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      09-04-2021, 12:51 PM   #1
Mako
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why does I4 weight so much?

this is one huge reason I haven't ordered one yet.

Not just compared to Tesla, I know nicer interior materials weigh more, but what about compared to the Porsche Taycan? that thing is a lot bigger (6" longer) and weighs the same and you can't tell me BMW is using better materials than Porsche

Porsche Taycan 4s (standard battery) is 4770 with a similar battery and 195.4"

BMW is 4,880 lbs and 188"
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      09-04-2021, 01:56 PM   #2
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One has a dedicated EV platform, the other does not.
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      09-05-2021, 02:11 AM   #3
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It is pretty surprising that it weighs more than a 3 motor Model S Plaid, or a 7 series! I guess the only advantage would be in an accident with a lighter car.

Last edited by hotrod182; 09-05-2021 at 10:44 AM..
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      09-05-2021, 09:38 AM   #4
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Motors do not weigh all that much, nether does the more premium interior. Like many others I am having trouble choosing. To me the negatives of the BMW is the weight, limited back seat headroom, and for right now not knowing what options are available and are included. Once the ordering guide is available for the USA, I'll decide. Tesla 3 and Y are the other options although I've been a BMW owner for over 20 years.
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      09-05-2021, 11:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsilver View Post
Motors do not weigh all that much, nether does the more premium interior. Like many others I am having trouble choosing. To me the negatives of the BMW is the weight, limited back seat headroom, and for right now not knowing what options are available and are included. Once the ordering guide is available for the USA, I'll decide. Tesla 3 and Y are the other options although I've been a BMW owner for over 20 years.
I ran away from Tesla after leasing a Model 3. Tesla is a technology company that makes cars (poorly, I might add, as they are not necessarily known for their upstanding quality control for a vehicle at a $50,000 - $120,000 price point), whereas BMW is a luxury car company that makes luxury cars.

Tesla is only interested in you to buy a car. After youve given them what they want, you drop off their radar. Issue with the car? Better work around them to get it fixed. E.g. no weekend appointments, no valet service, no loaner vehicle, etc.

I wanted a Tesla so badly coming from three Cadillacs and an Audi and when I finally got one, after the honeymoon phase wore off, I realized how poorly built my Model 3 was and how unwilling Tesla was to helping me whatsoever that I ended my lease early to get into my BMW. They soured my feeling toward Tesla in just 1.5 years of driving a Model 3 after wanting a Tesla for so long.

Its truly a shame. But just wanted to give some perspective since you mention 20 years of driving BMWsa Tesla is no BMW. Its not even comparable to a Chevrolet honestly, as at least the door panels on a Chevy align.
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      09-06-2021, 03:26 AM   #6
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Take a 4 series, drop off the engine and drivetrain. Add a battery and a couple of electric motors together with all the fat wiring. Replace some essential components such as AC and so.

Thats how you get this weight.

And you probably can't even make all of that as lightweight as you could, because you want to go for some driving dynamics. You need to preserve the weight balance of the car, so you need to put some heavy components in the front where gas engine used to sit.


And how to reduce it? First rework the chassis, design and materials. Then the battery. Then make everything lighter, all the components, wire harnessses and everything.

Reusing existing chassis and components makes this difficult.
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      09-06-2021, 10:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnaukkar View Post
Take a 4 series, drop off the engine and drivetrain. Add a battery and a couple of electric motors together with all the fat wiring. Replace some essential components such as AC and so.

Thats how you get this weight.

And you probably can't even make all of that as lightweight as you could, because you want to go for some driving dynamics. You need to preserve the weight balance of the car, so you need to put some heavy components in the front where gas engine used to sit.


And how to reduce it? First rework the chassis, design and materials. Then the battery. Then make everything lighter, all the components, wire harnessses and everything.

