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      10-31-2014, 06:14 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
1. Please stop repeating Ron Klain's talking points. You sound like a broken record. 2. That stuff about the flu shot is especially asinine. People have little cause for concern with the Flu with today's medicine. 3. You didn't even know Ebola was contagious.
1. It's hardly "Ron Klain's talking point". It's the considered view of a large majority of doctors who are recognized infectious disease experts. I'm sure you can find one to oppose it, maybe even a few. But you're going to have to dig hard.

2. Based on actual facts, that's what's wrong. By your numbers, about 23,000 people die each year from the flu, with today's medical treatment, the vast majority of who acquired it in this country. Of course that's the US medical system, which, compared to the rest of the developed world, is an also ran.

NOT ONE person has died from Ebola acquired in this country.

3. You actually expect people to believe I didn't know Ebola was "contagious"? What I said was it was not very contagious. And it's not.

NOT ONE person has acquired Ebola in this country other than by being a health care professional actively treating a seriously symptomatic Ebola patient in a hospital.

Like Fauxnews, you're simply ignoring facts. I'm going to be a broken record. It's simply not smart to fight Ebola where it isn't, and especially when your methods damage the fight against Ebola where it actually is. Kaci Hickox was not quarantined in some high tech isolation center. Chris Christie put her in a tent, with no ventilation, and a cardboard box for a toilet.

That's not my view, not Ron Klain's view. Neither of us pretend to be experts on this. It's the view of a large majority of the recognized experts. Including Doctors Without Borders, who tried to warn us about Ebola many months ago, and were ignored.

"Thus far, MSF (aka Doctors Without Borders) has had great fortune finding people willing to go to West Africa to fight Ebola. They have set aside fears, reassured their families, and obtained leave from their ordinary responsibilities to join us. This speaks to the character and commitment of the people who work with us—people like Dr. Spencer and Kaci Hickox. If they are discouraged by the prospect of three weeks of near total isolation on their return, we may lose the services of many good people. That will damage the effort to counter the outbreak at its epicenter, which remains the best way to protect the public at large, in any country."

Dr. Armand Sprecher is a Public Health Specialist at Médecins Sans Frontières in Brussels.

You asked before if a certain argument made sense to me. That one, from a highly credible non-political source, very much does. Imposing an onerous quarantine on healthy people who've behaved heroically and selflessly does not make sense to me.

Last edited by 128Convertibleguy; 10-31-2014 at 06:39 PM..
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      10-31-2014, 07:06 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
1. It's hardly "Ron Klain's talking point". It's the considered view of a large majority of doctors........
You never answered my question. What kind of scientist are you?

You have already made several false claims, I wouldn't be surprised if you were lying about being a scientist as well.
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      11-01-2014, 11:13 AM   #91
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You never answered my question. What kind of scientist are you?

You have already made several false claims, I wouldn't be surprised if you were lying about being a scientist as well.
To quote a great American, soon to be President, what does it matter? I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm asking you to believe the experts, instead of unscrupulous journalists and politicians fanning fear for their own purposes. I'm not using my personal views as data, I'm using well known facts.

I guess you want to see my diplomas? Think I born in Kenya, too? Your real name wouldn't be Donald, by any chance? <grin>

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      11-01-2014, 11:20 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
Want to see my diplomas? Think I born in Kenya, too? <grin>
Not a very subtle attempt on your part to side track this conversation, but no, I'm not a 'birther fanatic' if that's what you meant to imply (with regards to you or certain US presidents).

I am just interested in hearing about your background/experience in the scientific community. A lot of your posts have contained rhetoric that had previously originated from some left-leaning pundits, and some were in direct contradiction to established scientific facts.

I have a hard time believing that a professional scientist would say some of things which you have said.
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      11-01-2014, 02:52 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
some were in direct contradiction to established scientific facts.

I have a hard time believing that a professional scientist would say some of things which you have said.
What things?

How would you propose I "prove" to you I'm a professional scientist? (and a rather well qualified one at that. the term "degrees" above was accurate) That's where the birther rhetoric came in. It was transparently clear that no proof would satisfy Donald Trump. Once the birth certificate was well established he switched to college transcripts.

