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      10-27-2014, 05:51 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
1. However that does not mitigate the threat of Ebola. It is actually very contagious.

2. So the survival rate in the US is not 100%

3. To compare the lethality of the Flu to that of Ebola (or to suggest that the Flu is more deadly than Ebola) is insane on your part. Remember when you said how you 'preferred numbers to rhetoric' in an earlier post?

4. Quarantines are recommended for just about every type of contagious disease/virus.
1. No, unlike the flu, it's not. NO ONE has gotten Ebola in this country from casual contact. Even people who lived with the one dead Ebola case while he was symptomatic have passed the danger period and are disease free. You're being conned by unscrupulous journalists and politicians.

2. The survival rate for people (health providers, who likely had inadequate protection from their patient) who have gotten the disease in the US is indeed 100%. The one dead guy got it in Africa. And was sent home from the hospital when he showed up sick with prominent symptoms. The delay in treatment was quite likely responsible for his death.

3. I do like numbers, which are the basis for what I said. Here's the data on lethality for ordinary Americans. Deaths from flu acquired here - 23,000. Deaths from Ebola acquired here. Zero.

Get your flu shot.

4. Not for healthy people. Infectious disease specialists have said the quarantines of healthy aid workers returning from Africa are not only useless, they increase the risk the disease presents here. The guidelines you cited refer to sick people.

I do cite qualified experts. In most everything (including cars), expert knowledge trumps amateur gut responses, every time. Studying the views of qualified experts beats the heck out of being manipulated into fear by unscrupulous journalists and politicians. And then supporting useless and likely counterproductive travel bans and quarantines of healthy people.

Last edited by 128Convertibleguy; 10-27-2014 at 06:37 PM..
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      10-27-2014, 07:36 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
1. No, unlike the flu, it's not. NO ONE has gotten Ebola in this country from casual contact. Even people who lived with the one dead Ebola case while he was symptomatic have passed the danger period and are disease free. You're being conned by unscrupulous journalists and politicians.
Definition of contagious - (of a disease) spread from one person or organism to another by direct or indirect contact. Common synonym: infectious.

Again from the WHO's website, because I know you abhor rhetoric, even though your last post consisted entirely of rhetoric with no supporting evidence:

Quote:
How do people become infected with the virus?

Infection occurs from direct contact through broken skin or mucous membranes with the blood, or other bodily fluids or secretions (stool, urine, saliva, semen) of infected people. Infection can also occur if broken skin or mucous membranes of a healthy person come into contact with environments that have become contaminated with an Ebola patient’s infectious fluids such as soiled clothing, bed linen, or used needles.
So whether or not the transmission of a disease/virus was through casual contact or not has nothing to do with classifying it as contagious.

This argument was entirely petty and worthless on your part, but again, I enjoy disproving your assertions.


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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post

2. The survival rate for people (health providers, who likely had inadequate protection from their patient) who have gotten the disease in the US is indeed 100%. The one dead guy got it in Africa. And was sent home from the hospital when he showed up sick with prominent symptoms. The delay in treatment was quite likely responsible for his death.
It really doesn't matter where the first Ebola fatality (in America) was from...he died here in the US. Delayed treatment for Ebola has been a major reason for many deaths in West Africa...we aren't modifying their stats because of that.

You are trying to hide behind semantics on this one. Besides patient #1 who has died in Texas, only a few other people have contracted the virus in the US....but the survival rate overall (across the globe) is nowhere near 100%. It's anywhere from 50% to 10% depending on the region.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

Excluding patient #1, your claim on 100% survival here in the US will only hold up until the laws of probability go into effect.

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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
3. I do like numbers, which are the basis for what I said. Here's the data on lethality for ordinary Americans. Deaths from flu acquired here - 23,000. Deaths from Ebola acquired here. Zero.

Get your flu shot.
5,000 deaths in west Africa over a two month period, and at least 10,000 more cases...those are additional numbers for you.

