[Pictor]

Since this question comes up often enough I thought I would just leave this here which has a good writeup on DCFC vs Level2 Charging.

https://insideevs.com/news/717997/dc...-battery-life/

[LVBMW]

Someone just posted their battery health on the forum in another thread after many, many miles almost totally charged with DCFC, and the battery was still very healthy.

[exxxviii]

Ha, good basic read. But the writer blew all credibility in his first sentence when he called DCFC "Level 3." There is no such thing as Level 3 charging according to any standard. (Well there is, but it is 3-phase AC charging.) /rant. InsideEVs seems to make this mistake often.

I have seen several recent references to Tesla data showing that DCFC does not degrade battery as much as was believed a decade ago.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

Ha, good basic read. But the writer blew all credibility in his first sentence when he called DCFC "Level 3." There is no such thing as Level 3 charging according to any standard. (Well there is, but it is 3-phase AC charging.) /rant. InsideEVs seems to make this mistake often.

I have seen several recent references to Tesla data showing that DCFC does not degrade battery as much as was believed a decade ago.

Agreed but he did put it in quotes. I think the intent was correct but he didn't explain that calling it level 3 is wrong. But the same could be said about "Chargers" when talking about an EVSE.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by Pictor

But the same could be said about "Chargers" when talking about an EVSE.

True that.

[ricerboi]

I think the error margin for the Bimmerflow % is 1-1.5%, but probably a good, cheap and accessible option fot us to monitor everything.

Taken a couple min ago. I was 92.3% last week so it will go up and down a bit.

[NomoTesla]

7%-8% capacity loss in only 2-3 years seems excessive

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

7%-8% capacity loss in only 2-3 years seems excessive

The problem with 2-3 years metric is that the battery cares about charging cycles and less so about time. The other problem is with the questionable accuracy of the tool.

The ICE equivalent might be comparing engine hours vs miles driven.

Maybe we'll get charge cycles included as a metric at some point in the future.

[exxxviii]

I think the big picture question is... does this even remotely matter???

• Battery degradation is non-liner over time (irrespective of charging patterns), so fretting about degradation in year 1 or 2 may not relate to year 4 or 5.
• Most batteries are warranted to around 80% degradation, so automakers generally expect them to do much better.
• The battery data we are starting to see show batteries doing far better than anyone imagined.
• Realistically, most batteries will out-live their cars.

[ricerboi]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

7%-8% capacity loss in only 2-3 years seems excessive

Remember I’m probably one of the most extreme cases. I’m just milking the 2 year free EA for now and in 3 months (starting around 65k miles, my charging habits will flip to 80% L2 which will flatten the degradation curve. I suspect many owners who have free EA and no L2 at home are doing something similar to me, albeit with less miles.

I’m at peace with this loss (better than I imagined) the first 2 years and I’m ok working with 85-90% the next few years. I had to finance not lease to get the tax credit so I’m just going to keep the car for myself. Too much depreciation to even consider selling when I paid MSRP.

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

I think the big picture question is... does this even remotely matter???

• Battery degradation is non-liner over time (irrespective of charging patterns), so fretting about degradation in year 1 or 2 may not relate to year 4 or 5.
• Most batteries are warranted to around 80% degradation, so automakers generally expect them to do much better.
• The battery data we are starting to see show batteries doing far better than anyone imagined.
• Realistically, most batteries will out-live their cars.

I think you meant to say 20% degradation. 80% degradation would mean you only have 20% capacity left. The 2022 and 2023 iX are warranted against degradation in excess of 30% from new, meaning you would have 70% or less of the range @ 100% SOC you had when new.

Curiously, I read in the forums that the 30% degradation warranty was removed starting with the 2024 models. I wonder why BMW did that.

Originally Posted by ricerboi

I’m at peace with this loss (better than I imagined) the first 2 years and I’m ok working with 85-90% the next few years. I had to finance not lease to get the tax credit so I’m just going to keep the car for myself. Too much depreciation to even consider selling when I paid MSRP.

Fortunately, the losses tend to be higher earlier in the ownership cycle. I also paid MSRP, received the grandfathered federal tax credit, and deducted the full purchase price of the vehicle from my business income using Section 179 IRS rules for vehicles in excess of 6,000 lbs GVWR.

I owned my Model S for 9 years and my Prius for 7 years before that. I own and drive my cars for a long time. Depreciation is meaningless to me because I always get my money's worth!