I have no intention of jumping through hoops for you. I really don't care what you think about me, the strength of my positions relies not on my qualifications but on the experts and abundant easily verified data.

For what it's worth here's my "proof". When challenged on 50,000 flu deaths (which turned out to be the high end of the range) I retreated, first to your 23,000, which is a decent average. Now my statement is "thousands", which is very conservative, and accurately represents the variability in the data.

When my numbers are wrong or misleading I do additional research, and come up with more accurate ones. That's science. Show me where you've done the same.

Last edited by 128Convertibleguy; 11-01-2014 at 02:58 PM..
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      11-01-2014, 06:41 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
To quote a great American, soon to be President, what does it matter? I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm asking you to believe the experts, instead of unscrupulous journalists and politicians fanning fear for their own purposes. I'm not using my personal views as data, I'm using well known facts.

I guess you want to see my diplomas? Think I born in Kenya, too? Your real name wouldn't be Donald, by any chance? <grin>
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      11-01-2014, 06:45 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
What things?

How would you propose I "prove" to you I'm a professional scientist? (and a rather well qualified one at that. the term "degrees" above was accurate) That's where the birther rhetoric came in. It was transparently clear that no proof would satisfy Donald Trump. Once the birth certificate was well established he switched to college transcripts.

I have no intention of jumping through hoops for you. I really don't care what you think about me, the strength of my positions relies not on my qualifications but on the experts and abundant easily verified data.

For what it's worth here's my "proof". When challenged on 50,000 flu deaths (which turned out to be the high end of the range) I retreated, first to your 23,000, which is a decent average. Now my statement is "thousands", which is very conservative, and accurately represents the variability in the data.

When my numbers are wrong or misleading I do additional research, and come up with more accurate ones. That's science. Show me where you've done the same.

I feel your pain, 128 and this is what it feels like:

All the best
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      11-05-2014, 09:05 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
I am just interested in hearing about your background/experience in the scientific community. A lot of your posts have contained rhetoric that had previously originated from some left-leaning pundits, and some were in direct contradiction to established scientific facts.

I have a hard time believing that a professional scientist would say some of things which you have said.
His scientific background is non-existent. Although he is apparently very efficient at frantically searching Google for whatever supports his opinion, then posting it as fact.

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Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
I feel your pain, 128 and this is what it feels like:

All the best
Please, you provide nothing of substance in anything you post. The word hypocrisy comes to mind. Keep up with the nonsense though, maybe you'll get banned again.
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      11-05-2014, 10:00 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
What things?
When my numbers are wrong or misleading I do additional research, and come up with more accurate ones. That's science. Show me where you've done the same.
All the scientists I have read about do their research beforehand, in order to confirm (or at least reinforce) their theories/hypothesis before publishing them. That's science as I understand it.

Considering that all you had to do was conduct a few google searches to confirm some fairly basic facts concerning the Ebola virus and the Flu, and considering you got some of those basic facts wrong, I'm somewhat confused at how you can be proficient at a job that requires extensive and deliberate testing, experimentation, and research in order to prove or disprove theories.

Maybe you are a scientist, and who am I to pry into your personal life. I'm just letting you know that your lack of fact-checking throughout this whole conversation isn't projecting that image.
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      11-05-2014, 10:20 AM   #98
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Considering that all you had to do was conduct a few google searches to confirm some fairly basic facts concerning the Ebola virus and the Flu
Simply ridiculous. I said Ebola wasn't very contagious, and it's not. I didn't have a precise flu death number at my fingertips, and didn't think it was that important. I mistakenly quoted the top of the range for flu deaths, 50,000, and the average is more like 23,000. Big Fine Deal.

But the bigger thing is, quibbles like these don't matter to the discussion. The validity of the core points remains, and they come directly from medical experts.

Ebola represents a very small risk to the person on the street. NO ONE has gotten it in America except two medical personnel actively treating seriously ill Ebola patients at one hospital, which almost certainly wasn't doing a good job of protecting them. Even people who lived with a symptomatic Ebola patient didn't get it.