Also don't forget who gave you the correct data on how many die annually from the flu in the US...where did you originally get 50,000 from??? It wasn't Mr. Klaine was it?

Sarcastic reminders aside, you really are full of yourself if you honestly think that the average American should be more afraid of dying from the Flu rather than Ebola.

If you have the flu...go see the doctor. There is a commonly available cure that is quite effective for it. Chances are very good that you'll be okay. Most Americans have already gotten their flu shot and other common vaccines (polio). If you have Ebola...it's anyone's guess because there is no proven cure yet.

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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
4. Not for healthy people. Infectious disease specialists have said the quarantines of healthy aid workers returning from Africa are not only useless, they increase the risk the disease presents here. The guidelines you cited refer to sick people.
Figuring out who is healthy and who is infected, with multitudes of people leaving and entering West Africa on a daily basis is easier said than done. Every state governor has the legal authority to contain infectious (or contagious) diseases/viruses like these, though there are slight variations between the states. The only way these state governments can determine who is infected is by bringing people in for medical examination.

From a logistical point of view, this isn't simply about quarantining people (both healthy and infected) this is about figuring who is even at risk to begin with.

The infected doctor from NY was traveling around NYC for several days before he was finally quarantined. These governors aren't simply making these kinds of decisions to prove a point or show up President Obama...they are trying to contain the crisis at their individual state level, as they are obligated by law to do.

And FYI, it seems most if not all states are using common sense and are in fact releasing certain quarantined patients once they have been deemed to be virus-free for a period of time. New Jersey for example:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/27/health...ola/index.html

The argument that quarantining medical personnel returning from Africa will discourage additional volunteer efforts is crap...
a) the federal government can set up a volunteer transportation/screening program for would-be volunteers...in fact that would make sense if the Ebola Czar would do something useful like that and coordinate a national level program

b) Americans who volunteer for Ebola duty in Africa were already aware of the risks involved, and if they weren't they had no business volunteering in the first place

Edit: Does it not strike you as odd or inappropriate that this President appointed a political operative (Ron Klain), some might call 'hack', as the Ebola Czar...not a doctor or medical expert, but a political strategist. That should tell you a lot about this administration's primary goal right now (Public Relations damage control)...right before the elections mind you.

Last edited by Dalko43; 10-27-2014 at 08:06 PM..
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      10-28-2014, 08:58 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
Not at all. She was quarantined by Chris Christie for no good reason at all, which was the only thing she was suing about. Doctors have said that quarantine was not justified. Just the threat of the lawsuit caused Christie to retreat. Just another politician trying to fan the flames of fear.

It's interesting that right wing conservatives are happy to throw constitutional civil liberties (the right of privacy, the right to due process, the right to vote, etc.) overboard, when it suits them. And happy to have government control our bodies and our lives, when it suits them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...onstitutional/
Or, you could make the case that she chose to go to a Hot Zone country, and this is what you have to do when you come back - "liberty" doesn't mean "no responsibility." Kind of like when you set foot in an airport, your "liberties" are suspended - you can be searched, etc. at the pleasure of the government, because you chose to fly.

Many doctors say that quarantines are absolutely justified. Obama has stated that if Ebola was in the US, we would find a cure for it - thereby casting suspicion on his motives. This issue has become completely politicized, at the risk of the country's safety.

UPDATE: Here is a list of Doctors who are urging Obama to implement a travel ban and quarantine of people coming from West Africa BEFORE they enter the country:

http://roe.house.gov/uploadedfiles/d...tter_ebola.pdf
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      10-28-2014, 09:09 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
3. I do like numbers, which are the basis for what I said. Here's the data on lethality for ordinary Americans. Deaths from flu acquired here - 23,000. Deaths from Ebola acquired here. Zero.