Reusing existing chassis and components makes this difficult.
Exactly! The others started as an electric platform with a skateboard chassis and the batteries are an integral part of the structure. The I4 probably reuse the 4 series chassis.
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      09-06-2021, 11:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramirj2 View Post
Exactly! The others started as an electric platform with a skateboard chassis and the batteries are an integral part of the structure. The I4 probably reuse the 4 series chassis.
Pretty sure that's exactly what they did right down to including the floor pan tunnel for the driveshaft. At least they stuffed some batteries in that space! My understanding is the battery is used as a chassis stiffening component in the i4.
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      09-06-2021, 12:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamisle View Post
I ran away from Tesla after leasing a Model 3. Tesla is a technology company that makes cars (poorly......
Thanks for the info. Is seems as Tesla build quality really is hit or miss, but the interior still is a bit spartan for a 60K car. My son has a very early edition 3, and he has had very little problems with it. The lack of service and support from Tesla is a factor as well because if you have even a small problem, it can become a big one.

My understanding on Tesla build quality, the very early ones were literally hand built, thus came out with few problems. Ramping to higher production rates yielded the worst build quality. Once they reach steady state it should start getting better.
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      09-07-2021, 08:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramirj2 View Post
Exactly! The others started as an electric platform with a skateboard chassis and the batteries are an integral part of the structure. The I4 probably reuse the 4 series chassis.
The 3/4 family was design to be ICE, Hybrid or EV. It's a common platform.

But I would never buy a Tesla.

1. No leather! For $60K! My daughter's Chevy Bolt has leather.
2. I live in the SF Bay Area and everywhere you turn there is a Tesla
3. Their build quality sucks compared to a traditional car manufacturer. It's not a BMW build or even a Chevy build. Inconsistent panel gaps. Crappy paint.
4. Supply chain and repairs. I had a friend wait two months to get his window repaired when it got broken.
5. On a Model 3, everything done via the stupid screen in the middle. Did I mention on the Model 3, there is nothing in front of you and it requires you to look toward the middle?

Pass. Pass. Pass.

Waiting to configure my i4 M50.
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Last edited by techwhiz1; 09-08-2021 at 01:27 PM..
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      09-08-2021, 02:25 PM   #11
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Large rear hatchback weighs a lot. Look at the regular GGC 440i performance stats vs 340i and it's a bit 0.2s slower or so to 60.
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      09-08-2021, 07:16 PM   #12
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i4 is heavier than Tesla, but having seen how BMW deals with weight, I'm hopeful that it will still drive like a classic sport saloon BMW. I mean, X5M for instance, is a proof for that.
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      09-13-2021, 01:49 PM   #13
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Two words: bad design.
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      09-13-2021, 05:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
Two words: bad design.
What's a bad design?
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      09-13-2021, 06:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamisle View Post
I ran away from Tesla after leasing a Model 3. Tesla is a technology company that makes cars (poorly, I might add, as they are not necessarily known for their upstanding quality control for a vehicle at a $50,000 - $120,000 price point), whereas BMW is a luxury car company that makes luxury cars.

Tesla is only interested in you to buy a car. After youve given them what they want, you drop off their radar. Issue with the car? Better work around them to get it fixed. E.g. no weekend appointments, no valet service, no loaner vehicle, etc.

I wanted a Tesla so badly coming from three Cadillacs and an Audi and when I finally got one, after the honeymoon phase wore off, I realized how poorly built my Model 3 was and how unwilling Tesla was to helping me whatsoever that I ended my lease early to get into my BMW. They soured my feeling toward Tesla in just 1.5 years of driving a Model 3 after wanting a Tesla for so long.

Its truly a shame. But just wanted to give some perspective since you mention 20 years of driving BMWsa Tesla is no BMW. Its not even comparable to a Chevrolet honestly, as at least the door panels on a Chevy align.
My thought at this point is that Tesla is a software company figuring how to build cars, while BMW is a car company catching up on software.

I did have a Model 3 on order early this year, but Tesla had no car for me when I needed one, so I test drove a G20 and bought one 2 days later.
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      09-13-2021, 09:10 PM   #16
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It’s actually pretty simple: the I4’s weight is a result of its designers’ and manufacturer’s inexperience with EV platforms.

The good (?) thing is that BMW isn’t alone in this - all of the legacy manufacturers’ current EV offerings are overweight compared to the state-of-the-art EV chassis on the market, and this has nothing to do with crashworthiness or luxury trappings.

They’ll figure it out, eventually.