We need to fight the disease where it is, not where it isn't. Onerous quarantines of healthy medical personnel returning from Africa are counterproductive. The easiest way for Ebola to become more threatening here is for it to spread throughout Africa, and discouraging doctors and nurses from volunteering there is insanity.

The best idea I've seen to reduce the threat of Ebola here is this. Compensate any medical volunteers going to Africa for all lost wages. Guarantee them the finest medical care available, free of charge, if they do become ill.

And the flu is still a far greater threat. Some thoughtful media people, not trying to fan the flames of fear, have broadcast that, a real public service.

Get your flu shot.

Last edited by 128Convertibleguy; 11-05-2014 at 10:37 AM..
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      11-05-2014, 10:43 AM   #99
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We need to change the title of this thread to "@128Convertibleguy's Soapbox."
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      11-05-2014, 10:47 AM   #100
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We need to change the title of this thread to "@128Convertibleguy's Soapbox."
You couldn't get that from the actual title and the first post? <grin>
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      11-20-2014, 07:13 PM   #101
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http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...41120?irpc=932

If it's not that contagious, why grant them deportation protection?
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      11-20-2014, 08:54 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...41120?irpc=932

If it's not that contagious, why grant them deportation protection?
In a nation with awful sanitation and medical care, it is that contagious. They don't have the proper hospitals. They don't have the proper treatments. They don't even have people with protective equipment to pick up the bodies safely.

Completely irrelevant to what you have to worry about in the US. The important facts are these. NOT ONE person has gotten Ebola from casual contact in the US. Even those who lived with the first Ebola victim in this country while he was symptomatic. The two victims who died here both got the disease in Africa, and were in awful shape when they arrived here.

I would suggest you don't travel to West Africa. Leave that to the heroic medical volunteers, who are fighting to stop Ebola where it is, so we won't have to worry about where it isn't.

Last edited by 128Convertibleguy; 11-20-2014 at 09:01 PM..
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      11-21-2014, 08:46 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
To quote a great American, soon to be President...
I don't think you paid attention to this last election cycle or to the polls for the upcoming one. She has made one political flub after another in her "pre-campaign" campaign. She has little chance of winning her party's primary, much less the national election.

If she were even half the politician that her husband was, she might have a chance, but she's not.

Edit: Also please feel free to elaborate on how this 'soon-to-be' president is a great American. What has she done for America?
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      11-21-2014, 04:16 PM   #104
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She has little chance of winning her party's primary, much less the national election.
You know why Republicans have no credibility? They make things up out of thin air, and simply ignore facts. To an utterly absurd degree.

Clinton has little chance of winning the nomination? Right, she's only up in the polls by FIFTY POINTS.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...tion-3824.html

And who are the Republicans going to run against her? Her poll advantages against the known possibilities range from 10-20 points. The ten point ones are known for conservative bias, Fauxnews, Rasmussen, etc.

President Clinton. It will be easy to say for you, you've had eight years practice. <grin> It will be historic. The first husband/wife.
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      11-21-2014, 06:12 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
You know why Republicans have no credibility? They make things up out of thin air, and simply ignore facts. To an utterly absurd degree.

Clinton has little chance of winning the nomination? Right, she's only up in the polls by FIFTY POINTS.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...tion-3824.html

And who are the Republicans going to run against her? Her poll advantages against the known possibilities range from 10-20 points. The ten point ones are known for conservative bias, Fauxnews, Rasmussen, etc.

President Clinton. It will be easy to say for you, you've had eight years practice. <grin> It will be historic. The first husband/wife.

Right because polls 2 years ahead of an election mean so much.


Also, since no major Republican (or Democrat excluding Hillary) has declared his/her intent to run for 16 election, why would you expect them to have any weight in the polls? Hillary is the only one who has declared her intent to run, so if anyone would lead in the polls it would be her.

I think you are far too eager, and unrealistic, about her campaign platform (which has been heavily scrutinized even by her own liberal audience).

I think Americans are sick of US Presidents with little to no executive experience, and Hillary falls within that category.
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