Get your flu shot.
Whoops - wrong again. Flu stats in the US are a mess, and the number of flu deaths is estimated by some to be in the low hundreds each year:

"...only a small proportion of deaths in either of these two categories are estimated to be influenza-related. CDC estimated that only 8.5% of all pneumonia and influenza deaths and only 2.1% of all respiratory and circulatory deaths were influenza-related."

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease...onia-influenza

"The CDC's decision to play up flu deaths dates back a decade, when it realized the public wasn't following its advice on the flu vaccine. During the 2003 flu season "the manufacturers were telling us that they weren't receiving a lot of orders for vaccine,"Dr. Glen Nowak, associate director for communications at CDC's National Immunization Program, told National Public Radio. "It really did look like we needed to do something to encourage people to get a flu shot."

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrenc...b_4661442.html
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      10-28-2014, 10:34 AM   #71
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Our service members who were deployed to West Africa in support of the Ebola crisis are now REQUIRED to spend 21 days in confinement in Italy (funny how the discussion returns there) And the General in charge is leading by example, he is there now after only OBSERVING operations. I don't know whether he actually went into any hospital settings, but they are not taking any risks. No contact with family until after the 21 days.

Yes, they signed up. So did the medical volunteers. I applaud both groups equally, it's something I would not be able to do if I had the skills.
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      10-28-2014, 01:20 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
"...only a small proportion of deaths in either of these two categories are estimated to be influenza-related. CDC estimated that only 8.5% of all pneumonia and influenza deaths and only 2.1% of all respiratory and circulatory deaths were influenza-related."

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease...onia-influenza
Heavy sigh.

The percentages refer to the total number of pneumonia, respiratory, and circulatory deaths. Which number in the millions.

Here's what YOUR OWN CITE says about flu deaths, just a couple of paragraphs above.

"The number of seasonal influenza-associated (i.e., seasonal flu-related) deaths varies from year to year because flu seasons are unpredictable and often fluctuate in length and severity. Therefore, a single estimate cannot be used to summarize influenza-associated deaths. Instead, a range of estimated deaths is a better way to represent the variability and unpredictability of flu. CDC estimates that from the 1976-1977 season to the 2006-2007 flu season, flu-associated deaths ranged from a low of about 3,000 to a high of about 49,000 people."

The number I (and Dalko) used of 23,000 is very good ballpark number.

Fauxnews propagandists (probably the source for your "few hundred") are not good sources.

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      10-28-2014, 01:35 PM   #73
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Does it not strike you as odd or inappropriate that this President appointed a political operative (Ron Klain), some might call 'hack', as the Ebola Czar...not a doctor or medical expert, but a political strategist.
Did you not read the post where I criticized the choice?

But, as far as politicization is concerned, the real damage being done is by the unscrupulous politicians and journalists who are whipping up fear. Ebola may be "contagious" by the definition, but it's not very. NO ONE is this country has been infected through casual contact, and many had quite close contact with the man who died, while he was symptomatic.

It's a political talking point for some on the far right. But Ebola risk in this country to the general public is very small. The only way that gets much worse is if we let the disease run rampant in Africa. Discouraging health professionals to go there by a ridiculous quarantine procedure set in place by politicians against expert advice is one good very way to make that happen.

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      10-28-2014, 01:56 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
Did you not read the post where I criticized the choice?
I did, but in the majority of posts, you only seemed concerned with politicization by Republicans, and made hardly any mention of what is going on the Democratic side.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
But, as far as politicization is concerned, the real villains are the unscrupulous politicians and journalists who are whipping up fear.
Certain republicans are pointing out perceived deficiencies with the administration's handling of this crisis...call it whatever you want, but this is common in US politics and everyone, including Democrats, is guilty of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
Ebola may be "contagious" by the definition, but it's not very. NO ONE is this country has been infected through casual contact, and many had quite close contact with the man who died, while he was symptomatic.
You are willing to acknowledge yet another inaccurate claim on your part...this is progress.