Last edited by ZCD1; 09-13-2021 at 09:16 PM..
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      09-14-2021, 02:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
It’s actually pretty simple: the I4’s weight is a result of its designers’ and manufacturer’s inexperience with EV platforms.

The good (?) thing is that BMW isn’t alone in this - all of the legacy manufacturers’ current EV offerings are overweight compared to the state-of-the-art EV chassis on the market, and this has nothing to do with crashworthiness or luxury trappings.

They’ll figure it out, eventually.
Inexperience? You know they've been making EV's since 2009? It's a design choice to create models that customers can purchase with whatever drivetrain they'd like, petrol/diesel/PHEV or BEV. Which I think is a better strategy than creating futuristic BEV-only models. It does take a hit on weight, but opens up a much bigger market for a model than for instance a Tesla model 3.

Last edited by fsfikke; 09-14-2021 at 02:47 AM..
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      09-14-2021, 08:57 AM   #18
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My thought at this point is that Tesla is a software company figuring how to build cars, while BMW is a car company catching up on software.
I agree! Without question Tesla has the upper hand on software. However for me many of those lines of code are a waste. I do not need a car to fart nor play video games.

Tesla would do much better as a car company to spend more time on build quality. You should try to avoid getting one built at the end of the quarter when they have their many production pushes. That along with the spartan interior of a $50K+ car and lack of apple car play has me looking at the i4. The poor service support of Tesla is another factor.

The weight of the i4 is a minor issue. The i4 40 weights nearly 900 lbs more than my 335D, which was already a heavy car, similar in performance. With the weight being so low in the i4, BMW can easily make the car perform like a BMW. The driver will likely pay for that weight in tire wear and slightly less efficiency.
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      09-14-2021, 10:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsfikke View Post
Inexperience? You know they've been making EV's since 2009? It's a design choice to create models that customers can purchase with whatever drivetrain they'd like, petrol/diesel/PHEV or BEV. Which I think is a better strategy than creating futuristic BEV-only models. It does take a hit on weight, but opens up a much bigger market for a model than for instance a Tesla model 3.
I also am amused at all the self-proclaimed expert automotive body and structural engineers we have on this forum! I have yet to see a comparable tear-down comparison which reveals weight of the actual platform (floorpan, cowl, front rails, etc.), weight of batteries, weight of body-in-white (steel vs aluminum sheetmetal for others?), weight of body hardware (hatch?), etc. All the armchair quarterback engineers here can pontificate on how BMW could have done "better". I am content to wait and see the evidence once presented.
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      09-14-2021, 11:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
It is pretty surprising that it weighs more than a 3 motor Model S Plaid, or a 7 series! I guess the only advantage would be in an accident with a lighter car.
The 7 series uses carbon fiber and aluminum and high strength steel.
I think the 5 series has also moved to a "carbon core".

THe 3 series does not use carbon fiber in the core.
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      09-14-2021, 01:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsilver View Post
The weight of the i4 is a minor issue. The i4 40 weights nearly 900 lbs more than my 335D, which was already a heavy car, similar in performance. With the weight being so low in the i4, BMW can easily make the car perform like a BMW. The driver will likely pay for that weight in tire wear and slightly less efficiency.
I think Tesla's hardware edge right now is the dedicated EV platform that other automakers are catching up on.

I would think 900lbs extra is a disadvantage in terms of range and operating cost.

E.g. 900lbs less can squeeze extra 100 miles of range, and/or 4-5 miles/kWh instead of 3 miles.

I am very interested in Tesla's 4680, at 5x density it can reduce battery by at least 50% and/or increase range by 2x.
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      09-14-2021, 01:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
It’s actually pretty simple: the I4’s weight is a result of its designers’ and manufacturer’s inexperience with EV platforms.
It appears Tesla takes a shortcut in its chassis design by including metal jackets of 6k+ cells as chassis reinforcement, and that is why Tesla cannot solve battery thermal runaway.

Other manufacturers take the prudent route by building reinforced partitions around the battery for safety, at the expense of weight.

It is true I4 also has the disadvantage of being shared chassis, but my guess is that the battery safety enclosures also add extra weights.
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