
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      03-17-2020, 11:41 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palpatine_us View Post
The future will be three and four cylinder engines propelling the front wheels and an electric motor in the rear adding 100hp to 400hp depending on the "M'ness" of the vehicle. Battery packs will be modular. The same architecture will give us pure electric vehicles. Gone will be the I6s, V8s, and V12s.

Most likely setup:

M5: 250hp I4 with a 400hp electric motor
M550i: 250hp I4 with a 250hp electric motor
540i: 250hp I4 with a 100hp electric motor (similar to current 530e)
530i: Just the 250hp I4

You've gone from four engines to one; four drive trains to two.
Even if something like this happens - and it could, although I strongly doubt in the exact way you describe - it is at least one generation beyond the next one (which starts in late 2022) away. It could conceivably even be a generation after that, which would be in the mid-2030s.

The V12 is gone by 2023 at the latest, and the V8 could start phase out any time this decade. But the I6 is being heavily developed today as part of upcoming M45e power system. It's got a lot of life left.
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      03-17-2020, 12:48 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Even if something like this happens - and it could, although I strongly doubt in the exact way you describe - it is at least one generation beyond the next one (which starts in late 2022) away. It could conceivably even be a generation after that, which would be in the mid-2030s.

The V12 is gone by 2023 at the latest, and the V8 could start phase out any time this decade. But the I6 is being heavily developed today as part of upcoming M45e power system. It's got a lot of life left.
I hear BMW is giving the V8 one final lease on life by electrifying it (48V mild-hybrid). This should show up on the M850i, X7 M50i, X5 M50i & X6 M50i & probably (not completely sure)X8 M50i. For sure the V8 will die with EOP of these models (G14, G15, G16, G07, G05 & G06). Starting with the next generation 7 series (G70) the V8 will be replaced by an I-6 based M-Performance plug-in hybrid drive train using BMW 5th generation battery technology producing more power & torque than the current n63 V8 & a reliable 60+ mile pure electric range.
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      03-17-2020, 01:58 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by gmag View Post
I hear BMW is giving the V8 one final lease on life by electrifying it (48V mild-hybrid). This should show up on the M850i, X7 M50i, X5 M50i & X6 M50i & probably (not completely sure)X8 M50i. For sure the V8 will die with EOP of these models (G14, G15, G16, G07, G05 & G06).
I agree that BMW will apply 48V technology to their V8 engines soon.

Note, I think it's important to be specific about which V8 engine we are talking about since there are two - the N63 and the S63. From your model list, I can infer the language "the V8" to mean "the N63", but there is a degree of ambiguity.

Even leaving the S63 (and its known successor, the S68) out of it, I believe that it is too early to declare the N63 dead (including no successor) at the end of the current generation of vehicles. While the number of V8-powered models in the lineup is very likely to decrease, it may not go to zero. Notice that both Mercedes and Audi have used a transitional approach. Many V8 models have been replaced by I6/V6 models, but others have not. Mercedes has the GLE 580, GLS 580, and S560 while Audi has the SQ7, SQ8, and S8. If BMW follows a similar model - and I am not saying they will, but they certainly could - the next generation X5/X6 M50i, X7 M50i, and 750i (renamed M750i?), for example, might retain V8 engines.

Quote:
Starting with the next generation 7 series (G70) the V8 will be replaced by an I-6 based M-Performance plug-in hybrid drive train using BMW 5th generation battery technology producing more power & torque than the current n63 V8 & a reliable 60+ mile pure electric range.
While I would not be surprised at all to see a G70 M745e (possibly instead called M750e) I6 PHEV model with upwards of 500hp, I am not convinced a 750i or M750i model will be out of the picture. Also, even if/when the latter are gone, BMW would have a possible answer in an S68-powered M7. In other words I don't believe it likely at this point for the 7 Series to lose both V12 and V8 power all at once. There will be a slower phase out than that.
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      03-17-2020, 02:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
I've been in virtually all cars, including multiple electrics (i.e. Tesla). Very fast. The torque is insane...even better than some of the craziest exotics I've been in. But Teslas are numb. They are artificial. They are quiet. The interiors SUCK. The ergonomics inside are awful.

Here is another analogy. Slow and noisy sex or fast and quiet sex? I'll take my slow, loud, manual transmission over that fast, quiet, numb Tesla for YEARS to come.
I'm completely ok with electric cars and the noise isn't the biggest deal. My only issue with Tesla is the way it's so fast but never manages to feel fun. Add in noticeably bad build quality and a really crappy interior and I made my decision. Dropping $60k on a Model3 Performance just wasn't in the cards for me this time around.

Everything I'm reading about the Taycan has me excited for the future of electric cars, once the companies that know how to build fun cars start building them.
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      03-17-2020, 06:08 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Straight6Dave View Post
I'm completely ok with electric cars and the noise isn't the biggest deal. My only issue with Tesla is the way it's so fast but never manages to feel fun. Add in noticeably bad build quality and a really crappy interior and I made my decision. Dropping $60k on a Model3 Performance just wasn't in the cards for me this time around.

Everything I'm reading about the Taycan has me excited for the future of electric cars, once the companies that know how to build fun cars start building them.
Taycan is $105K (no one will ever get this car) to $240K! I've been in one. It's not as spacious as it would seem and the tech is too much in the interior. Not simple. Not intuitive. Everything is touch screen and annoying. More tech is not always a good thing.
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      03-17-2020, 06:42 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Previously owned a E92 M3 and F80. Now with a Model 3 Performance. Won't be tempted at all by a G80. Loving every minute of the future
Are you me?! I also went from E92 M3 to F80 M3 (with a F30 340i in between) and now Model 3 Performance. I really love my Model 3 but if I could have a second car right now, it would be an E92 M3 for sure.
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      03-17-2020, 07:48 PM   #43
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Are you me?! I also went from E92 M3 to F80 M3 (with a F30 340i in between) and now Model 3 Performance. I really love my Model 3 but if I could have a second car right now, it would be an E92 M3 for sure.
I had an ActiveHybrid 3 in between the E92 M3 and F80

I'll admit, the only car I've ever owned that literally made the hair on my arms raise up, was my E92 M3 when I would punch it 0-7500rpm. Also, it felt so planted to the road. But some of this must be rose-colored glasses/memory. Because I sure do love my Model 3 Performance, and it's a wonderful daily driver.
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      03-17-2020, 07:53 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
.....BMW would have a possible answer in an S68-powered M7. In other words I don't believe it likely at this point for the 7 Series to lose both V12 and V8 power all at once. There will be a slower phase out than that.
Why in the world would BMW introduce a G70-based M7, when a Tesla Model S would be available for less money, and absolutely smoke it from a performance standpoint? And let's not pretend that the 7-series interior quality (at a much higher price) will win over buyers.
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