First it was '50,000 Americans die annually from the flu', and I corrected you....then it was 'Ebola is not contagious', and I corrected you....

Do you see a trend here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
It's a political talking point for some on the far right. But Ebola risk in this country to the general public is very small. The only way that gets much worse is if we let the disease run rampant in Africa. Discouraging health professionals to go there by a ridiculous quarantine procedure set in place by politicians against expert advice is one good way to let that occur.
I have acknowledge from the very beginning of this back-and-forth between you and I that certain politicians are using Ebola as a political football....but that doesn't take away from the real dangers exist with this virus.

The chances of a country-wide Ebola infection are likely small so long as the state and federal governments stay on top of things... but to say that the Flu is a more dangerous virus to have than Ebola is absolutely ridiculous and you know it .

Quarantine is a common procedure not just to contain contagious viruses/diseases but also to identify who is even infected to begin with. Again from the WHO's website:

Quote:
Outbreak containment measures including prompt and safe burial of the dead, identifying people who may have been in contact with someone infected with Ebola, monitoring the health of contacts for 21 days , the importance of separating the healthy from the sick to prevent further spread, the importance of good hygiene and maintaining a clean environment.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

FYI the Federal government (DOD) is planning on using quarantine on troops returning from West Africa, and already has done so for 1 officer:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebo...-areas-n234916

All these defenders of the President who rail against state-level quarantines, certain medical experts included, are crying over nothing. The US is sending DOD personnel to aid in the fight against Ebola...as are other nations. Most of the international major players know the dangers of letting Ebola run rampant in Africa and are acting accordingly.

If the US federal government wants to encourage more volunteer support, it should setup a national level program that will handle the logistics and medical screening for these personnel going overseas and returning. It's as simple as that, and in fact is exactly the type of endeavor that a FEDERAL government should coordinate.

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      10-28-2014, 03:07 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
Heavy sigh.

The percentages refer to the total number of pneumonia, respiratory, and circulatory deaths. Which number in the millions.

Here's what YOUR OWN CITE says about flu deaths, just a couple of paragraphs above.

"The number of seasonal influenza-associated (i.e., seasonal flu-related) deaths varies from year to year because flu seasons are unpredictable and often fluctuate in length and severity. Therefore, a single estimate cannot be used to summarize influenza-associated deaths. Instead, a range of estimated deaths is a better way to represent the variability and unpredictability of flu. CDC estimates that from the 1976-1977 season to the 2006-2007 flu season, flu-associated deaths ranged from a low of about 3,000 to a high of about 49,000 people."

The number I (and Dalko) used of 23,000 is very good ballpark number.

Fauxnews propagandists (probably the source for your "few hundred") are not good sources.
There you are again with that cute quip about "Fauxnews!" That always makes me laugh - I'll bet you are a hit at parties!

The source was actually part of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy Network - Huffington Post Canada:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrenc...b_4661442.html

There are numerous sources cited in the article, and this quote:

Because death certificates belie claims of numerous flu deaths, CDC enlisted computer models to arrive at its 36,000 flu-death estimate. But even here it needed to bend conventional medical terminology to arrive at compelling death numbers.

"Cause-of-death statistics are based solely on the underlying cause of death [internationally defined] as 'the disease or injury which initiated the train of events leading directly to death,'" explains the National Center for Health Statistics. Because the flu was rarely an "underlying cause of death," the CDC created the sound-alike term, "influenza-associated death."

Using this new, loose definition, CDC's computer models could tally people who died of a heart ailment or other causes after having the flu. As William Thompson of the CDC's National Immunization Program admitted, influenza-associated mortality is "a statistical association ... I don't know that we would say that it's the underlying cause of death."

"Fauxnews" - can't wait to use that on my friends!
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      10-28-2014, 09:29 PM   #76
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But the first known human cases of Ebola occurred in 1976 during two simultaneous outbreaks in Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, which sickened more than 600 people, according to the World Health Organization.

