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      03-24-2020, 01:17 PM   #1
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[CNBC Video]: Why BMW And Mercedes Made Cheap Cars That Failed

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      03-24-2020, 03:29 PM   #2
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I see lots of clas and glas around here, they are hardly a failure. I predict that 2 series gran coupe will sell well here, too
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      03-25-2020, 08:25 AM   #3
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I see lots of clas and glas around here, they are hardly a failure. I predict that 2 series gran coupe will sell well here, too
Around here also. I also share your prediction. I suspect that most buyers of the 2 series gran coupe won't even realize that they are buying a front wheel drive car, not a rear wheel drive car and one that has no relationship to the RWD 2 Series models.
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      03-25-2020, 08:45 AM   #4
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Around here also. I also share your prediction. I suspect that most buyers of the 2 series gran coupe won't even realize that they are buying a front wheel drive car, not a rear wheel drive car and one that has no relationship to the RWD 2 Series models.
When the OG 1 hatch came out in the EU BMW did some survey and something like 80% of people thought it was FWD.

So yeah you're right. Only petrol heads care about RWD. We are a smaller and smaller market segment as general car buying public cares about safety, comfort, space, and being trendy.
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      03-25-2020, 09:14 AM   #5
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I see lots of clas and glas around here, they are hardly a failure. I predict that 2 series gran coupe will sell well here, too
Note that the point of the video is not to assert that Mercedes' (and BMW's and Audi's, and other luxury automakers') current lineup of entry level vehicles represent failure.

The point of the video is to explain why, even though these premium automakers didn't have success with their initial attempts at introducing affordable products to the marketplace, they persisted because they knew the value of attracting and selling to customers at a young age.

Furthermore, these companies know that, even though today's models still face criticism, it is worthwhile to continue in these segments because any alleged loss in revenue due to "harming brand value" is more than made up for by the additional unit sales over the life of these loyal customers. As the narrators says in conclusion, "It's a numbers game".
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      03-25-2020, 09:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
Around here also. I also share your prediction. I suspect that most buyers of the 2 series gran coupe won't even realize that they are buying a front wheel drive car, not a rear wheel drive car and one that has no relationship to the RWD 2 Series models.
I'm buying a m235 gran coupe and am fully aware its fwd biased and really don't care. It will go like scoot for my needs and is cheaper than my m2 now...I'll bank the difference over next 2 3 yrs then maybe jump next gen m2 or what not.
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      03-25-2020, 09:57 AM   #7
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I'm buying a m235 gran coupe and am fully aware its fwd biased and really don't care. It will go like scoot for my needs and is cheaper than my m2 now...I'll bank the difference over next 2 3 yrs then maybe jump next gen m2 or what not.
Pefectly fine. I wasn't trying to criticize the car (although I do think it should have been labeled a 1 series) but merely commenting that many (but obviously not all) buyers won't know or care whether it is FWD or RWD.
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      03-25-2020, 11:26 AM   #8
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Pefectly fine. I wasn't trying to criticize the car (although I do think it should have been labeled a 1 series) but merely commenting that many (but obviously not all) buyers won't know or care whether it is FWD or RWD.
And even among those who do know and care about FWD, it's not necessarily a deal breaker. I think there are a ton of people like myself who feel that FWD and FWD based AWD cars lose something over their RWD based counterparts. However, that doesn't automatically mean that all FWD based cars are bad. Would I own any number of Type R hondas? Happily and enthusiastically! Same goes for the more fun VAG products. Would those cars be cooler if they'd been built on a RWD platform from the ground up? Probably, but that doesn't mean they're not still good in their current form.

It's rare to find a car that is 100 percent what you want, usually it's 80-90 percent there with the buyer making a little compromise on a few things. FWD could potentially be one of the things, provided the rest of the package is compelling enough.
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      03-25-2020, 01:23 PM   #9
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I drove a Golf R for over two years. In poor winter conditions the Haldex system was seamless and it handled the weather no worse than full time AWD vehicles (EVO X, STI) I've owned in the past. It's not as good a setup on the track where it's FWD bias lends to understeer but in everyday driving it blew those cars away and the reality is most buyers are buying these cars for everyday commuting.
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