Nearly 20 years later, in 2005, researchers looking for the reservoir of Ebola sampled more than 1,000 small animals in the Central African nations of Gabon and the Republic of the Congo, which have also experienced outbreaks of Ebola. They tested 679 bats, 222 birds and 129 small terrestrial vertebrates.

The only animals found to harbor the Ebola virus were bats, specifically, three species of fruit bat: The hammer-headed bat, Franquet's epauletted fruit bat, and the little collared fruit bat.
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      10-29-2014, 10:01 AM   #77
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They didn't sample any humans, we are animals too and seem to be a vessel for the virus.
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      10-30-2014, 09:45 AM   #78
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The CDC has now decided that Ebola CAN be spread by a sneeze, per a poster released this past Friday:

"Droplet spread
happens when germs traveling inside droplets that are
coughed or sneezed from a sick person enter the eyes, nose, or mouth of
another person. Droplets travel short distances, less than 3 feet (1 meter)
from one person to another. A person might also get infected by touching a surface or object that has germs on it and then touching their mouth or nose. Droplet spread diseases include: plague, Ebola."

The poster also says that Ebola can live on hard surfaces

"Clean and disinfect commonly touched surfaces like doorknobs, faucet handles, and toys, since the Ebola virus may live on surfaces for up to several hours."

Note the date at the bottom of the poster is 10/27/2014. So I guess you can get it while sitting on the bus next to someone who has Ebola? And you can get it from touching a turnstile bar, doorknob, bowling ball, restaurant chair, or anything else an infected person has touched? The "science" seems to strongly support a quarantine in the Hot Zone country, no matter what that anti-quarantine CDC nurse in Maine and her team of lawyers are saying.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/inf...r-droplets.pdf
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      10-30-2014, 10:06 AM   #79
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Golly gee whiz, I guess it's really good we put all our trust in the CDC knowing everything and telling us the utmost truth to protect our health, all the time.


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      10-30-2014, 06:20 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
The CDC has now decided that Ebola CAN be spread by a sneeze, per a poster released this past Friday:

"Droplet spread
happens when germs traveling inside droplets that are
coughed or sneezed from a sick person enter the eyes, nose, or mouth of
another person. Droplets travel short distances, less than 3 feet (1 meter)
from one person to another. A person might also get infected by touching a surface or object that has germs on it and then touching their mouth or nose. Droplet spread diseases include: plague, Ebola."

The poster also says that Ebola can live on hard surfaces

"Clean and disinfect commonly touched surfaces like doorknobs, faucet handles, and toys, since the Ebola virus may live on surfaces for up to several hours."

Note the date at the bottom of the poster is 10/27/2014. So I guess you can get it while sitting on the bus next to someone who has Ebola? And you can get it from touching a turnstile bar, doorknob, bowling ball, restaurant chair, or anything else an infected person has touched? The "science" seems to strongly support a quarantine in the Hot Zone country, no matter what that anti-quarantine CDC nurse in Maine and her team of lawyers are saying.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/inf...r-droplets.pdf

I don't actually see any information on the page you referenced.



All the best.
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      10-30-2014, 06:33 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
I don't actually see any information on the page you referenced.



All the best.
Of course bbbbmw gives erroneous web addresses. He has no actual opinions of his own, he just regurgitates what he hears from the talking heads on Faux News. There's no way I would ever expect him to proof his own post.
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      10-30-2014, 11:07 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
I don't actually see any information on the page you referenced.



All the best.
Sorry, I used Firefox, and it displays fine, but not in Internet Explorer for some reason even though it's just a pdf. Here is a link to a copy of the poster (also in pdf, but works in IE):

http://patterico.com/files/2014/10/C...let-Spread.pdf

THIS JUST IN... Apparently the CDC has actually pulled the poster that was released, which is why you don't see it. They won't give a reason why they pulled it:

http://nypost.com/2014/10/30/cdc-pul...ough-a-sneeze/
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      10-30-2014, 11:40 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by SoCal235 View Post
Of course bbbbmw gives erroneous web addresses. He has no actual opinions of his own, he just regurgitates what he hears from the talking heads on Faux News. There's no way I would ever expect him to proof his own post.
You're not nearly as cute as 128Convertible in ripping off the "FauxNews" quote, but thanks for trying!

See the above post, which you could have found with a bit of simple Googling, rather than hurling unjustified insults.
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      10-31-2014, 06:53 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by SoCal235 View Post
Of course bbbbmw gives erroneous web addresses. He has no actual opinions of his own, he just regurgitates what he hears from the talking heads on Faux News. There's no way I would ever expect him to proof his own post.
Although I rarely find concordance with BBBmw's points or lines of argumentation, I think the post above is no better than more than a few of the arguments he often enough posts. It attempts to discredit the poster/author, and by association his/her claims, rather than directly addressing/refuting the points s/he makes with sound reasoning; it's just another fallacious form of argument.

In one regard it's actually worse insofar as it attacks the writer and doesn't even identify a specific point s/he made; thus it crosses the line that delineate ad hominem arguments from insults, regardless of the fact that is' a very mild insult.

No matter how hard we try to post durable links, we have no control over the external links we cite. It's happened before to me and it would be wrong to castigate or disparage someone for having that happen to them as well.

All the best.
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      10-31-2014, 07:59 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Sorry, I used Firefox, and it displays fine, but not in Internet Explorer for some reason even though it's just a pdf. Here is a link to a copy of the poster (also in pdf, but works in IE):

http://patterico.com/files/2014/10/C...let-Spread.pdf

THIS JUST IN... Apparently the CDC has actually pulled the poster that was released, which is why you don't see it. They won't give a reason why they pulled it:

http://nypost.com/2014/10/30/cdc-pul...ough-a-sneeze/

Thanks for the updated link.

I don't believe there is cause to take exception with anything the CDC have said regarding the manner in which Ebola spreads. To the best of my knowledge, they have always averred that it can be spread by contact with bodily fluids. As far as I can tell, coughed up mucous/vapor, urine splashed from the dude standing at the adjacent urinal, or that left behind by the guy who 10 minutes prior used the same urinal one does, whatever, are but bodily fluids that are projected from a body into/onto "stuff"/people nearby. It's the same thing going on as when the sweaty guy at your gym touches a surface that one later touches (within the period of the virus' viability outside a host). The only difference is that the coughed fluids, for example, are forcefully projected rather than oozing from the body.

As for why the CDC pulled the poster, well, it makes perfect sense to me that they did so insofar as the point the poster attempts to make -- that there is a difference between airborne and droplet transference of pathogens -- quite simply is not made given the content of the poster. It says the same thing twice and assigns two different classifications to that very same thing:
  • Airborne spread happens when a germ floats through the air after a person talks, coughs, or sneezes. Germs may land in the eyes, mouth, or nose of another person.
  • Droplet spread happens when germs traveling inside droplets that are coughed or sneezed from a sick person enter the eyes, nose, or mouth of another person. Droplets travel short distances, less than 3 feet (1 meter) from one person to another.
I'm no scientist, doctor, or policy expert regarding the spread and containment of infectious pathogens, but I don't need to be. I need only have a reasonable command of English to see that the content in those two bullet points differs only in the label assigned to classify each description. By the information in the poster, "airborne" and "droplet" transmission are the same thing.

I can't say I'm privy to the specific circumstances that allowed the public to view that poster, but I am certain that a gap in the management of information flows exists. Does that mean I'm of a mind to lambaste the CDC over it? No, it doesn't because:
  • For better or for worse, the CDC is who we have available to deal with these sorts of things.
  • My standard of performance and expectations of my government doesn't call for perfection; it calls for best and/or reasonable, "in good faith" efforts. I realize that in even the most dire of circumstances -- and the Ebola in the U.S. matter is not one of them -- perfection isn't achievable.
  • Doing that sort of thing directs resources away from dealing with the thing that matters. It's stupid to stand there figuring out who started the fire while one's house burns. Put out the fire first and help the folks who are trying to do so, even if that help means on simply stays the f*ck out of their way. After the fire is out, if one must, then is the appropriate time to worry about how it started and who's to blame.
I don't there's anything political about the poster or that there's a political point to be made of it. It's just stupid and confusing and very clearly a mistake. I believe it to be a mistake rather than prevarication because the CDC have absolutely nothing to gain by misleading the public regarding a communicable disease that can kill. Regardless of what one may think about the current or past federal administrations, none of them have or had any intention to effectively cull the citizenry.

All the best.
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Tony

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      10-31-2014, 02:00 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
You're not nearly as cute as 128Convertible in ripping off the "FauxNews" quote
Disagree, as I often do. <grin>.
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      10-31-2014, 02:01 PM   #87
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"A Maine judge has rejected a bid by state health officials to restrict the movement of nurse Kaci Hickox, who defied a quarantine for medical workers who have treated Ebola patients.

Judge Charles C. LaVerdiere ruled Friday that she should continue daily monitoring and coordinate travel with state officials so monitoring can continue. But, because she's not showing symptoms, the judge says she's not infectious."
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

A man who respects the medical experts, and the civil liberties of Americans. Number of ordinary Americans infected with Ebola by casual contact, even with a patient who was symptomatic. ZERO.

Ebola is not very contagious. The obvious way it would become a threat here is if it becomes rampant throughout Africa. Discouraging health care workers from going and helping prevent that, with unjustified quarantines, does not decrease risk here, it increases risk here. We don't need to fight Ebola where it isn't, we need to fight it where it is. Politicians and journalists who are trying to fan the flames of fear here are doing you no favor.

Get your flu shot, that's a real risk to everyone. Thousands die of it every year.

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      10-31-2014, 03:57 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
"A Maine judge has rejected a bid by state health officials to restrict the movement of nurse Kaci Hickox, who defied a quarantine for medical workers who have treated Ebola patients.

Judge Charles C. LaVerdiere ruled Friday that she should continue daily monitoring and coordinate travel with state officials so monitoring can continue. But, because she's not showing symptoms, the judge says she's not infectious."
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

A man who respects the medical experts, and the civil liberties of Americans. Number of ordinary Americans infected with Ebola by casual contact, even with a patient who was symptomatic. ZERO.

Ebola is not very contagious. The obvious way it would become a threat here is if it becomes rampant throughout Africa. Discouraging health care workers from going and helping prevent that, with unjustified quarantines, does not decrease risk here, it increases risk here. We don't need to fight Ebola where it isn't, we need to fight it where it is. Politicians and journalists who are trying to fan the flames of fear here are doing you no favor.

Get your flu shot, that's a real risk to everyone. Thousands die of it every year.
Please stop repeating Ron Klain's talking points. You sound like a broken record. That stuff about the flu shot is especially asinine. People have little cause for concern with the Flu with today's medicine.

The judge left certain restrictions in place. I think everyone, including Maine's governor, is aware that this nurse is not displaying any symptoms of infection. The state of Maine was quarantining her to keep her under observation in an isolated manner as a precaution. Remember that 21 day observation period discussed by the World Health Organization?

Quote:
Charles LaVerdiere, chief judge of Maine District Court, in an earlier temporary order dated on Thursday had instructed Hickox to avoid "public places" like shopping centers and maintain a 3-foot (1-meter) distance from others at the state's request.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0II1SP20141031

I wonder why he did that?

Edit: I still can't believe you're a scientist. Most of your discourse on this subject has been anything but scientific....you didn't even know Ebola was a contagious disease!

What is your area of focus?

Last edited by Dalko43; 10-31-2014 at 04:11 PM..
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